+2 Bow and +1 arrow =? [Archive] - Wizards Community

+2 Bow and +1 arrow =? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ZenZ
03-19-07, 11:37 PM Okay maybe this is simple but if you have a magical bow and fire a magical arrow do the bonuses stack? Both "hit" and "damage"? I think the rules say no.

How about if the Bow has say Frost and the arrow has Bane do they stack. This time I think yes.
Despana
03-19-07, 11:41 PM Okay maybe this is simple but if you have a magical bow and fire a magical arrow do the bonuses stack? Both "hit" and "damage"? I think the rules say no.
No, use the higher of the two. In the example you'd have a +2 to hit and damage.
How about if the Bow has say Frost and the arrow has Bane do they stack. This time I think yes.
Yes, you would get both effects.
mugguod
03-19-07, 11:48 PM Despana say trvth!
runestar
03-20-07, 01:53 AM On a side note, what if you fire a +1 flaming arrow from a +1 flaming bow?
Do you still get only a +1 flaming arrow, or a +1 flaming, flaming arrow?:P
Despana
03-20-07, 04:20 AM Well, that's something you'd have to ask your DM (or decide for yourself in the instance you are the DM).

Warning! Opinion only after this line! Warning!
I'd say it is just like trying to put flaming on the same weapon twice, which (also imo) doesn't work. Stacking things from the same source and all that.

My DM allows it on bows/arrows but not on non-projectile weapons (no +1 Flaming Flaming Longsword for example).

I've heard of others who allow you to get as much of the same energy as you can afford.

*shrug* YDMMV
Tamerlane
03-20-07, 04:25 AM Okay maybe this is simple but if you have a magical bow and fire a magical arrow do the bonuses stack? Both "hit" and "damage"? I think the rules say no.

Bonuses of the same type do not stack, they overlap. Take the better of the two enhancement bonuses to hit and damage.

How about if the Bow has say Frost and the arrow has Bane do they stack. This time I think yes.
These do stack.

On a side note, what if you fire a +1 flaming arrow from a +1 flaming bow?
Do you still get only a +1 flaming arrow, or a +1 flaming, flaming arrow?
I think you get a pile of ash where your quiver used to be :D

Now that I think about it though... I hear there is an augment crystal in the MIC that adds energy damage. So perhaps a flaming flaming arrow would have the same effects as a second tier energy crystal.
DrMorganes
03-20-07, 04:33 AM On a side note, what if you fire a +1 flaming arrow from a +1 flaming bow?
Do you still get only a +1 flaming arrow, or a +1 flaming, flaming arrow?:P

Still only a +1 flaming arrow.
runestar
03-20-07, 06:51 AM And now for the million dollar question...
What if a +1 flaming arrow was fired from a +1 flaming burst bow?
Do you get a +1 flaming, flaming burst arrow, or just a +1 flaming burst arrow?

Before you answer, remember this...
Flaming Burst: A flaming burst weapon functions as a flaming weapon that also explodes with flame upon striking a successful critical hit. The fire does not harm the wielder. In addition to the extra fire damage from the flaming ability (see above), a flaming burst weapon deals an extra 1d10 points of fire damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon’s critical multiplier is x3, add an extra 2d10 points of fire damage instead, and if the multiplier is x4, add an extra 3d10 points of fire damage. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the fire energy upon their ammunition.
Even if the flaming ability is not active, the weapon still deals its extra fire damage on a successful critical hit.
Strong evocation; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Price +2 bonus.
Tamerlane
03-20-07, 06:58 AM And now for the million dollar question...
What if a +1 flaming arrow was fired from a +1 flaming burst bow?
Do you get a +1 flaming, flaming burst arrow, or just a +1 flaming burst arrow?

Quite simple. Your flaming arrow prematurely ignites the flaming burst ability, causing your flaming burst bow to erupt in your hands, dealing damage as a fireball cast by a 12th level wizard.

RAW, the correct answer is just a +1 flaming burst arrow. There's no real reason for a generous DM not to allow them to stack for 2d6 extra damage though, in my opinion. If this came up in my campaign I would file it under "Clever idea, adventurer. I'll let it work.. once."
stackmachine
03-20-07, 08:09 AM On a side note, what if you fire a +1 flaming arrow from a +1 flaming bow?
Do you still get only a +1 flaming arrow, or a +1 flaming, flaming arrow?:P

as a DM i'd say it still does only 1d6 fire damage, but on the upside the flames are really shiny :).
Zherog
03-20-07, 11:36 AM Despana say trvth!

Unless you're playing with the 3.0 rules, in which case the explicitly stack so that you would receive +3 to hit and damage.
mvincent
03-20-07, 12:57 PM Warning! Opinion only after this line! Warning!
I'd say it is just like trying to put flaming on the same weapon twice, which (also imo) doesn't work. Stacking things from the same source and all that.There have been numerous (long) debates on the subject. Here is a link to a recent one (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=777178) (most earlier ones have been purged). I agree that this was likely the designer's intent.
mvincent
03-20-07, 01:12 PM So...
What if you cast the Flame Arrow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/flameArrow.htm) spell on +1 Flaming, Flaming Burst arrows used with a +2 Flaming, Flaming Burst bow?

... which is then fired with a flaming sphere imbued on it (via the Arcane Archer's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneArcher.htm) Imbue Arrow ability)

... and the arrows also have fireseeds glued to them (using a hot glue gun)

... and a Continual Flame spell cast on them.
Zherog
03-20-07, 01:15 PM You forgot to make your arrow an "alchemist's arrow" which I believe can be found in Arms and Equiment Guide. Basically, when the arrow hits, it breaks open to spill out alchemist's fire. :D
mvincent
03-20-07, 01:30 PM You forgot to make your arrow an "alchemist's arrow"Now you're just getting carried away.

That's silly.
Zherog
03-20-07, 01:31 PM :D
Chrono Nexus
03-20-07, 01:36 PM +1 Frost bow and +1 Flaming arrows = Lukewarm arrow of discomfort.
Despana
03-20-07, 01:45 PM Unless you're playing with the 3.0 rules, in which case the explicitly stack so that you would receive +3 to hit and damage.

Not quite. In 3.0 the bow determined the bonus to hit and the arrow the bonus to damage. So it would be +2 to hit and +1 damage.
cwslyclgh
03-20-07, 01:51 PM Not quite. In 3.0 the bow determined the bonus to hit and the arrow the bonus to damage. So it would be +2 to hit and +1 damage.

my 3.0 DMG page 183, disagrees with this statement and agrees with what Zherog said.

a +1 bow firing a +1 arrow contributes +2 to the attack roll and damage roll, (however you consider the arrow alone for purposes of overcoming damage reduction).

again this only applies to 3.0
Zherog
03-20-07, 01:57 PM Yep. Sounds like you either misremember or had a house rule, Despana.
mvincent
03-20-07, 02:01 PM my 3.0 DMG page 183, disagrees with this statement and agrees with what Zherog said.Agreed. The 3.0 SRD (http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html) says:
"Different named bonus types all stack, but usually a named bonus does not stack with another bonus of the same name (except for enhancement bonuses to armor and shields, enhancement bonuses to ranged weapons and their ammunition"
and
"Ranged Weapons and Ammunition
Masterwork ranged weapon bonuses to attack and masterwork ammunition (arrows, crossbow bolts, and sling bullets) attack bonuses stack with each other (but not with enhancement bonuses)."
Despana
03-20-07, 02:24 PM Huh. I sit corrected (too sick to stand :P).

Where the heck did I get that from?
cwslyclgh
03-20-07, 02:29 PM (too sick to stand ).
hope you feel better soon :)
Zherog
03-20-07, 02:36 PM Again I agree with Wesley. This seems to be a habit today... ;)

I've heard the method you mentioned tossed around as a house rule more than once. So that's a possibility.
ZenZ
03-20-07, 09:53 PM What about a Frost Bow and a Flame Burst Arrow?

Can they both occur?
runestar
03-20-07, 09:59 PM Yep, they should both apply.:)
LonePaladin
03-21-07, 02:01 AM The enhancement bonuses for ranged weapons and their ammunition don't stack; just use the higher of the two.

As for additional properties, they do stack, as long as they don't conflict or overlap. Any 'burst' properties already include the basic elemental damage (i.e., a flaming burst weapon is already a flaming weapon), and therefore wouldn't overlap. There really aren't any abilities that contradict each other, though, so you can stack a LOT of add-ons this way.

So, if you're using a +3 anarchic shocking burst keen longbow, and you fire a +1 axiomatic icy burst arrow of undead bane, you get all those properties together, but only the +3 to hit and damage.

(Yes, you can have an anarchic axiomatic weapon. Anyone who is either lawful or chaotic is at risk with that weapon.)
The WarOverlord
03-21-07, 07:36 AM Okay maybe this is simple but if you have a magical bow and fire a magical arrow do the bonuses stack? Both "hit" and "damage"? I think the rules say no.

How about if the Bow has say Frost and the arrow has Bane do they stack. This time I think yes.

The Bow grants +2 to attack (as you don't hit someone with the bow), and the Arrow causes 1 point damage in addition to regular damage on impact (as the damaging part of the BOw and Arrow weapon), and will hurt creatures that require +1 weapons to hit. (A +2 creature wouldn't take damage as though the bow is +2, it is +2 to attack, not Hit which the +1 arrow does)

A bow that causes a type of damage isn't too common but usually magically makes it's arrows as a infinity bow rather then imbuing something drawn on it with frost damage ability as a temporary enchantment (An infinity bow wouldn't usually allow regular arrows to be drawn on it either, and cost of creating a BOw that could empower an arrow with damage effects would be pricey)
Zherog
03-21-07, 08:46 AM The Bow grants +2 to attack (as you don't hit someone with the bow), and the Arrow causes 1 point damage in addition to regular damage on impact (as the damaging part of the BOw and Arrow weapon),

This is wrong, in both 3.0 and 3.5.

and will hurt creatures that require +1 weapons to hit. (A +2 creature wouldn't take damage as though the bow is +2, it is +2 to attack, not Hit which the +1 arrow does)

I have no clue what you mean by a "+2 creature." If you're referring to DR values, only 3.0 DR uses enhancement bonus to determine DR; and in 3.0, it's the enhancement on the arrow that matters.

Also, "to hit" and "attack" are the same thing.

A bow that causes a type of damage isn't too common but usually magically makes it's arrows as a infinity bow rather then imbuing something drawn on it with frost damage ability as a temporary enchantment (An infinity bow wouldn't usually allow regular arrows to be drawn on it either, and cost of creating a BOw that could empower an arrow with damage effects would be pricey)

Again, I don't know what you're talking about. Most enhancements (such as energy damage) transfer the property to the arrow when fired. And a magically enhanced bow doesn't cost any more than a magically enhanced sword.

So, in summary, you're incorrect. :)
runestar
03-21-07, 09:03 AM Again, I don't know what you're talking about. Most enhancements (such as energy damage) transfer the property to the arrow when fired. And a magically enhanced bow doesn't cost any more than a magically enhanced sword.
From what I can gather, what he is trying to say is that a +1 frost bow could create its own "frost arrows" which deal only +1d6 cold damage. :confused:
mvincent
03-21-07, 12:07 PM if you're using a +3 anarchic shocking burst keen longbow, and you fire a +1 axiomatic icy burst arrow of undead bane, you get all those properties together, but only the +3 to hit and damage.Here's another brain teaser:
If a +1 evil-outsider bane bow fired a +1 chaotic-outsider bane arrow at a demon, what would be the to-hit and damage bonuses?

"Bane
A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the bane quality upon their ammunition."
Zherog
03-21-07, 12:46 PM +3 to hit and damage, +4d6 bonus damage.

Bane increases the enhancement to 2 above the normal bonus for the weapon.
jadehawk
03-21-07, 06:46 PM +1 Frost bow and +1 Flaming arrows = Lukewarm arrow of discomfort.

That's hilarious...some flavour text should suggest that it is the quickest fever attack you've ever felt.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ZenZ 03-19-07, 11:37 PM	Okay maybe this is simple but if you have a magical bow and fire a magical arrow do the bonuses stack? Both "hit" and "damage"? I think the rules say no. How about if the Bow has say Frost and the arrow has Bane do they stack. This time I think yes.
Despana 03-19-07, 11:41 PM	Okay maybe this is simple but if you have a magical bow and fire a magical arrow do the bonuses stack? Both "hit" and "damage"? I think the rules say no. No, use the higher of the two. In the example you'd have a +2 to hit and damage. How about if the Bow has say Frost and the arrow has Bane do they stack. This time I think yes. Yes, you would get both effects.
mugguod 03-19-07, 11:48 PM	Despana say trvth!
runestar 03-20-07, 01:53 AM	On a side note, what if you fire a +1 flaming arrow from a +1 flaming bow? Do you still get only a +1 flaming arrow, or a +1 flaming, flaming arrow?:P
Despana 03-20-07, 04:20 AM	Well, that's something you'd have to ask your DM (or decide for yourself in the instance you are the DM). Warning! Opinion only after this line! Warning! I'd say it is just like trying to put flaming on the same weapon twice, which (also imo) doesn't work. Stacking things from the same source and all that. My DM allows it on bows/arrows but not on non-projectile weapons (no +1 Flaming Flaming Longsword for example). I've heard of others who allow you to get as much of the same energy as you can afford. shrug YDMMV
Tamerlane 03-20-07, 04:25 AM	Okay maybe this is simple but if you have a magical bow and fire a magical arrow do the bonuses stack? Both "hit" and "damage"? I think the rules say no. Bonuses of the same type do not stack, they overlap. Take the better of the two enhancement bonuses to hit and damage. How about if the Bow has say Frost and the arrow has Bane do they stack. This time I think yes. These do stack. On a side note, what if you fire a +1 flaming arrow from a +1 flaming bow? Do you still get only a +1 flaming arrow, or a +1 flaming, flaming arrow? I think you get a pile of ash where your quiver used to be :D Now that I think about it though... I hear there is an augment crystal in the MIC that adds energy damage. So perhaps a flaming flaming arrow would have the same effects as a second tier energy crystal.
DrMorganes 03-20-07, 04:33 AM	On a side note, what if you fire a +1 flaming arrow from a +1 flaming bow? Do you still get only a +1 flaming arrow, or a +1 flaming, flaming arrow?:P Still only a +1 flaming arrow.
runestar 03-20-07, 06:51 AM	And now for the million dollar question... What if a +1 flaming arrow was fired from a +1 flaming burst bow? Do you get a +1 flaming, flaming burst arrow, or just a +1 flaming burst arrow? Before you answer, remember this... Flaming Burst: A flaming burst weapon functions as a flaming weapon that also explodes with flame upon striking a successful critical hit. The fire does not harm the wielder. In addition to the extra fire damage from the flaming ability (see above), a flaming burst weapon deals an extra 1d10 points of fire damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon’s critical multiplier is x3, add an extra 2d10 points of fire damage instead, and if the multiplier is x4, add an extra 3d10 points of fire damage. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the fire energy upon their ammunition. Even if the flaming ability is not active, the weapon still deals its extra fire damage on a successful critical hit. Strong evocation; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Price +2 bonus.
Tamerlane 03-20-07, 06:58 AM	And now for the million dollar question... What if a +1 flaming arrow was fired from a +1 flaming burst bow? Do you get a +1 flaming, flaming burst arrow, or just a +1 flaming burst arrow? Quite simple. Your flaming arrow prematurely ignites the flaming burst ability, causing your flaming burst bow to erupt in your hands, dealing damage as a fireball cast by a 12th level wizard. RAW, the correct answer is just a +1 flaming burst arrow. There's no real reason for a generous DM not to allow them to stack for 2d6 extra damage though, in my opinion. If this came up in my campaign I would file it under "Clever idea, adventurer. I'll let it work.. once."
stackmachine 03-20-07, 08:09 AM	On a side note, what if you fire a +1 flaming arrow from a +1 flaming bow? Do you still get only a +1 flaming arrow, or a +1 flaming, flaming arrow?:P as a DM i'd say it still does only 1d6 fire damage, but on the upside the flames are really shiny :).
Zherog 03-20-07, 11:36 AM	Despana say trvth! Unless you're playing with the 3.0 rules, in which case the explicitly stack so that you would receive +3 to hit and damage.
mvincent 03-20-07, 12:57 PM	Warning! Opinion only after this line! Warning! I'd say it is just like trying to put flaming on the same weapon twice, which (also imo) doesn't work. Stacking things from the same source and all that.There have been numerous (long) debates on the subject. Here is a link to a recent one (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=777178) (most earlier ones have been purged). I agree that this was likely the designer's intent.
mvincent 03-20-07, 01:12 PM	So... What if you cast the Flame Arrow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/flameArrow.htm) spell on +1 Flaming, Flaming Burst arrows used with a +2 Flaming, Flaming Burst bow? ... which is then fired with a flaming sphere imbued on it (via the Arcane Archer's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneArcher.htm) Imbue Arrow ability) ... and the arrows also have fireseeds glued to them (using a hot glue gun) ... and a Continual Flame spell cast on them.
Zherog 03-20-07, 01:15 PM	You forgot to make your arrow an "alchemist's arrow" which I believe can be found in Arms and Equiment Guide. Basically, when the arrow hits, it breaks open to spill out alchemist's fire. :D
mvincent 03-20-07, 01:30 PM	You forgot to make your arrow an "alchemist's arrow"Now you're just getting carried away. That's silly.
Zherog 03-20-07, 01:31 PM	:D
Chrono Nexus 03-20-07, 01:36 PM	+1 Frost bow and +1 Flaming arrows = Lukewarm arrow of discomfort.
Despana 03-20-07, 01:45 PM	Unless you're playing with the 3.0 rules, in which case the explicitly stack so that you would receive +3 to hit and damage. Not quite. In 3.0 the bow determined the bonus to hit and the arrow the bonus to damage. So it would be +2 to hit and +1 damage.
cwslyclgh 03-20-07, 01:51 PM	Not quite. In 3.0 the bow determined the bonus to hit and the arrow the bonus to damage. So it would be +2 to hit and +1 damage. my 3.0 DMG page 183, disagrees with this statement and agrees with what Zherog said. a +1 bow firing a +1 arrow contributes +2 to the attack roll and damage roll, (however you consider the arrow alone for purposes of overcoming damage reduction). again this only applies to 3.0
Zherog 03-20-07, 01:57 PM	Yep. Sounds like you either misremember or had a house rule, Despana.
mvincent 03-20-07, 02:01 PM	my 3.0 DMG page 183, disagrees with this statement and agrees with what Zherog said.Agreed. The 3.0 SRD (http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html) says: "Different named bonus types all stack, but usually a named bonus does not stack with another bonus of the same name (except for enhancement bonuses to armor and shields, enhancement bonuses to ranged weapons and their ammunition" and "Ranged Weapons and Ammunition Masterwork ranged weapon bonuses to attack and masterwork ammunition (arrows, crossbow bolts, and sling bullets) attack bonuses stack with each other (but not with enhancement bonuses)."
Despana 03-20-07, 02:24 PM	Huh. I sit corrected (too sick to stand :P). Where the heck did I get that from?
cwslyclgh 03-20-07, 02:29 PM	(too sick to stand ). hope you feel better soon :)
Zherog 03-20-07, 02:36 PM	Again I agree with Wesley. This seems to be a habit today... ;) I've heard the method you mentioned tossed around as a house rule more than once. So that's a possibility.
ZenZ 03-20-07, 09:53 PM	What about a Frost Bow and a Flame Burst Arrow? Can they both occur?
runestar 03-20-07, 09:59 PM	Yep, they should both apply.:)
LonePaladin 03-21-07, 02:01 AM	The enhancement bonuses for ranged weapons and their ammunition don't stack; just use the higher of the two. As for additional properties, they do stack, as long as they don't conflict or overlap. Any 'burst' properties already include the basic elemental damage (i.e., a flaming burst weapon is already a flaming weapon), and therefore wouldn't overlap. There really aren't any abilities that contradict each other, though, so you can stack a LOT of add-ons this way. So, if you're using a +3 anarchic shocking burst keen longbow, and you fire a +1 axiomatic icy burst arrow of undead bane, you get all those properties together, but only the +3 to hit and damage. (Yes, you can have an anarchic axiomatic weapon. Anyone who is either lawful or chaotic is at risk with that weapon.)
The WarOverlord 03-21-07, 07:36 AM	Okay maybe this is simple but if you have a magical bow and fire a magical arrow do the bonuses stack? Both "hit" and "damage"? I think the rules say no. How about if the Bow has say Frost and the arrow has Bane do they stack. This time I think yes. The Bow grants +2 to attack (as you don't hit someone with the bow), and the Arrow causes 1 point damage in addition to regular damage on impact (as the damaging part of the BOw and Arrow weapon), and will hurt creatures that require +1 weapons to hit. (A +2 creature wouldn't take damage as though the bow is +2, it is +2 to attack, not Hit which the +1 arrow does) A bow that causes a type of damage isn't too common but usually magically makes it's arrows as a infinity bow rather then imbuing something drawn on it with frost damage ability as a temporary enchantment (An infinity bow wouldn't usually allow regular arrows to be drawn on it either, and cost of creating a BOw that could empower an arrow with damage effects would be pricey)
Zherog 03-21-07, 08:46 AM	The Bow grants +2 to attack (as you don't hit someone with the bow), and the Arrow causes 1 point damage in addition to regular damage on impact (as the damaging part of the BOw and Arrow weapon), This is wrong, in both 3.0 and 3.5. and will hurt creatures that require +1 weapons to hit. (A +2 creature wouldn't take damage as though the bow is +2, it is +2 to attack, not Hit which the +1 arrow does) I have no clue what you mean by a "+2 creature." If you're referring to DR values, only 3.0 DR uses enhancement bonus to determine DR; and in 3.0, it's the enhancement on the arrow that matters. Also, "to hit" and "attack" are the same thing. A bow that causes a type of damage isn't too common but usually magically makes it's arrows as a infinity bow rather then imbuing something drawn on it with frost damage ability as a temporary enchantment (An infinity bow wouldn't usually allow regular arrows to be drawn on it either, and cost of creating a BOw that could empower an arrow with damage effects would be pricey) Again, I don't know what you're talking about. Most enhancements (such as energy damage) transfer the property to the arrow when fired. And a magically enhanced bow doesn't cost any more than a magically enhanced sword. So, in summary, you're incorrect. :)
runestar 03-21-07, 09:03 AM	Again, I don't know what you're talking about. Most enhancements (such as energy damage) transfer the property to the arrow when fired. And a magically enhanced bow doesn't cost any more than a magically enhanced sword. From what I can gather, what he is trying to say is that a +1 frost bow could create its own "frost arrows" which deal only +1d6 cold damage. :confused:
mvincent 03-21-07, 12:07 PM	if you're using a +3 anarchic shocking burst keen longbow, and you fire a +1 axiomatic icy burst arrow of undead bane, you get all those properties together, but only the +3 to hit and damage.Here's another brain teaser: If a +1 evil-outsider bane bow fired a +1 chaotic-outsider bane arrow at a demon, what would be the to-hit and damage bonuses? "Bane A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the bane quality upon their ammunition."
Zherog 03-21-07, 12:46 PM	+3 to hit and damage, +4d6 bonus damage. Bane increases the enhancement to 2 above the normal bonus for the weapon.
jadehawk 03-21-07, 06:46 PM	+1 Frost bow and +1 Flaming arrows = Lukewarm arrow of discomfort. That's hilarious...some flavour text should suggest that it is the quickest fever attack you've ever felt.