Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Linder 01-09-07, 09:26 AM	Hi everyone, My wife, son and I started with the basic game and have begun playing, now moving past the basic game and are starting our first real adventure, The Scourge of the Howling Horde. However, during combat, we are not quite sure what actions are possible for both the players and the monsters. From our understanding: Sorcerer can: A. move and attack with weapon or spell B. move twice Rogue with 2 1H weapons can: A. move and attack B. move twice C. attack with each 1H weapon and make an optional 5' step Monsters can: A. move and attack with weapon or spell B. move twice Is this correct? Also, if a Sorcerer is attempting to use Shocking Grasp (a touch spell), does this allow him to not move and try using it twice? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Devlonir 01-09-07, 09:41 AM	Ok, let me try and not make it too hard for you but still give you some good info. By the way, I love the fact that you are playing with your family :) Hi everyone, From our understanding: Sorcerer can: A. move and attack with weapon or spell B. move twice Rogue with 2 1H weapons can: A. move and attack B. move twice C. attack with each 1H weapon and make an optional 5' step Monsters can: A. move and attack with weapon or spell B. move twice Is this correct? That is all correct, but some monsters also have more then one attack. For example a bite attack and two claw attacks. These monsters can also only use one of their attacks if they moved, just like the rogue who can just use one weapon. Also, if a Sorcerer is attempting to use Shocking Grasp (a touch spell), does this allow him to not move and try using it twice? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! No, a Sorcerer can only cast one spell each turn. But, if the Sorcerer had enough base attack bonus to be able to attack twice (from base attack bonus +6) he could use his second attack as well to deliver the touch attack when he misses the first touch attack, assuming he hasn't moved that turn and he succeeds a Concentration check to 'hold the charge'. I hope this helped you out a bit. Good luck playing!
Black Mantha 01-09-07, 09:46 AM	There are numerous exceptions, but yes, those are the basic options. But also, monsters or players with multiple attacks can use them in the same way as option C of the rogue. And about touch spells, the rules on that are rather complicated. You can: A - move and cast the spell + make the attack B - move and cast the spell C - cast the spell + make the attack and take a 5-foot step D - cast the spell and take a 5-foot step In the case of A and C, you lose the spell if you miss. In the case of B and D, you hold the spell and you can attack with it as many times as you wish untill you hit something, cast another spell, or touch something with that hand. Also, you can move before or after you action. You can't, though, cast the spell, move, and then make an attack in the same round.
Devlonir 01-09-07, 09:51 AM	What he is basically saying about the 5 foot step here, is that you can take a 5 foot step whenever you haven't moved yet during that turn. After you have taken the 5 foot step (avoiding some attacks of opportunity) you cannot move anymore during that turn.
Black Mantha 01-09-07, 09:52 AM	No, a Sorcerer can only cast one spell each turn. But, if the Sorcerer had enough base attack bonus to be able to attack twice (from base attack bonus +6) he could use his second attack as well to deliver the touch attack when he misses the first touch attack, assuming he hasn't moved that turn and he succeeds a Concentration check to 'hold the charge'. Sorry, that's not quite right. You can take a full attack (that's an attack with multiple weapons or multiple attacks with one weapon) with a spell, but not in the same round you cast it. Casting a spell is a standard action, and making a full attack is a full-round action. The fact that you can cast a touch spell and attack with it as a single standard action is a special rule. Also, if holding a charge doesn't require concentration, therefore you don't have to make Concentration checks.
Linder 01-09-07, 09:57 AM	But it is impossible to not move and instead cast and attack with two spells (touch or not) in the same round?
Black Mantha 01-09-07, 10:03 AM	But it is impossible to not move and instead cast and attack with two spells (touch or not) in the same round? Unless one is quickened, you're using 3.0 haste, or some other trick, you can't cast two spells in one round, because they're both standard actions. You can't even attack with one held charge and then cast another touch spell.
Linder 01-09-07, 10:24 AM	Okay, I think I am beginning to understand. I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help us :D And about touch spells, the rules on that are rather complicated. You can: A - move and cast the spell + make the attack B - move and cast the spell C - cast the spell + make the attack and take a 5-foot step D - cast the spell and take a 5-foot step In the case of A and C, you lose the spell if you miss. In the case of B and D, you hold the spell and you can attack with it as many times as you wish untill you hit something, cast another spell, or touch something with that hand. Also, you can move before or after you action. You can't, though, cast the spell, move, and then make an attack in the same round. Okay, so if when making a touch attack with a spell, if you move more than a 5' step, you will lose the spell charge during a miss but if you do not move, or only take a 5' step, you will retain the spell charge during a miss? Either way, a low level caster will have to wait until the next round to attempt the spell again. You can't even attack with one held charge and then cast another touch spell. However, a caster could attack with one held charge, attack with a melee weapon and then take a 5' step but NOT cast a non-touch spell, attack with melee and take a 5' step? Thank you!
Black Mantha 01-09-07, 10:35 AM	Okay, so if when making a touch attack with a spell, if you move more than a 5' step, you will lose the spell charge during a miss but if you do not move, or only take a 5' step, you will retain the spell charge during a miss? No. You can avoid losing the spell on a miss by not attacking the same round you cast the spell; then you start "holding the charge" (PHB page 176) and can attack in future rounds untill you hit. Either way, a low level caster will have to wait until the next round to attempt the spell again. Yes. However, a caster could attack with one held charge, attack with a melee weapon and then take a 5' step but NOT cast a non-touch spell,attack with melee and take a 5' step?(underline mine) The part before the underline is possible, yes. That's a full round action to attack with both "weapons" and a 5-foot step. As for the underlined part, that's a standard action and a 5-foot step. You can do that in one round. In fact, that's less than you can do in a single round. You can also do some move-equivalent action, such as drawing a weapon. You certainly can't do both in the same round. Firstly, a full-round action is just what it sounds like; not enough room left for a standard action. Secondly, you can't make two 5-foot steps in a single round.