2 2-handers? [Archive] - Wizards Community

2 2-handers? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheDragonmaster
07-25-06, 07:06 AM For you who thought so, this is no Monkey Grip/Powerful Build Crap Thread...

If you have a 4-handed race (like Thri-Kreen), and want to Dual-wield Greatswords (holding each in 2 hands), from what I can see, you can't. Am I wrong, and how is the official ruling in this case?

If it is normally impossible, would you allow the character to do that, but add 1-½ times the Str to the first Greatsword attack and 1 times the Str to the other?

(For you who don't understand my point, the Primary hand nearly always adds 1 times your Str bonus and all Off-hands adds ½ times your Str, disregarding natural weapons and monks...)

To de-complicate (simplify):

1a) Can you dual-wield 2-handers officially?

1b) If so, how do you rule it?

2) If not, would you allow my house ruling (above)?

Help appriciated (even though I can't spell the word)!!!
babysamurai
07-25-06, 07:41 AM They would be able to wield two greatswords, but only 1 of them would get x 1.5 Str bonus, while the second would get x 1 Str bonus.

No matter how many arms you have, you still only have one “primary” hand, and all the others are “off-hands”.
babysamurai
07-25-06, 07:53 AM But what I’m wondering is; would Two-Weapon Fighting be enough to pull this off, or would you still need Multi-Weapon Fighting, because you are fighting with more than 2 arms?
runestar
07-25-06, 08:15 AM 1) yes, they can wield 2 greatswords. The XPH has an entry on the gychta, a double weapon, and it states a thri keen can wield 2 of them. This means they can wield 2 2-handed weapons. :)

They would be able to wield two greatswords, but only 1 of them would get x 1.5 Str bonus, while the second would get x 1 Str bonus.
Actually, both greatswords would get the full 1.5 str bonus. The PHB states that you get 1.5 str bonus on a 2-handed weapon when you wield it with both hands. It does not state that you have to use your main hand to do so. Thus, you still get 1.5 str bonus on the greatsword wielded with your 2 off-hands. :)
Sik
07-25-06, 08:27 AM I'd say you still need Multiweapon Fighting to cover this.
MingThing
07-25-06, 08:40 AM or maybe not, he is fighting only with manufactured weapons, i think that has something to say?
babysamurai
07-25-06, 08:50 AM Actually, both greatswords would get the full 1.5 str bonus. The PHB states that you get 1.5 str bonus on a 2-handed weapon when you wield it with both hands. It does not state that you have to use your main hand to do so. Thus, you still get 1.5 str bonus on the greatsword wielded with your 2 off-hands. :)

Nice.
Novacat
07-25-06, 09:50 AM I'd say you still need Multiweapon Fighting to cover this.
Not sure if you have any reason to think this, but even so, a Thri-kreen can take Multiweapon Fighting in place of Two Weapon Fighting anyways. Also, you don't NEED either feat. These feats don't ALLOW fighting with multiple weapons, just reduce the penalties for doing so.

That said, I still think you're wrong.
runestar
07-25-06, 10:01 AM Not sure if you have any reason to think this, but even so, a Thri-kreen can take Multiweapon Fighting in place of Two Weapon Fighting anyways. Also, you don't NEED either feat. These feats don't ALLOW fighting with multiple weapons, just reduce the penalties for doing so.
However, the penalties for not doing so are so bad that you will want to take TWF anyways, or risk not ever hitting with your attacks. :(
TheDragonmaster
07-25-06, 11:17 AM They would be able to wield two greatswords, but only 1 of them would get x 1.5 Str bonus, while the second would get x 1 Str bonus.

No matter how many arms you have, you still only have one “primary” hand, and all the others are “off-hands”.
Thank you. That is more or less what I thought, and more or less it makes sense. I'm probably going to rule this way...

But what I’m wondering is; would Two-Weapon Fighting be enough to pull this off, or would you still need Multi-Weapon Fighting, because you are fighting with more than 2 arms?
Seeing that there is no reason at all to take TWF when you can take MWF, since it helps on every case exept one weapon, I think that I will ignore this post :P .

Actually, both greatswords would get the full 1.5 str bonus. The PHB states that you get 1.5 str bonus on a 2-handed weapon when you wield it with both hands. It does not state that you have to use your main hand to do so. Thus, you still get 1.5 str bonus on the greatsword wielded with your 2 off-hands.
The PH (as it is abbreviated, even if it sounds wrong) states things that applies only to very limited and focused areas anyways, and gives no explanation to the mechanics behind it (for example, read page 134 (and again at 135), on Armor Class (it specifically states that you only add shield, armor, Dex and size to armor, and thus that no Natural Armor or Deflection is added, for example))...
The point is, that this just feels so wrong :noway: .

I'd say you still need Multiweapon Fighting to cover this.
Yes.

or maybe not, he is fighting only with manufactured weapons, i think that has something to say?
I fail to see of what importance this is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sik
I'd say you still need Multiweapon Fighting to cover this.

Not sure if you have any reason to think this, but even so, a Thri-kreen can take Multiweapon Fighting in place of Two Weapon Fighting anyways. Also, you don't NEED either feat. These feats don't ALLOW fighting with multiple weapons, just reduce the penalties for doing so.

That said, I still think you're wrong.
I refer to my answer to babysamurai's second post.

Quote:
Not sure if you have any reason to think this, but even so, a Thri-kreen can take Multiweapon Fighting in place of Two Weapon Fighting anyways. Also, you don't NEED either feat. These feats don't ALLOW fighting with multiple weapons, just reduce the penalties for doing so.

However, the penalties for not doing so are so bad that you will want to take TWF anyways, or risk not ever hitting with your attacks.
I don't think that is the point he is making...

Thank you for all input, and I think I am sticking with the ruling of babysamurai, as it is both in line with normal 2-Hander vs. Dual-Wield arguments and the ruling for using a three-handed Greatsword (Three or More Hands, Page 42, Savage Species). Again, thanks!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheDragonmaster 07-25-06, 07:06 AM	For you who thought so, this is no Monkey Grip/Powerful Build Crap Thread... If you have a 4-handed race (like Thri-Kreen), and want to Dual-wield Greatswords (holding each in 2 hands), from what I can see, you can't. Am I wrong, and how is the official ruling in this case? If it is normally impossible, would you allow the character to do that, but add 1-½ times the Str to the first Greatsword attack and 1 times the Str to the other? (For you who don't understand my point, the Primary hand nearly always adds 1 times your Str bonus and all Off-hands adds ½ times your Str, disregarding natural weapons and monks...) To de-complicate (simplify): 1a) Can you dual-wield 2-handers officially? 1b) If so, how do you rule it? 2) If not, would you allow my house ruling (above)? Help appriciated (even though I can't spell the word)!!!
babysamurai 07-25-06, 07:41 AM	They would be able to wield two greatswords, but only 1 of them would get x 1.5 Str bonus, while the second would get x 1 Str bonus. No matter how many arms you have, you still only have one “primary” hand, and all the others are “off-hands”.
babysamurai 07-25-06, 07:53 AM	But what I’m wondering is; would Two-Weapon Fighting be enough to pull this off, or would you still need Multi-Weapon Fighting, because you are fighting with more than 2 arms?
runestar 07-25-06, 08:15 AM	1) yes, they can wield 2 greatswords. The XPH has an entry on the gychta, a double weapon, and it states a thri keen can wield 2 of them. This means they can wield 2 2-handed weapons. :) They would be able to wield two greatswords, but only 1 of them would get x 1.5 Str bonus, while the second would get x 1 Str bonus. Actually, both greatswords would get the full 1.5 str bonus. The PHB states that you get 1.5 str bonus on a 2-handed weapon when you wield it with both hands. It does not state that you have to use your main hand to do so. Thus, you still get 1.5 str bonus on the greatsword wielded with your 2 off-hands. :)
Sik 07-25-06, 08:27 AM	I'd say you still need Multiweapon Fighting to cover this.
MingThing 07-25-06, 08:40 AM	or maybe not, he is fighting only with manufactured weapons, i think that has something to say?
babysamurai 07-25-06, 08:50 AM	Actually, both greatswords would get the full 1.5 str bonus. The PHB states that you get 1.5 str bonus on a 2-handed weapon when you wield it with both hands. It does not state that you have to use your main hand to do so. Thus, you still get 1.5 str bonus on the greatsword wielded with your 2 off-hands. :) Nice.
Novacat 07-25-06, 09:50 AM	I'd say you still need Multiweapon Fighting to cover this. Not sure if you have any reason to think this, but even so, a Thri-kreen can take Multiweapon Fighting in place of Two Weapon Fighting anyways. Also, you don't NEED either feat. These feats don't ALLOW fighting with multiple weapons, just reduce the penalties for doing so. That said, I still think you're wrong.
runestar 07-25-06, 10:01 AM	Not sure if you have any reason to think this, but even so, a Thri-kreen can take Multiweapon Fighting in place of Two Weapon Fighting anyways. Also, you don't NEED either feat. These feats don't ALLOW fighting with multiple weapons, just reduce the penalties for doing so. However, the penalties for not doing so are so bad that you will want to take TWF anyways, or risk not ever hitting with your attacks. :(
TheDragonmaster 07-25-06, 11:17 AM	They would be able to wield two greatswords, but only 1 of them would get x 1.5 Str bonus, while the second would get x 1 Str bonus. No matter how many arms you have, you still only have one “primary” hand, and all the others are “off-hands”. Thank you. That is more or less what I thought, and more or less it makes sense. I'm probably going to rule this way... But what I’m wondering is; would Two-Weapon Fighting be enough to pull this off, or would you still need Multi-Weapon Fighting, because you are fighting with more than 2 arms? Seeing that there is no reason at all to take TWF when you can take MWF, since it helps on every case exept one weapon, I think that I will ignore this post :P . Actually, both greatswords would get the full 1.5 str bonus. The PHB states that you get 1.5 str bonus on a 2-handed weapon when you wield it with both hands. It does not state that you have to use your main hand to do so. Thus, you still get 1.5 str bonus on the greatsword wielded with your 2 off-hands. The PH (as it is abbreviated, even if it sounds wrong) states things that applies only to very limited and focused areas anyways, and gives no explanation to the mechanics behind it (for example, read page 134 (and again at 135), on Armor Class (it specifically states that you only add shield, armor, Dex and size to armor, and thus that no Natural Armor or Deflection is added, for example))... The point is, that this just feels so wrong :noway: . I'd say you still need Multiweapon Fighting to cover this. Yes. or maybe not, he is fighting only with manufactured weapons, i think that has something to say? I fail to see of what importance this is. Quote: Originally Posted by Sik I'd say you still need Multiweapon Fighting to cover this. Not sure if you have any reason to think this, but even so, a Thri-kreen can take Multiweapon Fighting in place of Two Weapon Fighting anyways. Also, you don't NEED either feat. These feats don't ALLOW fighting with multiple weapons, just reduce the penalties for doing so. That said, I still think you're wrong. I refer to my answer to babysamurai's second post. Quote: Not sure if you have any reason to think this, but even so, a Thri-kreen can take Multiweapon Fighting in place of Two Weapon Fighting anyways. Also, you don't NEED either feat. These feats don't ALLOW fighting with multiple weapons, just reduce the penalties for doing so. However, the penalties for not doing so are so bad that you will want to take TWF anyways, or risk not ever hitting with your attacks. I don't think that is the point he is making... Thank you for all input, and I think I am sticking with the ruling of babysamurai, as it is both in line with normal 2-Hander vs. Dual-Wield arguments and the ruling for using a three-handed Greatsword (Three or More Hands, Page 42, Savage Species). Again, thanks!