Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 08-31-04, 10:10 AM	Can you throw Caltrops/Marbles from say 10-feet away into an enemy's square? If you apply Caltrops/Marbles in an enemy's square and you're right next to him does it provoke an AoO?
TMPikachu 08-31-04, 11:23 AM	Can you throw Caltrops/Marbles from say 10-feet away into an enemy's square? If you apply Caltrops/Marbles in an enemy's square and you're right next to him does it provoke an AoO? Seems reasonable you can throw them. Have a penalty 'to hit' though, as they are not a very aerodynamic shape and very light. Marbles also roll around too. have it that when you miss (and how badly you miss) the caltrops scatter off in a direction too close or far from you. I would sake it provokes an AoO. Think about the action. With an angry individual wanting to hurt you within sword range, you halt your attack, stick your hand in your pocket, and throw some stuff at his feet.
Bartleby_GoC 08-31-04, 11:58 AM	I'd rule yes on both counts. For throwing, I'd give a range increment of 5'. This is how far you can throw and get the mass of marbles/caltrops to land close enough together for them to have their normal effect. The items can be thrown farther, but then it's like tossing gravel. You get the benefit of distracting a spell or maybe revealing something that's invisible, but the items scatter too much to trip/cause damage. Instead of a normal attack, I'd make it a DC, say 15. In a normal attack, you only need a 5 (an individual 5x5 square would be medium, dex of 0, -5 mod). On a fail, the items scatter. Definitly enforce the improvised weapon mod of -4 for throwing. If someone chooses to take Exotic Weapon (caltrops/marbles), more power to 'em. Your average character won't be able to throw them more than 5', and even that is unreliable. However, a high level character would have no problem tossing them 10-15 feet away. Another option would be to make it work like a breath weapon. The throwing character needs to make the roll (DC15 again) or half effect. Max of a 15' cone ro a 20' line, using one... dose? set? unit?... of caltrops/marbles per space covered. Creatures (enemies and friends) in the area can opt to stand still (losing dex mod, but not flat footed) to avoid effect. They would still be able to use ranged attacks no penalty. Bartleby Bartleby
primemover003 08-31-04, 07:39 PM	Well of course you could throw them.... but they wouldn't necessarily fill the 5 foot square... Caltrops and marbles need to be placed to be truly effective. If you throw them the bag might not open.
Fixxxer 08-31-04, 09:29 PM	Well of course you could throw them.... but they wouldn't necessarily fill the 5 foot square... Caltrops and marbles need to be placed to be truly effective. If you throw them the bag might not open. Exactly. I'd say that if you throw them instead of placing them, you run the risk of them not being as effective as normal. Perhaps for each 5ft beyond the first that you throw them, you take a cumulative 25% chance that walking through the area won't injure your opponent?
psionichamster 08-31-04, 09:44 PM	caltrops, as a general rule, were designed to be spread in a rapid fashion, behind you, as you fled someone or something... thats why they're roughly pyramid shaped...no matter how much they tumble and such, they will land with one pointy side up... its like rolling a d4 and NOT seeing a point straight up...not gonna happen with even a relatively smooth surface... and caltrops were even more effective than d4's... as far as getting them to significantly cover the entirety of a 5' x 5' area, you'd need to get them about 1-2 every square foot. you dont need to get a lot into each person's foot to keep them from running after you, just one each...horses are even more susceptible, as the point getting in the frog of the hoof would likely lame them almost immediately.. so, 5x5...25 sq feet, figure 25-30 in a "dose" of caltrops...i always pictured them in little leather bags...rip open the bag/packaging and toss... now you've got a grenade like weapon, AFAIC, and use the grenade like weap rules a la alchemist's fire/oil/etc...each bag can cover 1 square, and an unfillable square (like one that is too high, slanted, underwater) could count as a "wasted" shot or not placed effectively enough to make a difference as far as marbles go...have you ever tried to fill an area with marbles? its a LOT harder than one would readily believe (the little blighters just roll everywhich way) so i would rule they could NOT be "placed" seeing as how they simply wont be there when the chasers come through...now, if you manage to roll those marbles underfoot of the chasers, making a touch attack, i would assume, with a range increment of 5 ft and a max of about 15-20, they would be susceptible to similar penalties as a grease spell or icy floors (DC 15 reflex save or dont move, fail by 5 or more and fall down, i believe) just my thoughts, the hamster
Fixxxer 08-31-04, 10:28 PM	as far as getting them to significantly cover the entirety of a 5' x 5' area, you'd need to get them about 1-2 every square foot. you dont need to get a lot into each person's foot to keep them from running after you, just one each...horses are even more susceptible, as the point getting in the frog of the hoof would likely lame them almost immediately.. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the PHB description of caltrops state that one bag covers a 5x5 area? I seem to recall reading that.
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-03-04, 08:38 PM	According to the rules, a square has an AC of 5. By default, you get a range increment of 5' for throwing something unless what you're throwing is designed for distance. If you throw them as a handful, they won't spread out more than 5'. since they all weight the same and all are going at the same velocity. I'm pretty sure that using caltrops provokes an AoO.