Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pitiless_Interfector 06-27-07, 04:24 PM	I've been wondering this for a long time: If you take Tenacious Magic (permanency), does that mean that any effect you create with the spell gets the benefit; i.e. a permanent invisibility/arcane sight/shrink item/gust of wind/wall of fire effect that gets dispelled instead merely winks out for 1d4 rounds? Because it seems like this feat might make permanency actually useful at epic levels, where XP costs below 5,000 XP are significantly less detrimental.
bluemage55 06-27-07, 07:36 PM	Sort of. When you cast permanency on yourself, after using, say, read magic, there will actually be two spells runnning on you at all times: read magic and permanency. If read magic is brought down, you lose the effect. If permanency is brought down, the read magic's duration goes back to normal and runs out normally. This means that if you want Tenacious permanent spells, you must have Tenacious Magic for both permanency and whatever spell you are making permanent.
rob_douglas 06-27-07, 11:44 PM	The way I read it, Permanency doesn't really exist - it is the original spell that has its duration made permanent. If you are subject to a Dispel Magic, you don't check against the Permanency AND the base spell, just against the on-going base spell. So I believe you need to have Tenacious Magic (Read Magic) to protect Permanency (Read Magic) and again for each other Permanent spell. Tenacious Magic (Permanency) does nothing at all. ROB
Tomkin 06-27-07, 11:54 PM	No, permanency has a duration of Permanent, meaning that it can also be dispelled. If Permanency had a duration of Instantaneous, then it would be impossible to dispel it, but as written it can be dispelled. So you would have to take Tenacious Magic in both of them, and then hope that the duration of your arcane sight didn't get taken off in 1d4-round chunks. Not that that's an issue when your spell lasts 300 rounds, though, so really it's just an extra feat. Remember also that some uses of permanency cannot be dispelled if the caster is of a lower level than you were when you cast the spell.
rob_douglas 06-28-07, 01:27 AM	Its duration is "Permanent; see text" The text makes it clear that it makes the base spell permanent - not as long as permanency lasts, but forever. Do you really roll Dispel checks for Permanent spells twice, once for the effect, and once for the Permanency - making them really have 2 chances to be dispelled (since the duration of the base spell is likely to already have expired, so if you dispel Permaneny, the base spell will go away (you don't start counting duration from the moment it is no longer permanent) and again if you actually get the base spell). Because that is the implication of your and Blue's interpretation. ROB
bluemage55 06-28-07, 04:29 AM	Do you really roll Dispel checks for Permanent spells twice, once for the effect, and once for the Permanency - making them really have 2 chances to be dispelled (since the duration of the base spell is likely to already have expired, so if you dispel Permaneny, the base spell will go away (you don't start counting duration from the moment it is no longer permanent) and again if you actually get the base spell). Because that is the implication of your and Blue's interpretation. That's actually what I've been doing. It matters when permanency goes down, but see invisibility is still up. I start counting the duration of see invisibility then. However, I do see your interpretation of it.
hawkinsthedm 06-28-07, 11:52 AM	Though I agree with Rob's interpretation, I think if you were to have to make two dispel attempts, I think you would have to dispel the permanency first, and then whatever spell it is holding in place.
Liox 07-20-07, 01:27 PM	Nature of Permanency The Nature of Permanecy is that has certain limitations. Not so to the duration but essentially the spell itself is self containing and works as a component and acts as an effect instead of existing. Hence, I cannot cast a TimeStop permanency on my 10 Ft emanation for my Epic Spell Caster. Because if I could, I would be freaking Neo in the matrix. Why? Simple - because this has effectively allowed my Time Stop to reside only on the confines of my Emantion. No object, or physical damage can affect me. Possibly spell effects as well such as Rays etc. Even Instaneous Spell Effects. Hence , I believe
hawkinsthedm 07-20-07, 02:44 PM	Um, time stop is not even on the list of spells that can be used with permanency.
runestar 07-20-07, 10:26 PM	Nor does time stop even have a duration to be made permanent (it only has an apparent duration for purposes of explaining what the spell does). Else, people would have been persisting time-stop a long time ago. Tenacious magic is more useful for long duration buff spells you do not want to go through the hassle of refreshing if they are dispelled, such as mindblank or persistent divine power.:)