Whats the highest AC that a 30+ Epic Character could deal decent damage to? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Whats the highest AC that a 30+ Epic Character could deal decent damage to? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Callabryn
05-13-07, 10:26 AM I'm not so great at figuring AC, and i'm trying to make an Epic level side-mission deal, but i'm not sure what AC to give the final boss-type-guy.
Upper_Krust
05-13-07, 10:35 AM Hey Callabryn! :)

I'm not so great at figuring AC, and i'm trying to make an Epic level side-mission deal, but i'm not sure what AC to give the final boss-type-guy.

Try something between 35-45 depending on how difficult you want them to be to hit.
Einvaldurinn_mikli
05-13-07, 10:35 AM Make it over 9000.
LeuktheSavior
05-13-07, 10:46 AM depends, what are the character's classes. a 35-45 range is horrible if you're dealing with a fighter BAB progression. not including ability scores, magical enhancements, or feats to their attack bonus, they'd only need to roll somewhere between a 5-15 and at 30+, i imagine they would have more than enough stuff to strike an opponent with an AC of 50.
Callabryn
05-13-07, 11:36 AM I want him to be as close to impossible as i can get, without him being "We can't beat him, this sucks, we quit" difficult. My group plays too haphazardly to actually know what character they're going to use during a given session, but their predictability says Barbarian/Warriors with impossible Strength, Bards with absolutely no Intelligence, and a serious, well played Druid/Spellcaster.
Krispieman
05-13-07, 05:31 PM You'd really need to know what type of classes your players will be playing, with both feats, equipment and even spells factored in. That simply run some numbers.

As an example, I have a CR 36 NPC who has an AC of 87, possibly 91 with a to hit of +62. But considering he has the Paragon template, his AC is insanely high.
Perhaps a better example is a CR 35 NPC caster with an AC of 57.

Just keep in mind that it's really easy to boost AC, just think of the following:
+8 dex, +8 armor, +5 deflection, +4 shield, +1 insight, +5 natural = 41. At level 30+ any character should be able to do better than this.

K-man :cool:
rob_douglas
05-15-07, 05:19 PM I have been planning encounters for my party, and I made up a table of some key stats and used that to find the goal creatures I could use:

Name LVL CON enhCON fromCON total
Alec 22 16 22 132 260
Gareth 23 15 21 115 287
Ryan 22 14 18 88 263
Marya 21 14 18 84 191
Asrid 20 16 22 120 202

Party AC & Attack

Name LVL AC To Hit
Alec 22 37 +34
Gareth 23 42 +42
Ryan 21 46 +30
Marya 21 34 +23
Asrid 20 66 +22 (yes, he's a monk/sorcerer....)

As you can see they are 20th-23rd level (though the 20th level guy is an Asimmar, +1LA). This led me to conclude that enemies needed AC of 40-50, attack bonuses of +32-56, for a CR 20-29.

For 30th level, with all the options and epic spells available, AC of 60 would seem to be easy enough to hit. If you want him to seem unhittable, try AC 70+. However, it sounds like your players are not likely to have optimized much. In that case - assuming a melee character with 34Str, 30 levels, +25BAB, and a +6 weapon, and some epic feats and such to make that weapon work well - maybe +48 to attack rolls, +50 if they remember some basic spells. So yeah, that still leaves AC70 as "nigh unhittable" because they need a 20. You could go up and down from there if you want him more hittable or the PCs are more optimized.

ROB
Callabryn
05-15-07, 07:09 PM Thanks all, I'm still not down to pat with all of the smaller details of D&D yet. I've been playing for about 6-7 Months-ish, and I still need to work on some of my DMing skills.
Balthanon
05-16-07, 12:30 PM Thanks all, I'm still not down to pat with all of the smaller details of D&D yet. I've been playing for about 6-7 Months-ish, and I still need to work on some of my DMing skills.

In general, DMing tends to get more difficult as the player's levels go up (as does designing the character)-- if you've only been playing for 6 or 7 months, it may be worthwhile to temporarily shelve the epic campaign and maybe have the characters sponsor some lower level groups that you could run through other adventures.

When you have a firm grasp of the details, come back with some epic threats that the players need to return to their original characters for.
skywyze
05-16-07, 01:23 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBtpyeLxVkI

Nuff said. :D

Seriously though, it could easily be pushed up to around 500, at which point it gets pointless. Aim for 80 or so and you should be good, and that's pretty easy.
runestar
05-17-07, 07:21 AM Depends.
Does the party fighter have persistent wraithstrike?:P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Callabryn 05-13-07, 10:26 AM	I'm not so great at figuring AC, and i'm trying to make an Epic level side-mission deal, but i'm not sure what AC to give the final boss-type-guy.
Upper_Krust 05-13-07, 10:35 AM	Hey Callabryn! :) I'm not so great at figuring AC, and i'm trying to make an Epic level side-mission deal, but i'm not sure what AC to give the final boss-type-guy. Try something between 35-45 depending on how difficult you want them to be to hit.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 05-13-07, 10:35 AM	Make it over 9000.
LeuktheSavior 05-13-07, 10:46 AM	depends, what are the character's classes. a 35-45 range is horrible if you're dealing with a fighter BAB progression. not including ability scores, magical enhancements, or feats to their attack bonus, they'd only need to roll somewhere between a 5-15 and at 30+, i imagine they would have more than enough stuff to strike an opponent with an AC of 50.
Callabryn 05-13-07, 11:36 AM	I want him to be as close to impossible as i can get, without him being "We can't beat him, this sucks, we quit" difficult. My group plays too haphazardly to actually know what character they're going to use during a given session, but their predictability says Barbarian/Warriors with impossible Strength, Bards with absolutely no Intelligence, and a serious, well played Druid/Spellcaster.
Krispieman 05-13-07, 05:31 PM	You'd really need to know what type of classes your players will be playing, with both feats, equipment and even spells factored in. That simply run some numbers. As an example, I have a CR 36 NPC who has an AC of 87, possibly 91 with a to hit of +62. But considering he has the Paragon template, his AC is insanely high. Perhaps a better example is a CR 35 NPC caster with an AC of 57. Just keep in mind that it's really easy to boost AC, just think of the following: +8 dex, +8 armor, +5 deflection, +4 shield, +1 insight, +5 natural = 41. At level 30+ any character should be able to do better than this. K-man :cool:
rob_douglas 05-15-07, 05:19 PM	I have been planning encounters for my party, and I made up a table of some key stats and used that to find the goal creatures I could use: Name LVL CON enhCON fromCON total Alec 22 16 22 132 260 Gareth 23 15 21 115 287 Ryan 22 14 18 88 263 Marya 21 14 18 84 191 Asrid 20 16 22 120 202 Party AC & Attack Name LVL AC To Hit Alec 22 37 +34 Gareth 23 42 +42 Ryan 21 46 +30 Marya 21 34 +23 Asrid 20 66 +22 (yes, he's a monk/sorcerer....) As you can see they are 20th-23rd level (though the 20th level guy is an Asimmar, +1LA). This led me to conclude that enemies needed AC of 40-50, attack bonuses of +32-56, for a CR 20-29. For 30th level, with all the options and epic spells available, AC of 60 would seem to be easy enough to hit. If you want him to seem unhittable, try AC 70+. However, it sounds like your players are not likely to have optimized much. In that case - assuming a melee character with 34Str, 30 levels, +25BAB, and a +6 weapon, and some epic feats and such to make that weapon work well - maybe +48 to attack rolls, +50 if they remember some basic spells. So yeah, that still leaves AC70 as "nigh unhittable" because they need a 20. You could go up and down from there if you want him more hittable or the PCs are more optimized. ROB
Callabryn 05-15-07, 07:09 PM	Thanks all, I'm still not down to pat with all of the smaller details of D&D yet. I've been playing for about 6-7 Months-ish, and I still need to work on some of my DMing skills.
Balthanon 05-16-07, 12:30 PM	Thanks all, I'm still not down to pat with all of the smaller details of D&D yet. I've been playing for about 6-7 Months-ish, and I still need to work on some of my DMing skills. In general, DMing tends to get more difficult as the player's levels go up (as does designing the character)-- if you've only been playing for 6 or 7 months, it may be worthwhile to temporarily shelve the epic campaign and maybe have the characters sponsor some lower level groups that you could run through other adventures. When you have a firm grasp of the details, come back with some epic threats that the players need to return to their original characters for.
skywyze 05-16-07, 01:23 PM	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBtpyeLxVkI Nuff said. :D Seriously though, it could easily be pushed up to around 500, at which point it gets pointless. Aim for 80 or so and you should be good, and that's pretty easy.
runestar 05-17-07, 07:21 AM	Depends. Does the party fighter have persistent wraithstrike?:P