2 Rules questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

2 Rules questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rangermutt
09-07-05, 09:38 AM I'm actually curious about 2 separate battle tactics issues. I've looked for answers to these questions, but haven't been able to find anything in the core materials.

1) When using a polearm that allows and a readied action to set against a charge, as uccessful hit means you deal double damage... but, does it also stop the charge on contact like how a successful attack of opportunity will normally stop whatever action the the provoker was taking?

2) When using a trip attack, I can't find what happens if the 2 combatants have equal end results on the opposed rolls. This roll is different from a standard opposed strength as the defender can use either strength or dexterity modifiers, and whereas other feats explain what to do in a tie (normally the person with the higher total modifiers wins), the description for Improved Trip do not specify whether this is the case or you must re-roll.

If this info exists somewhere and I've simply missed it, could someone pm me and let me know where it is please?

Any help with these issues would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
peanut35
09-07-05, 10:00 AM As for point 1, the AoO doesn't always prevent the attacker from their action, it works for grapples, trips, and bullrushes. Which is why the improved feats exist, to negate this AoO. However, if an enemy is just walking through a threatened square of yours, and you successfully hit them with an AoO, this does NOT stop them from continuing moving next to you and attacking you. On a charge, they are not stopped in their tracks with successful damage, the way to stop them is to kill them with that AoO.

Normally there is no AoO for a charge, as the action Charge, itself, does not provoke an AoO. However, what is provoking the AoO is the fact that the charging person enters and then leaves a threatened square of yours. Since this is the case, the opponent will not be stopped, as this is a movement provoked AoO not an Action provoked AoO.
Rangermutt
09-07-05, 10:17 AM Okay. But I wasn't actually thinking of the AofO for moving through the threatened space. I was talking more of the readied action to set against a charge. I assumed (yes, I know that's usually a bad thing) that since there is so much preparation involved, ie: seeing the threat of a possible charge beforehand and giving up your turn to ready against that possible threat (which may not even take place), that this method may grant the additional bonus of stopping the charge, like how some other attacks stop whatever the other combatant was trying to do. My logic being that when some people hunt boar, for example, a popular method is to set a spear against their charge and cause them to impale themselves at the last second. The boar rarely makes it close enough to attack, and I thought this tactic was based on that method. I was just wondering if WotC had answered this question anywhere as we only use official rulings in our game and right now the house ruling is thhat it does NOT stop the charge unless somebody can find a printed ruling to the contarary.

Thanks for the input.
Nom
09-07-05, 10:41 AM Opposed checks are covered on PH pg 64. Technically this is talking about skill checks, but as you can see from PH pg 66 an ability check is merely a special case of a skill check. In the case of a tie, higher mod wins. If mods are also the same, reroll.

A readied action might stop the charge due to sheer damage, but otherwise an AoO or readied action only prevents the original action if it either explicitly says it does or makes it impossible to complete the original action.

If you particularly want to stop someone, you're generally better to Trip them than to try to deal bulk damage.
Rangermutt
09-07-05, 10:51 AM Thanks Nom.

As for the opposed check... my DM wasn't running it as a regular opposed and since the Imroved Trip feat doesn't specify what to do in a tie (like Improved Grapple does) he was making us re-roll.

As for the charge issue, I do have improved Trip, so it does make more sense to use it in that situation. I just thought that perhaps we were missing something in the rules since it didn't make sense that someone could charge into the end of a polearm, take massive damage, and just finish the charge and attack.

Thanks again for your help, and sorry about the wrong forum thing.
SureFoot
09-07-05, 11:49 AM I just thought that perhaps we were missing something in the rules since it didn't make sense that someone could charge into the end of a polearm, take massive damage, and just finish the charge and attack.

Ever see the movie Excalibur? Specifically, what Mordrid does to Arthur, and what Arthur does in return??? Granted, it wasn't a charge per se, but still, you get the idea.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rangermutt 09-07-05, 09:38 AM	I'm actually curious about 2 separate battle tactics issues. I've looked for answers to these questions, but haven't been able to find anything in the core materials. 1) When using a polearm that allows and a readied action to set against a charge, as uccessful hit means you deal double damage... but, does it also stop the charge on contact like how a successful attack of opportunity will normally stop whatever action the the provoker was taking? 2) When using a trip attack, I can't find what happens if the 2 combatants have equal end results on the opposed rolls. This roll is different from a standard opposed strength as the defender can use either strength or dexterity modifiers, and whereas other feats explain what to do in a tie (normally the person with the higher total modifiers wins), the description for Improved Trip do not specify whether this is the case or you must re-roll. If this info exists somewhere and I've simply missed it, could someone pm me and let me know where it is please? Any help with these issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
peanut35 09-07-05, 10:00 AM	As for point 1, the AoO doesn't always prevent the attacker from their action, it works for grapples, trips, and bullrushes. Which is why the improved feats exist, to negate this AoO. However, if an enemy is just walking through a threatened square of yours, and you successfully hit them with an AoO, this does NOT stop them from continuing moving next to you and attacking you. On a charge, they are not stopped in their tracks with successful damage, the way to stop them is to kill them with that AoO. Normally there is no AoO for a charge, as the action Charge, itself, does not provoke an AoO. However, what is provoking the AoO is the fact that the charging person enters and then leaves a threatened square of yours. Since this is the case, the opponent will not be stopped, as this is a movement provoked AoO not an Action provoked AoO.
Rangermutt 09-07-05, 10:17 AM	Okay. But I wasn't actually thinking of the AofO for moving through the threatened space. I was talking more of the readied action to set against a charge. I assumed (yes, I know that's usually a bad thing) that since there is so much preparation involved, ie: seeing the threat of a possible charge beforehand and giving up your turn to ready against that possible threat (which may not even take place), that this method may grant the additional bonus of stopping the charge, like how some other attacks stop whatever the other combatant was trying to do. My logic being that when some people hunt boar, for example, a popular method is to set a spear against their charge and cause them to impale themselves at the last second. The boar rarely makes it close enough to attack, and I thought this tactic was based on that method. I was just wondering if WotC had answered this question anywhere as we only use official rulings in our game and right now the house ruling is thhat it does NOT stop the charge unless somebody can find a printed ruling to the contarary. Thanks for the input.
Nom 09-07-05, 10:41 AM	Opposed checks are covered on PH pg 64. Technically this is talking about skill checks, but as you can see from PH pg 66 an ability check is merely a special case of a skill check. In the case of a tie, higher mod wins. If mods are also the same, reroll. A readied action might stop the charge due to sheer damage, but otherwise an AoO or readied action only prevents the original action if it either explicitly says it does or makes it impossible to complete the original action. If you particularly want to stop someone, you're generally better to Trip them than to try to deal bulk damage.
Rangermutt 09-07-05, 10:51 AM	Thanks Nom. As for the opposed check... my DM wasn't running it as a regular opposed and since the Imroved Trip feat doesn't specify what to do in a tie (like Improved Grapple does) he was making us re-roll. As for the charge issue, I do have improved Trip, so it does make more sense to use it in that situation. I just thought that perhaps we were missing something in the rules since it didn't make sense that someone could charge into the end of a polearm, take massive damage, and just finish the charge and attack. Thanks again for your help, and sorry about the wrong forum thing.
SureFoot 09-07-05, 11:49 AM	I just thought that perhaps we were missing something in the rules since it didn't make sense that someone could charge into the end of a polearm, take massive damage, and just finish the charge and attack. Ever see the movie Excalibur? Specifically, what Mordrid does to Arthur, and what Arthur does in return??? Granted, it wasn't a charge per se, but still, you get the idea.