3.0 Monks, DR and Stone Skin [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.0 Monks, DR and Stone Skin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JonahBlack
02-09-05, 10:54 AM The question below is with regards to 3.0 rules.

Does a Monk with stoneskin cast on him (DR 10/+5) overcome damage reduction as a +5 weapon while using his unarmed attacks?

There are two issues here I'm having trouble with:

First: Do the monk's unarmed attacks count as natural attacks?

Second: The 3.0 SRD says, in the section about DR:

For purposes of harming other creatures with damage reduction, a creature’s natural weapons count as weapons of the type that can ignore its own innate damage reduction. (emphasis mine)

I'm hung up on the innate part. Does this mean that the DR has to be a natural ability? Could a Troll with Stoneskin bypass DR with his claws? What about a Fiendish Troll (DR 5/+1 from the template)?
tarkin
02-09-05, 11:28 AM No. The Sage ruled in 3.0 that temporary DR derived from magic/psionic effects does not grant the ability to defeat DR unless the effect specifically states it.

And they changed the rules in 3.5 so that DR never grants the ability to defeat DR unless it specifically states it does.
JonahBlack
02-09-05, 11:55 AM Thanks tarkin! I thought that might be the case.

The actual situation, if anyone cares, is from RttToEE

I was thinking about the Bebilith that can be summoned in the Earth Bridge complex. I was wondering how far it could get (that is, how long it would take until the CRM residents killed it). I was thinking that Eerdidik could cast Stoneskin on Tac, the monk, who could then hurt it. It turns out it's moot, cuz the Bebelith would demolish him either way.

As far as 3.5, the DR section actually says that DR /magic creatures overcome DR /magic, and that creatures with alignment subtypes overcome damage reduction of their subtype (evil overcomes evil, lawful overcomes lawful).

Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability.

Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage.

Some monsters are vulnerable to certain materials, such as alchemical silver, adamantine, or cold-forged iron. Attacks from weapons that are not made of the correct material have their damage reduced, even if the weapon has an enhancement bonus.

Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Some monsters are vulnerable to chaotic-, evil-, good-, or lawful-aligned weapons. When a cleric casts align weapon, affected weapons might gain one or more of these properties, and certain magic weapons have these properties as well. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that match the subtype(s) of the creature.

When a damage reduction entry has a dash (–) after the slash, no weapon negates the damage reduction.

A few creatures are harmed by more than one kind of weapon. A weapon of either type overcomes this damage reduction.

A few other creatures require combinations of different types of attacks to overcome their damage reduction. A weapon must be both types to overcome this damage reduction. A weapon that is only one type is still subject to damage reduction.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JonahBlack 02-09-05, 10:54 AM	The question below is with regards to 3.0 rules. Does a Monk with stoneskin cast on him (DR 10/+5) overcome damage reduction as a +5 weapon while using his unarmed attacks? There are two issues here I'm having trouble with: First: Do the monk's unarmed attacks count as natural attacks? Second: The 3.0 SRD says, in the section about DR: For purposes of harming other creatures with damage reduction, a creature’s natural weapons count as weapons of the type that can ignore its own innate damage reduction. (emphasis mine) I'm hung up on the innate part. Does this mean that the DR has to be a natural ability? Could a Troll with Stoneskin bypass DR with his claws? What about a Fiendish Troll (DR 5/+1 from the template)?
tarkin 02-09-05, 11:28 AM	No. The Sage ruled in 3.0 that temporary DR derived from magic/psionic effects does not grant the ability to defeat DR unless the effect specifically states it. And they changed the rules in 3.5 so that DR never grants the ability to defeat DR unless it specifically states it does.
JonahBlack 02-09-05, 11:55 AM	Thanks tarkin! I thought that might be the case. The actual situation, if anyone cares, is from RttToEE I was thinking about the Bebilith that can be summoned in the Earth Bridge complex. I was wondering how far it could get (that is, how long it would take until the CRM residents killed it). I was thinking that Eerdidik could cast Stoneskin on Tac, the monk, who could then hurt it. It turns out it's moot, cuz the Bebelith would demolish him either way. As far as 3.5, the DR section actually says that DR /magic creatures overcome DR /magic, and that creatures with alignment subtypes overcome damage reduction of their subtype (evil overcomes evil, lawful overcomes lawful). Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below. The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability. Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage. Some monsters are vulnerable to certain materials, such as alchemical silver, adamantine, or cold-forged iron. Attacks from weapons that are not made of the correct material have their damage reduced, even if the weapon has an enhancement bonus. Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Some monsters are vulnerable to chaotic-, evil-, good-, or lawful-aligned weapons. When a cleric casts align weapon, affected weapons might gain one or more of these properties, and certain magic weapons have these properties as well. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that match the subtype(s) of the creature. When a damage reduction entry has a dash (–) after the slash, no weapon negates the damage reduction. A few creatures are harmed by more than one kind of weapon. A weapon of either type overcomes this damage reduction. A few other creatures require combinations of different types of attacks to overcome their damage reduction. A weapon must be both types to overcome this damage reduction. A weapon that is only one type is still subject to damage reduction.