3.5 Empire Plate Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 Empire Plate Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DoomSquirrel718
12-21-06, 02:26 AM I created these armors for a homebrew campaign where an immortal emperor slowly conquers the lands around him. He made the armor for his troops heavier and bulkier in order to protect more and to build the strength of his troops.

Heavy Armor
Empire Plate...+10 AC...+0 Max Dex... -8 check penalty...weight 75lb.
gp x(artifact?) only the empire, and its military subordinates, have access to this armor.
Special: anyone wearing this armor suffers a -2 to dexterity.
This armor is more like stone than metal, therefore it doesn't qualify for mithral or other properties.

Royal Guard Empire Plate... +12 AC...+1 Max Dex... -8 check penalty... weight 100lb.
gp x(artifact?) see above
Special: anyone wearing this armor suffers a -4 to dexterity
This armor is more like stone than metal, therefore it doesn't qualify for mithral or other properties.

suggestions for a "black market" gp value?
Keep or get rid of the "stone" properties?
general thoughts and suggestions?
calvinNhobbes
12-21-06, 11:30 AM So the Empire plate is heavier, with a dex penalty and a greater armor check penalty, but a +1 max dex? That really doesn't make much sense to me.
mightyix
12-21-06, 05:30 PM It's an artifact by your description which means it doesn't need to be balanced. So what if it doesn't have a dex penalty?

There's no reason for story purposes that you can't make these suits be anything you want them to be, without worrying about game balance, ESPECIALLY if you restrict or make difficult PC ownership of them... exactly like how Artifacts should be used in the first place.
DoomSquirrel718
12-21-06, 06:24 PM I made the royal plate like fullplate. example:
Halfplate : Fullplate as Empire plate : Royal Plate

Royal Guard Empire Plate is only used by the, 12 or so, elite guards that defend the most important areas and the emperor himself (not that he really needs it...). Because of this, players will have even less access.

I want it to be balanced because the players will be fighting the empire and they will come across the armor several times. They will have a choice of wearing it and becoming a permanent target or leaving it and avoiding the empire's notice for a sneakier, guerrila like approach.
Lecen_of_Mitran
12-21-06, 08:40 PM You know that "Royal" come from "Reign" and "Imperial" from "Empire", right?

Anyway, you should take a look at Races of Stone, there are better armors there then the ones that we can find in the PHB.
Maraxus
12-21-06, 08:53 PM I think there is no problem, with the heavier armor having a higher max-dex.

It might be bulkier, more weigth and more friction making it heavier to move in it. But if you know, how to move it, that you can benefit from the fact, that the joints are technically advanced and allow more movement.
calvinNhobbes
12-21-06, 09:27 PM I think there is no problem, with the heavier armor having a higher max-dex.
But it also has a higher dex penalty and armor check penalty. So it is both easier to move in and harder? Like I said, doesn't make much sense to me.
Voldar_Mecorthio
12-22-06, 01:09 PM Empire plate looks pretty similar to Mountain Plate from Races of Stone. I can provide a link to a description if you want.
Watchman
12-22-06, 01:19 PM Just for the record, I would imagine this stuff had to be tailor-made much the same way as full plate. The seriously limited-edition Guard version doubly so, with so much decoration and bling-bling to boot you could build a decent fortress at the cost of one suit if I know anything about how these things are done...
Novabomb
12-22-06, 01:49 PM My only complaint is the dex penalty. having a max dex bonus of greater than 0 is pointless with armor that gives a dex penalty. Honestly its just illogical.
Ryu Katsuragi
12-22-06, 02:17 PM I have to agree. I don't see the point in a Dexterity penalty (you'd need at least 16 Dexterity to get any benefit from the greater Dexterity limit on the other armour).

But the higher maximum Dexterity is perfectly fine - Look at the PHB. If I remember correctly, half-plate has 0 Max Dexterity, yet the higher armour check, 'more restrictive' full plate has a maximum of +1?
enygmatic_me
12-22-06, 03:44 PM Empire Plate 75 lb.
Greatsword 8 lb. (Primary Weapon)
Longsword 4 lb. (Back up Weapon)
Dagger (x2) 2 lb. (Off Hand or Ranged Options)
Traveler’s outfit 5 lbs (Represent Cloak and Tabard)
Belt Pouch (x 2) 1 lb.
100 GP 2 lb.
Total Weight 97 lb.

This is a minimum of 18 strength for a light load.

Royal Guard Empire Plate 100 lb.
Greatsword 8 lb. (Primary Weapon)
Longsword 4 lb. (Back up Weapon)
Dagger (x2) 2 lb. (Off Hand or Ranged Options)
Noble Outfit 10 lbs (Represent Higher Quality Cloak and Tabard)
Belt Pouch (x 2) 1 lb.
100 GP 2 lb.
Total Weight 127 lb

This is a minimum of 20 Strength for a light load.

I know that these figures don’t account for magical enhancements or carrying Platinum instead, both of which may lessen the weight, but they also don’t account for a lot of the other gear that they may be carrying (both magical and mundane) either. The more gear loaded on and these guys really start getting sluggish and can be eaten alive at ranges (which are common in the larger scale battles that they are most likely going to be part of).

Advancements in armor were more geared to refinement process and how to lighten the armor while retaining or increasing the defensive capabilities. Heavy Armor is asking to be an easy kill, especially against magic. One transmute stone to mud spell and these guys are going to sink in and never be seen again.

As to a black market, these would be better melted back down and used to make new items as no one with out a really high strength (magical or mundane) is going to want to wear these things.
calvinNhobbes
12-22-06, 04:01 PM If I remember correctly, half-plate has 0 Max Dexterity, yet the higher armour check, 'more restrictive' full plate has a maximum of +1?
You would be incorrect. Fullplate has a lower armor check penalty (-6) compared to half-plate (-7), as well as the higher max dexterity(+1 compared to 0), so it makes sense. I have no problem with heavier armors having more mobility, but I have a problem with an armor being both more and less restrictive at the same time (for example, if fullplate had a +1 max dex and -7 ACP and half plate had a 0 max dex and -6 ACP).
DoomSquirrel718
12-23-06, 07:04 PM -calvinNhobbes,
I lowered the check penalty to reflect the existing patterns better. Good catch.

-enygmatic_me,
In a way, wearing heavy armor = carrying a heavy load. I don't think anyone wearing heavy armor is worried about their light load.
Don't forget the emperor made his armor heavy intentionally in order to make his troops stronger by carrying it.

As for the "dex penalty AND max dex bonus" I think of it like this:
It has a Dex penalty because of the weight,
and a max dex bonus because of the fit.

I can see the contradiction you saw at first, if anyone still thinks the dex penalty and max dex bonus shouldn't go together I will be happy to read your arguements.
narukagami
12-23-06, 11:27 PM I created these armors for a homebrew campaign where an immortal emperor slowly conquers the lands around him. He made the armor for his troops heavier and bulkier in order to protect more and to build the strength of his troops. Might it look anything like this? (http://medusav.de.games-workshop.com/introduction/armies/images/marine.jpg):P
SkullsForKhorne
12-24-06, 12:41 AM I created these armors for a homebrew campaign where an immortal emperor slowly conquers the lands around him. He made the armor for his troops heavier and bulkier in order to protect more and to build the strength of his troops.

Heavy Armor
Empire Plate...+10 AC...+0 Max Dex... -8 check penalty...weight 75lb.
gp x(artifact?) only the empire, and its military subordinates, have access to this armor.
Special: anyone wearing this armor suffers a -2 to dexterity.
This armor is more like stone than metal, therefore it doesn't qualify for mithral or other properties.

Royal Guard Empire Plate... +12 AC...+1 Max Dex... -8 check penalty... weight 100lb.
gp x(artifact?) see above
Special: anyone wearing this armor suffers a -4 to dexterity
This armor is more like stone than metal, therefore it doesn't qualify for mithral or other properties.

suggestions for a "black market" gp value?
Keep or get rid of the "stone" properties?
general thoughts and suggestions?

Cast down the false emperor!!!!!!!!
DoomSquirrel718
12-26-06, 08:27 PM :bump:
I think that warhammer pic is TOO bulky :P
Seerow
12-26-06, 08:34 PM The first one is better than Full Plate, but worse than Mythril Full Plate, and it gives a -2 dex penalty. I'd say pricing it as full plate, maybe slightly higher (no more than 100 or so) would be fine.

The second one is better than Mythril Full Plate, giving +13 total bonus, compared to Mythril Full Plate's 11. Both require 16 dex to achieve this max bonus, but Mythril full Plate has other benefits, while this armor has other penalties. (-2 on initiative, ranged attacks, etc, and lowering your AC if you don't have at least 16 to max out the max dex on the armor), I'd mark it about 12,000 GP. (Reference: Mythril Full Plate costs 10,500)
Turaj
12-26-06, 09:05 PM Voldar....

if you could post a link, that would be great.

i skimmed that book a while ago, and cant remember the stats, but really liked the armor.

thanks.:D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DoomSquirrel718 12-21-06, 02:26 AM	I created these armors for a homebrew campaign where an immortal emperor slowly conquers the lands around him. He made the armor for his troops heavier and bulkier in order to protect more and to build the strength of his troops. Heavy Armor Empire Plate...+10 AC...+0 Max Dex... -8 check penalty...weight 75lb. gp x(artifact?) only the empire, and its military subordinates, have access to this armor. Special: anyone wearing this armor suffers a -2 to dexterity. This armor is more like stone than metal, therefore it doesn't qualify for mithral or other properties. Royal Guard Empire Plate... +12 AC...+1 Max Dex... -8 check penalty... weight 100lb. gp x(artifact?) see above Special: anyone wearing this armor suffers a -4 to dexterity This armor is more like stone than metal, therefore it doesn't qualify for mithral or other properties. suggestions for a "black market" gp value? Keep or get rid of the "stone" properties? general thoughts and suggestions?
calvinNhobbes 12-21-06, 11:30 AM	So the Empire plate is heavier, with a dex penalty and a greater armor check penalty, but a +1 max dex? That really doesn't make much sense to me.
mightyix 12-21-06, 05:30 PM	It's an artifact by your description which means it doesn't need to be balanced. So what if it doesn't have a dex penalty? There's no reason for story purposes that you can't make these suits be anything you want them to be, without worrying about game balance, ESPECIALLY if you restrict or make difficult PC ownership of them... exactly like how Artifacts should be used in the first place.
DoomSquirrel718 12-21-06, 06:24 PM	I made the royal plate like fullplate. example: Halfplate : Fullplate as Empire plate : Royal Plate Royal Guard Empire Plate is only used by the, 12 or so, elite guards that defend the most important areas and the emperor himself (not that he really needs it...). Because of this, players will have even less access. I want it to be balanced because the players will be fighting the empire and they will come across the armor several times. They will have a choice of wearing it and becoming a permanent target or leaving it and avoiding the empire's notice for a sneakier, guerrila like approach.
Lecen_of_Mitran 12-21-06, 08:40 PM	You know that "Royal" come from "Reign" and "Imperial" from "Empire", right? Anyway, you should take a look at Races of Stone, there are better armors there then the ones that we can find in the PHB.
Maraxus 12-21-06, 08:53 PM	I think there is no problem, with the heavier armor having a higher max-dex. It might be bulkier, more weigth and more friction making it heavier to move in it. But if you know, how to move it, that you can benefit from the fact, that the joints are technically advanced and allow more movement.
calvinNhobbes 12-21-06, 09:27 PM	I think there is no problem, with the heavier armor having a higher max-dex. But it also has a higher dex penalty and armor check penalty. So it is both easier to move in and harder? Like I said, doesn't make much sense to me.
Voldar_Mecorthio 12-22-06, 01:09 PM	Empire plate looks pretty similar to Mountain Plate from Races of Stone. I can provide a link to a description if you want.
Watchman 12-22-06, 01:19 PM	Just for the record, I would imagine this stuff had to be tailor-made much the same way as full plate. The seriously limited-edition Guard version doubly so, with so much decoration and bling-bling to boot you could build a decent fortress at the cost of one suit if I know anything about how these things are done...
Novabomb 12-22-06, 01:49 PM	My only complaint is the dex penalty. having a max dex bonus of greater than 0 is pointless with armor that gives a dex penalty. Honestly its just illogical.
Ryu Katsuragi 12-22-06, 02:17 PM	I have to agree. I don't see the point in a Dexterity penalty (you'd need at least 16 Dexterity to get any benefit from the greater Dexterity limit on the other armour). But the higher maximum Dexterity is perfectly fine - Look at the PHB. If I remember correctly, half-plate has 0 Max Dexterity, yet the higher armour check, 'more restrictive' full plate has a maximum of +1?
enygmatic_me 12-22-06, 03:44 PM	Empire Plate 75 lb. Greatsword 8 lb. (Primary Weapon) Longsword 4 lb. (Back up Weapon) Dagger (x2) 2 lb. (Off Hand or Ranged Options) Traveler’s outfit 5 lbs (Represent Cloak and Tabard) Belt Pouch (x 2) 1 lb. 100 GP 2 lb. Total Weight 97 lb. This is a minimum of 18 strength for a light load. Royal Guard Empire Plate 100 lb. Greatsword 8 lb. (Primary Weapon) Longsword 4 lb. (Back up Weapon) Dagger (x2) 2 lb. (Off Hand or Ranged Options) Noble Outfit 10 lbs (Represent Higher Quality Cloak and Tabard) Belt Pouch (x 2) 1 lb. 100 GP 2 lb. Total Weight 127 lb This is a minimum of 20 Strength for a light load. I know that these figures don’t account for magical enhancements or carrying Platinum instead, both of which may lessen the weight, but they also don’t account for a lot of the other gear that they may be carrying (both magical and mundane) either. The more gear loaded on and these guys really start getting sluggish and can be eaten alive at ranges (which are common in the larger scale battles that they are most likely going to be part of). Advancements in armor were more geared to refinement process and how to lighten the armor while retaining or increasing the defensive capabilities. Heavy Armor is asking to be an easy kill, especially against magic. One transmute stone to mud spell and these guys are going to sink in and never be seen again. As to a black market, these would be better melted back down and used to make new items as no one with out a really high strength (magical or mundane) is going to want to wear these things.
calvinNhobbes 12-22-06, 04:01 PM	If I remember correctly, half-plate has 0 Max Dexterity, yet the higher armour check, 'more restrictive' full plate has a maximum of +1? You would be incorrect. Fullplate has a lower armor check penalty (-6) compared to half-plate (-7), as well as the higher max dexterity(+1 compared to 0), so it makes sense. I have no problem with heavier armors having more mobility, but I have a problem with an armor being both more and less restrictive at the same time (for example, if fullplate had a +1 max dex and -7 ACP and half plate had a 0 max dex and -6 ACP).
DoomSquirrel718 12-23-06, 07:04 PM	-calvinNhobbes, I lowered the check penalty to reflect the existing patterns better. Good catch. -enygmatic_me, In a way, wearing heavy armor = carrying a heavy load. I don't think anyone wearing heavy armor is worried about their light load. Don't forget the emperor made his armor heavy intentionally in order to make his troops stronger by carrying it. As for the "dex penalty AND max dex bonus" I think of it like this: It has a Dex penalty because of the weight, and a max dex bonus because of the fit. I can see the contradiction you saw at first, if anyone still thinks the dex penalty and max dex bonus shouldn't go together I will be happy to read your arguements.
narukagami 12-23-06, 11:27 PM	I created these armors for a homebrew campaign where an immortal emperor slowly conquers the lands around him. He made the armor for his troops heavier and bulkier in order to protect more and to build the strength of his troops. Might it look anything like this? (http://medusav.de.games-workshop.com/introduction/armies/images/marine.jpg):P
SkullsForKhorne 12-24-06, 12:41 AM	I created these armors for a homebrew campaign where an immortal emperor slowly conquers the lands around him. He made the armor for his troops heavier and bulkier in order to protect more and to build the strength of his troops. Heavy Armor Empire Plate...+10 AC...+0 Max Dex... -8 check penalty...weight 75lb. gp x(artifact?) only the empire, and its military subordinates, have access to this armor. Special: anyone wearing this armor suffers a -2 to dexterity. This armor is more like stone than metal, therefore it doesn't qualify for mithral or other properties. Royal Guard Empire Plate... +12 AC...+1 Max Dex... -8 check penalty... weight 100lb. gp x(artifact?) see above Special: anyone wearing this armor suffers a -4 to dexterity This armor is more like stone than metal, therefore it doesn't qualify for mithral or other properties. suggestions for a "black market" gp value? Keep or get rid of the "stone" properties? general thoughts and suggestions? Cast down the false emperor!!!!!!!!
DoomSquirrel718 12-26-06, 08:27 PM	:bump: I think that warhammer pic is TOO bulky :P
Seerow 12-26-06, 08:34 PM	The first one is better than Full Plate, but worse than Mythril Full Plate, and it gives a -2 dex penalty. I'd say pricing it as full plate, maybe slightly higher (no more than 100 or so) would be fine. The second one is better than Mythril Full Plate, giving +13 total bonus, compared to Mythril Full Plate's 11. Both require 16 dex to achieve this max bonus, but Mythril full Plate has other benefits, while this armor has other penalties. (-2 on initiative, ranged attacks, etc, and lowering your AC if you don't have at least 16 to max out the max dex on the armor), I'd mark it about 12,000 GP. (Reference: Mythril Full Plate costs 10,500)
Turaj 12-26-06, 09:05 PM	Voldar.... if you could post a link, that would be great. i skimmed that book a while ago, and cant remember the stats, but really liked the armor. thanks.:D