Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Taeldrin Laesrash 04-09-08, 12:20 AM	http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080407a&authentic=true (I'd post the whole thing for the non-Insiders, but it's rather long) Looks pretty neat to me.
Tequila_Sunrise 04-09-08, 01:34 AM	I'm no expert on binder balance, but I love that Eyton didn't come up with some bogus and absurdly broken "epic binding" mechanic. It looks good, though with 4e around the corner I'm surprised that WotC would pay a designer to write up an article on such a relatively obscure topic. TS PS I'd still like an explanation of why vestige levels stop at 8, instead of 10 or the traditional 9. My best theory is that the designers roll a d10 in front of the lead designer every time a new magic class is made. *C'mon, papa needs the first class with 10 magic levels ever!*
Avatar of Kokusho 04-09-08, 07:57 AM	I am officially a happy person. I have been playing a binder in a campaign going to epic soon, and I was wondering what to do...my homebrew vestiges are quite similar in power to the ones created there, and the feats are pretty nice. Good job, and thanks for sharing!
herrdoktor 04-09-08, 08:56 AM	pretty decent article. i'm glad they made it. the signs could have been a bit more 'epic,' though - amun-her khepeshef's greatly resembles leraje's (a 1st level vestige :lol: ) tkhaluuljin's is cool also, gaia's inflence seems a little weird (oddly formatted, possibly contradictory - like it was meant as a placeholder idea).
Scorpions_are_cool_ 04-09-08, 05:18 PM	Yes! I love all the classes from Tome of Magic but the Binder is my favourite! I'm glad they came out with this support, my Binder is only level three since I usually DM but he'll get to epic one day. :) Does this progression compare to the ones in the epic level handbook? I think so. Hopefully we'll get some support for the Shadowcaster and Truenamer, that would be amazing! Although Tome of Shadow is and amazing resource, there are no epic utterances for the Truenamer anywhere!
EytanBernstein 04-09-08, 08:17 PM	I'm no expert on binder balance, but I love that Eyton didn't come up with some bogus and absurdly broken "epic binding" mechanic. It looks good, though with 4e around the corner I'm surprised that WotC would pay a designer to write up an article on such a relatively obscure topic. TS PS I'd still like an explanation of why vestige levels stop at 8, instead of 10 or the traditional 9. My best theory is that the designers roll a d10 in front of the lead designer every time a new magic class is made. *C'mon, papa needs the first class with 10 magic levels ever!* I did this one a while ago, actually. A lot just depends on when things get into editing and art and when there is room in the schedule.
Omen_of_Peace 04-10-08, 03:56 AM	Good job, Eytan. Thanks ! :)
Tequila_Sunrise 04-10-08, 05:50 PM	I did this one a while ago, actually. A lot just depends on when things get into editing and art and when there is room in the schedule. Ah, I see. Well great job on this material in any case! TS
runestar 04-10-08, 07:43 PM	The article seems problematic. The guidelines are essentially suggesting that allowing gate or wish at-will is less powerful than a quickened magic missile once every 5 rounds?:confused:
Asparagas 04-12-08, 02:26 AM	Hi Am I the only one that can't find the binding check DCs for this epic Vestiges? If sign and influence can't be circumvented this doesn't sound so good. ----------- "Do not meddle in the affair of wizards, for thou art combustible and conduct electricity"
GlassGEO 04-12-08, 11:29 PM	Is it just me or does Zuriels ability to use tensers Transformation kinda fall a little short at Epic levels? Who, at Epic levels, as a binder won't allready have at least +4 Enhancement to Str, Dex and Con? And sure, it ups your BaB....but as a wizard spell it effectively doubles your Attack. A binder allready has 3/4 Attack progression.
Omen_of_Peace 04-15-08, 09:44 AM	It's still +5 to attack and "+4 natural armor bonus to AC, a +5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons" as a swift action. Not bad at all since it doesn't restrict (Su) abilities at all.
Taeldrin Laesrash 04-15-08, 09:15 PM	Plus, at higher levels the Epic BAB makes the bonus even more worth it. At 40th level that's a good +15 for a fight.
AmadiTheGreat 04-16-08, 08:29 AM	Yeah, the article is well written and everything, but one thing strikes my eye: At will or constant abilities should be the equivalent of 7th-9th level spells, though some lower level spells are still appropriate. So they are suggesting Time Stop as SLA at will? Really?
Avatar of Kokusho 04-16-08, 09:19 PM	They'd better not. Time Stop at will makes baby kittens sad.
The_Cheeseman 04-16-08, 09:28 PM	I think we can agree that calling out obviously broken spells like time stop, gate, and wish as examples does not nullify the wisdom of the guideline.
runestar 04-19-08, 01:06 AM	I think we can agree that calling out obviously broken spells like time stop, gate, and wish as examples does not nullify the wisdom of the guideline. Nor does it explain why the designers felt that an empowered, maximized, quickened magic missile spell (averaging just 34 damage as a swift action) needs to be limited to once every 3-4 rounds. Seems to defeat the purpose of a guideline if we still end up having to evaluate each and every spell on its own merit.
Omen_of_Peace 04-19-08, 06:27 AM	The problem is with the spells more than with the guidelines. How can they give guidelines valid for 1000+ spells ? Time Stop and Freedom are not equal.
runestar 04-19-08, 06:58 AM	The problem is with the spells more than with the guidelines. How can they give guidelines valid for 1000+ spells ? Time Stop and Freedom are not equal. In the very least, they could have given examples commensurate with the guidelines they had in mind, or fleshed them out more completely, so we can at least have a rough gauge of the sort of power level they were envisioning. A quickened forcecage would have sounded so much better. For example, they suggest that tenser's transformation is okay to allow at-will, yet with Zuriel, you are limited up to 1 round/lv. Mass heal is apparently balanced as a 1/5 rounds ability. It still seems like a hit and miss prospect. Even with the guidelines.
Charade 04-20-08, 10:20 AM	I agree with you Runestar, the Bronze body power is almost more fitting for an 8th level vestige. I would like to say however, that Zuriel is very well made overall and his abilities scale better than most other vestiges. Ultimate sacrifice+ Shield Self = Win!
AmadiTheGreat 04-22-08, 02:09 PM	For example, they suggest that tenser's transformation is okay to allow at-will, yet with Zuriel, you are limited up to 1 round/lv.[/QUOTE] Zuriel activates it as a swift action, which is huge. Zuriel + The one whose name is hard to spell (Amun-Her Khepeshef or something..) are a great pair. "I take damage from you. I go to -4000. No matter, i won't die." :D
runestar 04-22-08, 10:37 PM	Zuriel activates it as a swift action, which is huge. If it was at will, I would just refresh it every few rounds. Which then makes it equivalent to an "always on" ability. Though I would enforce that it does not grant bab past lv20, so you get +5bab at most from it, same as an epic fighter.:) Zuriel + The one whose name is hard to spell (Amun-Her Khepeshef or something..) are a great pair. "I take damage from you. I go to -4000. No matter, i won't die." And if you do die, true res no longer costs anything in epic thanks to ignore material components...:cool: