Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 09-17-04, 10:06 PM	Ok lets say a creature, with Improved Grab, hit you for 10 points of damage, then they grapple you. Do they get to hit you again with unarmed damage because they automatically win the grapple as they move you into their square?
BW0222 09-17-04, 11:30 PM	Harmor, >Do they get to hit you again with unarmed damage No. Grappling is a condition. When a creature starts a grapple (normally or using improved grab) it and the target are grappling. They remain grappling until someone breaks free -- or both sides decide to stop grappling. >because they automatically win the grapple A creature with improved grap does not automatically win the grapple. It hit (using a normal attack), it may then make an opposed grapple check as a free action to start a grapple without provoking an AoO. >as they move you into their square? They don't. A creature with improved grap pulls you into it's square. It does move into your square. Unless the creature description says otherwise, a creature with improved grab can only use the ability on creatures smaller than itself. A tiger can not improved grab a horse, but it could a human or halfling. If a creature has multiple attacks (and improved grab) it can use additional attacks to grapple (for damage), pin, or (if it is using light weapons) attack for normal damage. Finally, creatures with improved grab deal their normal damage if they use an attack to deal damage. Example: a tiger pounces on a halfling. It misses with one claw, but hits with the second. It deals 1d8+6 damage and then starts a grapple using improved grab. Assuming it wins the opposed grapple check, it pulls the halfling into it's square. The tiger then gets three more attacks -- bite and two rake attacks. Once grappling the tiger could either: a) use it's attack normally (natural weapons are light) -- roll vs. AC and possibly to damage. b) use it's attack to pin an opponent. c) use it's attack as an opposed grapple check to deal damage -- normally this is 1d3+str, but in creatures with improved grab this is equal to the normal damage used in the attack -- i.e. bite does 2d6+3, rake does 1d8+3, etc. In all likelyhood, it would pin the poor halfling and then use the remaining attacks as grapple attempts to deal more damage. Thanks, Brett
Egres 09-18-04, 07:31 AM	Example: a tiger pounces on a halfling. It misses with one claw, but hits with the second. It deals 1d8+6 damage and then starts a grapple using improved grab. Assuming it wins the opposed grapple check, it pulls the halfling into it's square. The tiger then gets three more attacks -- bite and two rake attacks. From the SRD: A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn