...Piano wire? [Archive] - Wizards Community

...Piano wire? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
KurenaiYami
08-21-07, 07:54 AM I had a friend of mine sit in on one of my sessions last week. She rolled up a half-elf Rogue. She has a campaign of her own in a different state, and she and her friends made up their own rules for the game, so they are pretty much up for making anything to fit anyone. It works fine for her, though her internal inconsitancies bother the heck out of me.

In any case, she wanted her weapon of choice to be piano wire. Ignoring the fact that it's unsuited for any real combat, how would you make this work?

She suggested something along the lines of getting them in a grapple and holding them for 3 turns and it instantly killing the enemy, but any weapon that automatically kills any opponent seemed off to me.

Any thoughts? Suggestions?
NoirLotus
08-21-07, 08:12 AM You will find in Song & Silence (3.0 but still available in my opinion) rules for doing this kind of stuff.
Devlonir
08-21-07, 08:19 AM Just let her be able to make a humanoid creature start 'drowning' when she uses the piano wire

From SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#drowning):

Drowning
Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1. See also: Swim skill description.

When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

It is possible to drown in substances other than water, such as sand, quicksand, fine dust, and silos full of grain.

Maybe start with using the Constitution check earlier on, like after round 2 or 3. Because someone who is suddenly choked in a piano wire doesnt really have time to take a good breath before being choked that way. I think fairest would be to reduce the number of turns the victim can hold their breath by the attacking character's Str score. Thinking of it, id make the number of rounds someone can hold their breath something like:

(Defender's Con score + 3) - Attackers Str score.

So a 12 Con victim against a 12 Str attacker will have 3 rounds, a 10 Con victim against a 14 Str attacker would have to make Constitution checks after round 1.

Also, dont forget that grappling means two people actually struggling with each other. So I think this wont start before the attacker can pin the opponent, giving him the possibility to do with the defender what he wants. Although I dont think holding a pin should be necesarry to keep it wrapped around the neck. Just winning the grapple should be enough.

Finally, the skill needed to use a piano wire defenitely makes it an exotic weapon.
Shaggy_Shaggs
08-21-07, 08:19 AM Uh, that's the capstone ability of the 5-level Reaping Mauler PrC, and even then it allows a save to negate the effect. I'm gonna have to say hell no.
Thane26425
08-21-07, 08:40 AM To make an attack like that would require sneaking up on the target, with the appropriate skill checks, penalties and all. Don't forget that it would be pretty much out of the question if the target had its back to the wall or had friends since they certainly wouldn't stand around watching their mate get strangled to death.

If the attack were successful, I can see giving the target a save against it. From there I can see a STR contest to get the wire off, with penalties to the target; the target doing unarmed attacks like elbows and foot stomping with at least the loss of DEX and the like from the strangler (they can't move out of the way); the target drawing a small weapon like a dagger and stabbing over the shoulder into the face of the attacker or down at the legs, again the strangler would lose all DEX and mobility bonuses.

The target could also grapple. This wouldn't be your usualy wrestling match, but rather an attempt to turn and break the lock or throw the attacker over their shoulder, etc.

Again, let's not forget friend who would have an easy target of the strangler. Also, that is a distinctive and nasty weapon. Allies of anyone killed by the thing would be likely to recognize it if they saw it, especially if in use, and have quite an interest in payback on the person who so brutally killed one of their mates.

So, let her try it and take a dagger in the face. Might dampen her bloodlust a bit.
NeueRegel
08-21-07, 08:47 AM I only allow 3.5 core rules, but I'd resolve it (in the long run) by making her prestige into assassin and using the death attack rules, except of course that I'd have to figure out a new wording for "an attack that does damage"; Maybe just "an attack that hits", in this case, or something. I'll worry about it as soon as it never comes up in our game.

But good luck. :)

Neue
Fabius Maximus
08-21-07, 11:30 AM One of the more recent Dragons had an article about strngling rules. They required grappling.

I think it was issue #348.
1 ton ghost
08-21-07, 02:19 PM you mean "garrot"...haven't seen a piano yet in faerun or greyhawk...

yeah, i'd go w/ the newest publication Fabius recommended. typically, not always, newest usually has kinks worked out.
Watchman
08-21-07, 04:54 PM Properly used a garotte is Pure Nasty On A Stick and virtually a certain death to the recipient, regardless of whether it's just a lenght of rope or something fancier he's being strangled with. Although of course you need to know how to use the thing properly, and many armour designs - both helmets, body armours and dedicated neck defenses - of them olden days factually immunize their wearers to it (the 3v1l 133t archwizard Manshoon, of FR fame, actually wears a magical gorget thingy which is specifically mentioned to shield him from attacks targeting the neck). Doesn't particularly help that even a surprise attack may fail because the target had just enough reaction time to tilt his chin against his chest before you could slip the rope/scarf/wire/whatever around his throat proper...
mato_hibiki
08-21-07, 05:58 PM If you don't have access to all those wonderful sources mentioned, then just have it be a light grapple only weapon. Tell her to take improved grapple, and maybe improved trip for a little synergy.

Enjoy choking people. (only in DnD though.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KurenaiYami 08-21-07, 07:54 AM	I had a friend of mine sit in on one of my sessions last week. She rolled up a half-elf Rogue. She has a campaign of her own in a different state, and she and her friends made up their own rules for the game, so they are pretty much up for making anything to fit anyone. It works fine for her, though her internal inconsitancies bother the heck out of me. In any case, she wanted her weapon of choice to be piano wire. Ignoring the fact that it's unsuited for any real combat, how would you make this work? She suggested something along the lines of getting them in a grapple and holding them for 3 turns and it instantly killing the enemy, but any weapon that automatically kills any opponent seemed off to me. Any thoughts? Suggestions?
NoirLotus 08-21-07, 08:12 AM	You will find in Song & Silence (3.0 but still available in my opinion) rules for doing this kind of stuff.
Devlonir 08-21-07, 08:19 AM	Just let her be able to make a humanoid creature start 'drowning' when she uses the piano wire From SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#drowning): Drowning Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1. See also: Swim skill description. When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns. It is possible to drown in substances other than water, such as sand, quicksand, fine dust, and silos full of grain. Maybe start with using the Constitution check earlier on, like after round 2 or 3. Because someone who is suddenly choked in a piano wire doesnt really have time to take a good breath before being choked that way. I think fairest would be to reduce the number of turns the victim can hold their breath by the attacking character's Str score. Thinking of it, id make the number of rounds someone can hold their breath something like: (Defender's Con score + 3) - Attackers Str score. So a 12 Con victim against a 12 Str attacker will have 3 rounds, a 10 Con victim against a 14 Str attacker would have to make Constitution checks after round 1. Also, dont forget that grappling means two people actually struggling with each other. So I think this wont start before the attacker can pin the opponent, giving him the possibility to do with the defender what he wants. Although I dont think holding a pin should be necesarry to keep it wrapped around the neck. Just winning the grapple should be enough. Finally, the skill needed to use a piano wire defenitely makes it an exotic weapon.
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-21-07, 08:19 AM	Uh, that's the capstone ability of the 5-level Reaping Mauler PrC, and even then it allows a save to negate the effect. I'm gonna have to say hell no.
Thane26425 08-21-07, 08:40 AM	To make an attack like that would require sneaking up on the target, with the appropriate skill checks, penalties and all. Don't forget that it would be pretty much out of the question if the target had its back to the wall or had friends since they certainly wouldn't stand around watching their mate get strangled to death. If the attack were successful, I can see giving the target a save against it. From there I can see a STR contest to get the wire off, with penalties to the target; the target doing unarmed attacks like elbows and foot stomping with at least the loss of DEX and the like from the strangler (they can't move out of the way); the target drawing a small weapon like a dagger and stabbing over the shoulder into the face of the attacker or down at the legs, again the strangler would lose all DEX and mobility bonuses. The target could also grapple. This wouldn't be your usualy wrestling match, but rather an attempt to turn and break the lock or throw the attacker over their shoulder, etc. Again, let's not forget friend who would have an easy target of the strangler. Also, that is a distinctive and nasty weapon. Allies of anyone killed by the thing would be likely to recognize it if they saw it, especially if in use, and have quite an interest in payback on the person who so brutally killed one of their mates. So, let her try it and take a dagger in the face. Might dampen her bloodlust a bit.
NeueRegel 08-21-07, 08:47 AM	I only allow 3.5 core rules, but I'd resolve it (in the long run) by making her prestige into assassin and using the death attack rules, except of course that I'd have to figure out a new wording for "an attack that does damage"; Maybe just "an attack that hits", in this case, or something. I'll worry about it as soon as it never comes up in our game. But good luck. :) Neue
Fabius Maximus 08-21-07, 11:30 AM	One of the more recent Dragons had an article about strngling rules. They required grappling. I think it was issue #348.
1 ton ghost 08-21-07, 02:19 PM	you mean "garrot"...haven't seen a piano yet in faerun or greyhawk... yeah, i'd go w/ the newest publication Fabius recommended. typically, not always, newest usually has kinks worked out.
Watchman 08-21-07, 04:54 PM	Properly used a garotte is Pure Nasty On A Stick and virtually a certain death to the recipient, regardless of whether it's just a lenght of rope or something fancier he's being strangled with. Although of course you need to know how to use the thing properly, and many armour designs - both helmets, body armours and dedicated neck defenses - of them olden days factually immunize their wearers to it (the 3v1l 133t archwizard Manshoon, of FR fame, actually wears a magical gorget thingy which is specifically mentioned to shield him from attacks targeting the neck). Doesn't particularly help that even a surprise attack may fail because the target had just enough reaction time to tilt his chin against his chest before you could slip the rope/scarf/wire/whatever around his throat proper...
mato_hibiki 08-21-07, 05:58 PM	If you don't have access to all those wonderful sources mentioned, then just have it be a light grapple only weapon. Tell her to take improved grapple, and maybe improved trip for a little synergy. Enjoy choking people. (only in DnD though.)