25% of total wealth on a single item? [Archive] - Wizards Community

25% of total wealth on a single item? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
_Chaz_
11-20-07, 06:16 PM Apparently I can't go over it for my level 4 Ninja to have a +1 Enfeebling Katana. Anyone know what book and page this rules in or if it's a houserule we've read and just stuck to?
tyrecian
11-20-07, 06:28 PM I am pretty sure that rule is outlined in the Dungeon Master's Guide. I don't have my books with me, and the SRD online does not provide that information, but i remember it from PC creation in particularly nasty campaigns and it is correct, a PC gets the money, but cannot spend more than 25% on a single item.
Krusk
11-20-07, 08:08 PM There no set rule that says it, but it is a common houseule. Its also not a good idea to spend most of your total starting money on one item, so you might want to consider abiding by it.

Huge +X sword = no armor or stat boosters

Huge armor= No sword

A nice balance means decent sword and armor.
Legdiwena
11-20-07, 08:12 PM I thought it was one item at 50% and no other item above 25%?
Scion of Coldshard
11-20-07, 08:16 PM I usually just assume no more than half of the wealth on a single item, unless there is a really good reason for it.
Bopple
11-20-07, 08:23 PM AFAIK, there are two mentions about it.
The one says 50%. The other says 25%.
IIRC, the former is more of a rule, while the latter is more of a suggestion.

Edit) I found the latter. It's in DMG, pp199. I cannot find the former, but I am pretty sure it's out there somewhere.
risner
11-20-07, 08:33 PM Apparently I can't go over it for my level 4 Ninja to have a +1 Enfeebling Katana. Anyone know what book and page this rules in or if it's a houserule we've read and just stuck to?

DMG page 42 says no more than 50% on one item and no more than 25% on consumables (arrows, scrolls, wands, etc.)

DMG page 199 says you could make a nice house rule of 25% max per item.
highbulp
11-20-07, 08:45 PM I've heard the 50% rule before, but ignoring that won't break the game. Within 2 levels you can afford the same item, and I can't believe that there is some item that will break that game at level X but is perfectly reasonable at level X+2.

That being said, spreading your money around can still be a good policy (though having a super awesome sword can be fun too) :)
Legdiwena
11-20-07, 08:47 PM Are you starting at lvl 4 or have you been adventuring and just made it to there?
rironin
11-20-07, 08:48 PM Creating PCs Above 1st Level: Magic Items as Gear

"...you can exercise an item-by-item veto, but an easier method is to use maximum cost for a single item as a limit. For example, ... you can limit [the PC] to owning no single item worth more than one-quarter of [his total wealth]. This is a good way to prevent imbalances such as an 8th-level fighter with hardly a copper piece to his name who is armed with a nine lives stealer."It is a suggestion rather than a rule, but as others have said, it is a good suggestion, for both the players' and the DM's sakes.

The Magic Item Compendium adds a slightly different note as to appropriate treasure:Placing Magic Items

"Conversely, an item worth more than 50% of a character's expected wealth is almost certainly too big a chunk to swallow all at once..."This is meant more as a suggestion for DMs placing treasure, rather than PCs building a high level character from scratch. It goes on to say that most players would rather sell such items in order to buy multiple smaller items.
risner
11-20-07, 11:56 PM It is a suggestion rather than a rule, but as others have said, it is a good suggestion, for both the players' and the DM's sakes.

While the info on page 199 is a suggestion, the passage on page 42 is a "general rule" and not a suggestion.
ToastedAmphibian
11-21-07, 01:11 AM While the info on page 199 is a suggestion, the passage on page 42 is a "general rule" and not a suggestion.

"General Rule"="Sugestion"*1.0073
rironin
11-21-07, 01:30 AM While the info on page 199 is a suggestion, the passage on page 42 is a "general rule" and not a suggestion.Bah, sorry about that risner, I both missed your post, and was also not aware of the passage on page 42. Haven't had occasion to read up on what the DMG says about Character Death, apparently.
Merestil Haye
11-21-07, 01:46 AM Both passages are discussing the creation of new characters who are created at above first level. Neither are generally applicable to PCs who have been played up from lower levels.

What your DM wants to do is up to him, of course, but applying either of those two guidelines to a PC who has been played up is taking them out of context.
Bopple
11-21-07, 02:31 AM Well, OP mentioned of a +2 magic weapon. I thought it's far from likely that a 4th lvl character has money to buy one, if he started from 1st level. Thus, I(and it seems most here, too) assumed that he is starting a 4th lvl campaign.

Now that I rechecked DMG, I found the standard wealth of 4th level character is only 5,400gp. *scratch* +2 katana is worth 8,335gp. You cannot buy one at 4th lvl, be your starting level 1st lvl or 4th lvl.
Merestil Haye
11-21-07, 07:53 AM Well, OP mentioned of a +2 magic weapon. I thought it's far from likely that a 4th lvl character has money to buy one, if he started from 1st level. Thus, I(and it seems most here, too) assumed that he is starting a 4th lvl campaign.I made exactly the opposite assumption - that he'd been played up, and that his group had had a big treasure find.

Now that I rechecked DMG, I found the standard wealth of 4th level character is only 5,400gp. *scratch* +2 katana is worth 8,335gp. You cannot buy one at 4th lvl, be your starting level 1st lvl or 4th lvl.I don't know Enfeebling off the top of my head - where is it from?
Bopple
11-21-07, 08:35 AM I made exactly the opposite assumption - that he'd been played up, and that his group had had a big treasure find.
Actually, the rule/suggestion of price limit of a single item is based on the assumption that you can rarely buy/gain such an expensive item, if you start the campaign from 1st level. It's not only my opinion, but stated in the book.

I don't know Enfeebling off the top of my head - where is it from?
BoED
Merestil Haye
11-21-07, 10:00 AM Actually, the rule/suggestion of price limit of a single item is based on the assumption that you can rarely buy/gain such an expensive item, if you start the campaign from 1st level. It's not only my opinion, but stated in the book.Really? As far as I'm concerned, it's utter nonsense.

There are, if that is correct, items in the DMG that players cannot acquire because they are above the cost of a single item they can own, even at 20th level.

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to cite the page where it says that?

BoEDThanks.
risner
11-21-07, 01:55 PM Both passages are discussing the creation of new characters who are created at above first level. Neither are generally applicable to PCs who have been played up from lower levels.

What your DM wants to do is up to him, of course, but applying either of those two guidelines to a PC who has been played up is taking them out of context.

I gathered from the OP that he was building a new 4th level character. I re-read the OP and don't see a clear indication of that now. If he has a character he played up, then I agree. There is nothing to suggest a played up character has any limitation on buying an item as long as it is lower than the gold piece limit for the city and the player has the cash.
_Chaz_
11-21-07, 02:05 PM Sorry I've taken so long to reply. We're starting the campaign from Level 4 so the characters can actually have some kind of back story.

I was misinformed of the price of the +1 Enfeebling and was simply given the price for 2 +1 enhancements, rather than a +2.

Also we're playing the D8 18+ katana rules and I'm taking Impv. Crit to actually make Enfeebling worth while.
rironin
11-21-07, 02:48 PM Also we're playing the D8 18+ katana rules and I've taken Impv. Crit to actually make Enfeebling worth while.You've taken the Improved Critical feat? I don't think you can yet... a 4th level ninja has a +3 base attack bonus, and you need a +8 BAB in order to take the feat Improved Critical. Seems like your ninja may be biting off a little more than he can chew :)
_Chaz_
11-21-07, 03:31 PM Well yeah with the above knowledge of the squaring mistake I am changing it, last time I try to make a char without my books handy :s.
Bopple
11-21-07, 07:24 PM There are, if that is correct, items in the DMG that players cannot acquire because they are above the cost of a single item they can own, even at 20th level.
I don't think it's an issue. It's not an absolute/fixed rule but a general rule/a suggestion. It implies exceptions can be common.

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to cite the page where it says that?
All I got is...
This is a good way to prevent imbalances such as an 8th-level fighter with hardly a copper piece to his name who is armed with a nine lives stealer.
Hmm.. I can't find anymore.. maybe I assumed too much.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
_Chaz_ 11-20-07, 06:16 PM	Apparently I can't go over it for my level 4 Ninja to have a +1 Enfeebling Katana. Anyone know what book and page this rules in or if it's a houserule we've read and just stuck to?
tyrecian 11-20-07, 06:28 PM	I am pretty sure that rule is outlined in the Dungeon Master's Guide. I don't have my books with me, and the SRD online does not provide that information, but i remember it from PC creation in particularly nasty campaigns and it is correct, a PC gets the money, but cannot spend more than 25% on a single item.
Krusk 11-20-07, 08:08 PM	There no set rule that says it, but it is a common houseule. Its also not a good idea to spend most of your total starting money on one item, so you might want to consider abiding by it. Huge +X sword = no armor or stat boosters Huge armor= No sword A nice balance means decent sword and armor.
Legdiwena 11-20-07, 08:12 PM	I thought it was one item at 50% and no other item above 25%?
Scion of Coldshard 11-20-07, 08:16 PM	I usually just assume no more than half of the wealth on a single item, unless there is a really good reason for it.
Bopple 11-20-07, 08:23 PM	AFAIK, there are two mentions about it. The one says 50%. The other says 25%. IIRC, the former is more of a rule, while the latter is more of a suggestion. Edit) I found the latter. It's in DMG, pp199. I cannot find the former, but I am pretty sure it's out there somewhere.
risner 11-20-07, 08:33 PM	Apparently I can't go over it for my level 4 Ninja to have a +1 Enfeebling Katana. Anyone know what book and page this rules in or if it's a houserule we've read and just stuck to? DMG page 42 says no more than 50% on one item and no more than 25% on consumables (arrows, scrolls, wands, etc.) DMG page 199 says you could make a nice house rule of 25% max per item.
highbulp 11-20-07, 08:45 PM	I've heard the 50% rule before, but ignoring that won't break the game. Within 2 levels you can afford the same item, and I can't believe that there is some item that will break that game at level X but is perfectly reasonable at level X+2. That being said, spreading your money around can still be a good policy (though having a super awesome sword can be fun too) :)
Legdiwena 11-20-07, 08:47 PM	Are you starting at lvl 4 or have you been adventuring and just made it to there?
rironin 11-20-07, 08:48 PM	Creating PCs Above 1st Level: Magic Items as Gear "...you can exercise an item-by-item veto, but an easier method is to use maximum cost for a single item as a limit. For example, ... you can limit [the PC] to owning no single item worth more than one-quarter of [his total wealth]. This is a good way to prevent imbalances such as an 8th-level fighter with hardly a copper piece to his name who is armed with a nine lives stealer."It is a suggestion rather than a rule, but as others have said, it is a good suggestion, for both the players' and the DM's sakes. The Magic Item Compendium adds a slightly different note as to appropriate treasure:Placing Magic Items "Conversely, an item worth more than 50% of a character's expected wealth is almost certainly too big a chunk to swallow all at once..."This is meant more as a suggestion for DMs placing treasure, rather than PCs building a high level character from scratch. It goes on to say that most players would rather sell such items in order to buy multiple smaller items.
risner 11-20-07, 11:56 PM	It is a suggestion rather than a rule, but as others have said, it is a good suggestion, for both the players' and the DM's sakes. While the info on page 199 is a suggestion, the passage on page 42 is a "general rule" and not a suggestion.
ToastedAmphibian 11-21-07, 01:11 AM	While the info on page 199 is a suggestion, the passage on page 42 is a "general rule" and not a suggestion. "General Rule"="Sugestion"*1.0073
rironin 11-21-07, 01:30 AM	While the info on page 199 is a suggestion, the passage on page 42 is a "general rule" and not a suggestion.Bah, sorry about that risner, I both missed your post, and was also not aware of the passage on page 42. Haven't had occasion to read up on what the DMG says about Character Death, apparently.
Merestil Haye 11-21-07, 01:46 AM	Both passages are discussing the creation of new characters who are created at above first level. Neither are generally applicable to PCs who have been played up from lower levels. What your DM wants to do is up to him, of course, but applying either of those two guidelines to a PC who has been played up is taking them out of context.
Bopple 11-21-07, 02:31 AM	Well, OP mentioned of a +2 magic weapon. I thought it's far from likely that a 4th lvl character has money to buy one, if he started from 1st level. Thus, I(and it seems most here, too) assumed that he is starting a 4th lvl campaign. Now that I rechecked DMG, I found the standard wealth of 4th level character is only 5,400gp. scratch +2 katana is worth 8,335gp. You cannot buy one at 4th lvl, be your starting level 1st lvl or 4th lvl.
Merestil Haye 11-21-07, 07:53 AM	Well, OP mentioned of a +2 magic weapon. I thought it's far from likely that a 4th lvl character has money to buy one, if he started from 1st level. Thus, I(and it seems most here, too) assumed that he is starting a 4th lvl campaign.I made exactly the opposite assumption - that he'd been played up, and that his group had had a big treasure find. Now that I rechecked DMG, I found the standard wealth of 4th level character is only 5,400gp. scratch +2 katana is worth 8,335gp. You cannot buy one at 4th lvl, be your starting level 1st lvl or 4th lvl.I don't know Enfeebling off the top of my head - where is it from?
Bopple 11-21-07, 08:35 AM	I made exactly the opposite assumption - that he'd been played up, and that his group had had a big treasure find. Actually, the rule/suggestion of price limit of a single item is based on the assumption that you can rarely buy/gain such an expensive item, if you start the campaign from 1st level. It's not only my opinion, but stated in the book. I don't know Enfeebling off the top of my head - where is it from? BoED
Merestil Haye 11-21-07, 10:00 AM	Actually, the rule/suggestion of price limit of a single item is based on the assumption that you can rarely buy/gain such an expensive item, if you start the campaign from 1st level. It's not only my opinion, but stated in the book.Really? As far as I'm concerned, it's utter nonsense. There are, if that is correct, items in the DMG that players cannot acquire because they are above the cost of a single item they can own, even at 20th level. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to cite the page where it says that? BoEDThanks.
risner 11-21-07, 01:55 PM	Both passages are discussing the creation of new characters who are created at above first level. Neither are generally applicable to PCs who have been played up from lower levels. What your DM wants to do is up to him, of course, but applying either of those two guidelines to a PC who has been played up is taking them out of context. I gathered from the OP that he was building a new 4th level character. I re-read the OP and don't see a clear indication of that now. If he has a character he played up, then I agree. There is nothing to suggest a played up character has any limitation on buying an item as long as it is lower than the gold piece limit for the city and the player has the cash.
_Chaz_ 11-21-07, 02:05 PM	Sorry I've taken so long to reply. We're starting the campaign from Level 4 so the characters can actually have some kind of back story. I was misinformed of the price of the +1 Enfeebling and was simply given the price for 2 +1 enhancements, rather than a +2. Also we're playing the D8 18+ katana rules and I'm taking Impv. Crit to actually make Enfeebling worth while.
rironin 11-21-07, 02:48 PM	Also we're playing the D8 18+ katana rules and I've taken Impv. Crit to actually make Enfeebling worth while.You've taken the Improved Critical feat? I don't think you can yet... a 4th level ninja has a +3 base attack bonus, and you need a +8 BAB in order to take the feat Improved Critical. Seems like your ninja may be biting off a little more than he can chew :)
_Chaz_ 11-21-07, 03:31 PM	Well yeah with the above knowledge of the squaring mistake I am changing it, last time I try to make a char without my books handy :s.
Bopple 11-21-07, 07:24 PM	There are, if that is correct, items in the DMG that players cannot acquire because they are above the cost of a single item they can own, even at 20th level. I don't think it's an issue. It's not an absolute/fixed rule but a general rule/a suggestion. It implies exceptions can be common. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to cite the page where it says that? All I got is... This is a good way to prevent imbalances such as an 8th-level fighter with hardly a copper piece to his name who is armed with a nine lives stealer. Hmm.. I can't find anymore.. maybe I assumed too much.