Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sylvaroth 01-09-07, 08:52 AM	I just came to realize what broad range of options a character, wearing spiked armor and wielding a double weapon and/or a reach weapon (e.g. a glaive) presents to a player. The double weapon lets you choose to attack with a light and a one-handed weapon, a two-handed weapon, or a single one-handed weapon, while the spiked armor gives you the option to combine the spike's light weapon property with the above attacks (spikes+two-handed double weapon or spikes+one-handed weapon). The spikes lets you threaten the squares adjacent to your character, while the range weapon threatens those within its reach. And as far as I understand it, you might even get two attacks of opportunity against the same foe, who moves into an adjacent square to you (the first one when entering the squares threatened with your glaive, the second one performing any action that provokes AoOs), provided you have the combat reflexes feat. So a human fighter1 with a Dex of 15, and the feats combat reflexes, exotic weapon proficiency, and two-weapon fighting, wearing spiked armor, and carrying e.g. a glaive, a double weapon, a greataxe, some throwing weapons, and a ranged weapon, would be a force to be reckoned with, even at low levels. Taking Quick Draw at 2nd level, he could even change his weapons (sheathing one, drawing the other) as one move and one free action, attacking foes with any weapon he needs.
Black Mantha 01-09-07, 10:11 AM	And as far as I understand it, you might even get two attacks of opportunity against the same foe, who moves into an adjacent square to you (the first one when entering the squares threatened with your glaive, the second one performing any action that provokes AoOs), provided you have the combat reflexes feat. No. You get an AoO when leaving a threatened area. If you can make yourself large, tough...
Majick 01-09-07, 10:20 AM	theres a feat called "hold the line" that gives you attacks of opportunity when someone ENTERS a square you threaten
Sylvaroth 01-09-07, 10:20 AM	True, but if somebody charged you and then tried to disarm you you'd get two AoOs.
mvincent 01-09-07, 02:36 PM	if somebody charged you and then tried to disarm you you'd get two AoOs.Only if you had a reach weapon (or somesuch) and combat reflexes. Using TWF'ing won't help you here.
Sylvaroth 01-10-07, 12:46 PM	...wielding a double weapon and/or a reach weapon (e.g. a glaive) ...provided you have the combat reflexes feat. Reading the whole thread, one realizes that is what my comment was based upon.
willvr 01-10-07, 01:57 PM	The reach weapon lets you threaten both the squares adjacent to your character, as well as those within reach of the glaive. Reach weapon combined with armor spikes might do that; (though, do armor spikes actually threaten an adjacent square?), but the reach weapon itself does not. It /only/ threatens squares 10 ft away - there is an exception in the spiked chain. This is why a way to target reach weapons is to charge up; soak up that AoO; and then use something which usually takes an AoO - usually I'd grapple; but with the spikes, I'd go for the disarm; or even better, a trip.
Sylvaroth 01-10-07, 02:02 PM	Yeah, you are right, it should read you threaten squares adjacent to you with the spikes and those 10' away with your glaive.
Despana 01-10-07, 02:18 PM	An opponent could stroll right past you (going through 5 threatened spaces) and you still only get one AoO. In fact someone with alot of movement (say, a monk or some such) could wander in and out of your threatened area several times and you still only get 1 AoO. Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.
crimsonwolf 01-10-07, 02:18 PM	1st level combat? hmm.... golatith great hammer. check mate.
tarkin 01-10-07, 03:45 PM	Also, your original post was a bit unclear. You may already know, but just to clarify: If you have a double weapon and armor spikes, you can not make 3 attacks per round at first level.
Sylvaroth 01-10-07, 03:53 PM	A) Unclear concearning what? B) Yes I know :D
Iceraven 01-10-07, 06:50 PM	But you can wield a 1 handed weapon with 2 hands (or a 2 handed weaponed with 2 hands) and use your spikes as your "off-hand" weapon?
Sylvaroth 01-10-07, 07:20 PM	Yupp :) You can wield all one-handed weapons with two hands, and all two-handed weapons with one hand (though I think it depends on the particular weapon's entry). And you may treat your armor spikes as the light weapon for the purpose of two weapon fighting.
TheCobra 01-10-07, 07:44 PM	It's pretty unfair that that allows you to get 1.5x STR on your main weapon while using TWF. #$%&ing armor spikes. :nonono:
Jay_Ibero_911 01-10-07, 09:23 PM	It's pretty unfair that that allows you to get 1.5x STR on your main weapon while using TWF. #$%&ing armor spikes. :nonono: Even worse, armor spikes with an Exotic Weapon Master using uncanny blow with a bastard sword or whatever and 2 weapon fighting. Wind up getting 2.5xstr bonus to damage between 2 attacks. Sure, he takes -2 to both attacks, but as long as you do at least 4 damage with the spikes, then it is a better trade then power attack.
Silverthumb128 01-10-07, 09:30 PM	1st level combat? hmm.... golatith great hammer. check mate. Orc Barbarian with Goliath Great Hammer is what you meant, right? With a natural 18 put towards Strength? :D
Qube 01-11-07, 04:38 AM	any race with a bite attack does the same (i'm currently playing half-dragon+glaive: the threatend square advantave + ultimate str for trip attacks :D)
Archtyrant Terevoth 01-11-07, 04:54 AM	It's pretty unfair that that allows you to get 1.5x STR on your main weapon while using TWF. #$%&ing armor spikes. :nonono: Yeah, I've always found armor spikes to be pretty overpowered for that reason. I make the house rule that armor spikes require an arm to use. I always found the armless bodyslam to be pretty silly anyway.
willvr 01-11-07, 09:13 AM	/Or/ if you don't have an arm free; you effectively have to enter the opponent's square; like a tiny creature. Important point - invokes AoO.
Steevo 01-11-07, 10:08 AM	Yupp :) You can wield all one-handed weapons with two hands, and all two-handed weapons with one hand (though I think it depends on the particular weapon's entry). And you may treat your armor spikes as the light weapon for the purpose of two weapon fighting. Woah, woah, woah. Hold the phone. Where do you get that you can weild any two-handed weapon in one hand? You can hold a two handed weapon in one hand, but to fight effectively you either need both hands on the weapon or a feat (I want to say monkey grip, but I don't think that's the right one.) As far as weilding one handed weapons in two hands, I'm not entirley sure of the rules, but I can at least suspend disbelief and accept the possibility.
Plothos 01-11-07, 10:32 AM	1-handed weapons can be wielded in two hands to get 1.5 str. Light weapons cannot. Longsword, heavy mace, battleaxe, yes. Short sword, dagger, handaxe, no.
Centauri 01-11-07, 09:05 PM	But you can wield a 1 handed weapon with 2 hands (or a 2 handed weaponed with 2 hands) and use your spikes as your "off-hand" weapon? Yes but: You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa. A DM would be well within the bounds of reason to rule that attacking with a two-handed weapon counts as weilding an off-hand weapon, so if you swung your greatsword you couldn't then attack with your armor spikes, and vice versa. He would also have to rule on whether an attack with armor spikes meant you couldn't attack with anything else during your attacks of opportunity that round. Personally, I doubt it's worth the trouble of keeping track of that sort of thing, so getting attacks of opportunity at both 10' and 5' is probably safe. Lots of ways to get that though.
Sylvaroth 01-12-07, 04:50 PM	I think that is only true, if you do not use the rules to translate a character's actions into the rules mechanics to see how they turn out, but rather use your character like a chess piece, that moves according to the rules. An example: As the growling orc barbarian charges Joe Fighter, he swings at him with his glaive, following through with a kick of his spike adorned, heavily armored boot, as the wounded monster tries to knock the glaive out of Joe's hands. To translate this into the rules mechanics: "As the growling orc barbarian charges Joe Fighter..." The orc charges, entering a square threatened by Joe Fighter's glaive, thus provoking an AoO. "...He swings at him with his glaive..." Joe Fighter makes his first Attack of Opportunity with his two-handed weapon. "...Following through with a kick of his spike adorned heavily armored boot, as the wounded monster tries to knock the glaive out of Joe's hands." The orc's attempt to disarm Joe provokes another Attack of Opportunity. Provided Joe has the feat Combat Reflexes, he may now make his second Attack of Opportunity with his armor spikes.
Qube 01-12-07, 05:18 PM	The orc moves to enter a square threatened by both, Joe Fighter's greatsword and armor spikes, thus provoking an AoO. entering a square does not provoke an AoO, it's leaving a threatend square that does. an attack of oppertunity is 1 melee attack. and you can only attack 1 enemy once with it per round, no matter how much provoking he does "...Following through with a kick of his spike adorned heavily armored boot" now Joe falls on his back for faling to keep balanced :D i don't see the point of the discussion: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a -4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes’ effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right. Light A light weapon is easier to use in one’s off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and it can be used while grappling. A light weapon is used in one hand. Add the wielder’s Strength bonus (if any) to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or one-half the wielder’s Strength bonus if it’s used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder’s primary hand only. An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. One-Handed A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or ½ his or her Strength bonus if it’s used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1½ times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls. armor spikes are a additional weapon: you always carry them, and you can use them to attack. its not diffrent then carring 2 weapons (note: even if you carrie 2 weapons, you are not forced to use them both) no 1.5 str for spiked armor
Steevo 01-12-07, 06:02 PM	an attack of oppertunity is 1 melee attack. and you can only attack 1 enemy once with it per round, no matter how much provoking he does Actually, that's not entirely true. An enemy can provoke more than once during his turn and you can take multiple AoOs against him, provided you have a feat like Combat Reflexes that allows you tot ake more than one per turn. For example, if your enemy moved 10' from your diagonal front left to your diagonal front right, he would provoke for leaving a threatened square. If he then quaffed a potion he was holding with his second move action, he would provoke again. I'm not saying that example is the smartest course of action your opponent could take, but the point is that it is possible to provoke more than once, and you could take advantage if you have the right feats. You can only provoke once for any particular opportunity each round, but that's not quite the same thing as only provoking once per round. Secondly, an Attack of Opportunity is an attack action which, as clarified by the FAQ, can be used to make a trip attack, a grapple, a sunder or any other special attack action on the provoking character. Depending on how you interpret two weapon fighting, this could very well allow for an AoO hitting with both weapons.
Sylvaroth 01-12-07, 06:32 PM	entering a square does not provoke an AoO, it's leaving a threatend square that does. an attack of oppertunity is 1 melee attack. and you can only attack 1 enemy once with it per round, no matter how much provoking he does. I made some changes, so now it seems to be correct (lately I seem to mix up that getting in/out of threatened squares a lot :D ). Still, the FAQ states 'Any time a character wielding more than one weapon is allowed an attack of opportunity, he may use any weapon that threatens the opponent who has provoked the attack.' So one might think Joe'd still get his two AoOs if he wielded a greatsword and wore spiked armor, while the orc charged him and tried to disarm him, since both (the greatsword and the armor spikes) threaten the squares in which the orc provokes the AoOs. If the assumption, this would be like AoOing the orc with two-weapon fighting (using the greatsword as the primary, and the armor spikes as the off-hand weapon), is erroneous, Joe would not even have to worry about two-weapon fighting penalties. now Joe falls on his back for faling to keep balanced :D To avoid this, Joe would have to succeed in a Balance check against DC ???, which should not be much of a problem, as his stats qualify him to take Combat Reflexes ;) Still, this is a valid addition to my above post (and another example for my point). i don't see the point of the discussion: armor spikes are a additional weapon: you always carry them, and you can use them to attack. its not diffrent then carring 2 weapons (note: even if you carrie 2 weapons, you are not forced to use them both) Your opponent will have a hard time to disarm you of your armor spikes, so unless you have a locked gauntlet, it is indeed a little different from carrying 2 weapons. Aside from that, wearing spiked armor is more like carrying 3 weapons, or 2 weapons and possibly a shield. no 1.5 str for spiked armor Not too sure about that. Imagine a half-orc two-handedly wielding a gnome in spiked armor :D
Qube 01-13-07, 02:55 AM	Still, the FAQ states 'Any time a character wielding more than one weapon is allowed an attack of opportunity, he may use any weapon that threatens the opponent who has provoked the attack.' any, not all. he may choose to attack with spikes OR axe (mutual exclusive or), not bothYour opponent will have a hard time to disarm you of your armor spikes, so unless you have a locked gauntlet, it is indeed a little different from carrying 2 weapons. their are other weapons that are not disarmable: the gauntlet for example. Not too sure about that. Imagine a half-orc two-handedly wielding a gnome in spiked armor :D oke, i'll give you that one. (i yust hope your half-orc is has weapon proficiency: bastard :D)
Sylvaroth 01-13-07, 03:36 AM	There are other weapons that are not disarmable: the gauntlet for example. Or the spiked gauntlet, or the locked gauntlet, or my clawed gauntlet (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11046856&postcount=7) (which essentially is a spiked gauntlet that does slashing damage instead of piercing damage, and is supplemented with a buckler). oke, i'll give you that one. (i yust hope your half-orc is has weapon proficiency: bastard :D) He does not only have WP [bastard], he does also have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency [gnome doublehammer]. Its much like a double axe, but without the blades :D