Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 09-06-04, 07:17 PM	I think I asked this before but don't remember the answer... Can you do the following with a BAB of +6/+1 in a full-round throwing medium-sized daggers w/Quickdraw and a Dexterity of 16 (+3) and a Strength of 14 (+2) as a human: +9 : Standard-action (1d4+2) +9/+4 : Full-round action (1d4+2/1d4+2) +7/+7/+2 : Full-round action w/Rapid Shot (1d4+2/1d4+2/1d4+2) +7/+7/+2 : Full-round action w/TWF (1d4+2/1d4+1/1d4+2) <---off-hand gets 1/2 strength +5/+5/+5/+0 : Full-round action w/Rapid Shot and TWF (1d4+2/1d4+2/1d4+1/1d4+2) <---off-hand gets 1/2 strength
ClementWillowbreaker 09-06-04, 07:19 PM	Yep, that's how it works.
Sensei Gith 09-06-04, 09:58 PM	If it's a sai or shuriken, you can also toss in flurry of blows. A monk 16/fighter 4 can get up to 10 attacks: 4 from BAB +16 2 from flurry 3 from GTWF 1 from rapid shot Not bad (although your attack bonus will be shot to Baator :)).
Vaelan 09-07-04, 12:07 AM	11 levels of Monk gives you two extra attacks at no penalty and Improved Rapid Shot gives you another for no penalty. Further, you could take a level of Exotic Weapon Master and throw 11 Sai/Shuriken per round all for a mere -1 to hit. Then you could take some levels of Master Thrower and throw 22 (+1 Wounding?) Sai/Shuriken per round as ranged touch attacks...
Sensei Gith 09-07-04, 01:36 PM	I think that once you have about 8 or so attacks, the investment required to get more is not worth it. That said, it's always nice to have options.
tarkin 09-07-04, 02:32 PM	When attacking creatures using non-AC defenses, it is a good idea to maximize your # of attacks, even at the cost of reducing your TAB. Examples where this technique would be wise: 1) Facing a mage with Mirror Images 2) Facing anything Blinking 3) Facing anything Displaced 4) Facing anything with concealment (Invisibility) 5) Facing anything Incorporeal with a magic weapon (Ghosts, etc.
testament 09-07-04, 11:57 PM	Just a quick question. I am sure the answer is right in front of me, but you know how the goes. Why does you off hand attack only get 1/2 of your str. bonus. I looked up two-weapon fighting, and it really doesn't say anything about it.
Legrac 09-08-04, 04:13 PM	Because the attack given with TWF has to be with your 'off-hand,' and str damage is 1/2 with any such attack. Attacks from a flurry have no such limitation, because, for those attacks you have no off hand. I know it's wierd that all of those attacks are not considered as such except for that one, but that's how it goes. Technically, all but the TWF attacks can be from one hand.
Reyzoul 10-16-04, 12:45 PM	11 levels of Monk gives you two extra attacks at no penalty and Improved Rapid Shot gives you another for no penalty. Further, you could take a level of Exotic Weapon Master and throw 11 Sai/Shuriken per round all for a mere -1 to hit. I don't understand how you get 11 attacks at 11th level monk with only improved rapid shot and and flurry of blows? I do not have the improved rapid shot feat in front of me but I'll take your word on the fact that it gives "one attack for no penalty". Full Attack = +8/+3 +Flurry of Blows (2 more attks) = +8/+8/+8/+3 +Imp Rapid Shot (1 more attk) = +8/+8/+8/+8/+3 That is only 5... Not even half of the proposed 11 attacks. What am I missing?
Frosty The Snowman 10-16-04, 09:35 PM	You can only use Rapid Shot with a Ranged Weapon. “Benefit: You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon.” “Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons that are not effective in melee.” Thus no dagger or sai. -Frosty
Egres 10-16-04, 09:53 PM	You can only use Rapid Shot with a Ranged Weapon. “Benefit: You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon.” “Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons that are not effective in melee.” Thus no dagger or sai. -Frosty ? From the SRD: Melee and Ranged Weapons: Melee weapons are used for making melee attacks, though some of them can be thrown as well. Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons that are not effective in melee. Thrown Weapons: Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets are thrown weapons
Frosty The Snowman 10-16-04, 09:58 PM	" . . . that are not effective in melee." Like a javelin or shuriken. - Frosty
Thorak 10-16-04, 10:17 PM	" . . . that are not effective in melee." Like a javelin or shuriken. - Frosty Depends on how you read the line. It could be "thrown weapons or projectile weapons" that are not effective in melee, or it could be "thrown weapons" or "projectile weapons that are not effective in melee". Your interpretation is the former, Egres' is the latter. There's no way to determine which is 'right' based on the structure of the sentence. Though it seems patently ridiculous just because I can stab a guy with a dagger, but not with a shuriken, this means the dagger isn't a ranged weapon, while the shuriken is. Thus I suspect Egres' interpretation is the correct one, since it makes more logical sense.
Frosty The Snowman 10-16-04, 10:27 PM	If the benefit of Rapid Shot was one extra attack with Thrown Weapons and Ranged Weapons one could argue that it would Logically say that. :D It only talks about Ranged Weapons. Your point is valid. Your argument of it's superior logic is opinion. -Frosty
Ph33r_the_Wheelchair 10-16-04, 11:25 PM	I personally would read it the way Egres is reading it. One, if you couldn't use thrown weapons that are also usable in melee, I would think it would make it clearer. Two, there doesn't seem to be any reason that you couldn't use Rapid Shot with a dagger. Why would that rule exist?
Nom 10-16-04, 11:45 PM	Perhaps they are just trying to say that a thrown dagger is not effective in melee, but worded it really badly? Wouldn't be the first time.
Celt 10-17-04, 01:07 AM	If the benefit of Rapid Shot was one extra attack with Thrown Weapons and Ranged Weapons one could argue that it would Logically say that. :D It only talks about Ranged Weapons. ummm... Thrown weapons are ranged weapons. Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons... And for the record, I've always interpreted that sentence in the same way as Egres and Thorak.
Frosty The Snowman 10-17-04, 02:41 AM	Okay, (Being Devil’s Advocate) The definition of a Ranged Weapon from the SRD: “Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons that are not effective in melee.” So why put in the part about not being effective in melee. Is there a projectile weapon that is effective in melee? -Frosty
Ph33r_the_Wheelchair 10-17-04, 02:59 AM	I think it's just supposed to clarify what a projectile weapon is. Big shock, a poorly-worded rule. The bottom line is, it wouldn't make any sense to not be able to apply Rapid Shot to daggers and such. There'd be no reason for such a rule.
Frosty The Snowman 10-17-04, 03:17 AM	Ph33r_the_Wheelchair, I stand corrected in the weight of overwhelming opinion. I shall concede to not belabor the point. :D -Frosty
Vaelan 10-17-04, 04:43 AM	I left a few things out of my previous post on accident(TWF and Haste).
Egres 10-17-04, 11:33 AM	Ph33r_the_Wheelchair, I stand corrected in the weight of overwhelming opinion. I shall concede to not belabor the point. -Frosty Vox populi, vox dei:D
Reyzoul 10-17-04, 01:59 PM	11 levels of Monk gives you two extra attacks at no penalty and Improved Rapid Shot gives you another for no penalty. Further, you could take a level of Exotic Weapon Master and throw 11 Sai/Shuriken per round all for a mere -1 to hit. I don't understand how you get 11 attacks at 11th level monk with only improved rapid shot and and flurry of blows? I do not have the improved rapid shot feat in front of me but I'll take your word on the fact that it gives "one attack for no penalty". Full Attack = +8/+3 +Flurry of Blows (2 more attks) = +8/+8/+8/+3 +Imp Rapid Shot (1 more attk) = +8/+8/+8/+8/+3 That is only 5... Not even half of the proposed 11 attacks. What am I missing? I left a few things out of my previous post on accident(TWF and Haste). So after adding TWF and Haste Full Attack = +8/+3 Two Weapon Fighting (same primary atacks at -2, 1 offhand at -2) = +6/+2, +6 +Flurry of Blows (2 more primary) = +6/+6/+6/+1, +6 +Imp Rapid Shot (1 more primary) = +6/+6/+6/+6/+1, +6 +Haste (1 more attack and all at +1) = +7/+7/+7/+7/+7/+2, +7 Point Blank Shot (if <30ft, +1 at all attacks) = +8/+8/+8/+8/+8/+3, +8 So now with with TWF and Haste, you get 7 attacks instead of 5. Where are you proposing the other 4 attacks come from to make your 11?
WolfSong 10-17-04, 03:55 PM	Ph33r_the_Wheelchair, I stand corrected in the weight of overwhelming opinion. I shall concede to not belabor the point. :D -Frosty For what it's worth Frosty, I agree with you.
Hypersmurf 10-17-04, 07:04 PM	Where are you proposing the other 4 attacks come from to make your 11? You can't, at 11th level. 11 attacks comes from a multiclassed Mnk12/Ftr8, for example, with +16 BAB. +16/+11/+6/+1 from BAB. One from Rapid Shot. One from Haste. Two from Flurry of Blows. Three from Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. Eleven. -Hyp.