3.5 Small Mithril Dagger (costs 252gp and is considered masterwork?) [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 Small Mithril Dagger (costs 252gp and is considered masterwork?) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Harmor
08-31-04, 02:47 AM I just wanted to make sure that you can make a masterwork weapon for less than 300gp.

Mithril weapons are +500gp/lb. A small dagger weighs 0.5lbs and thus costs:

250gp + 2gp (base cost of a dagger) = 252gp

Other weapons like Darts and Sais can be made masterwork for less than 300gp as well.

A small Dart costs 125.5gp (125gp + 0.5gp) and is considered masterwork (+1 to hit).

Am I correct here with this little loophole?
Jebb X
08-31-04, 05:38 AM Not from how I understand it - essentially to create a mithral dagger, you must make it masterwork, thus, it would be 252gp + 300gp for masterwork, much the same way that a silver dagger (which is masterwork) costs 322gp.
kjenks
08-31-04, 08:16 AM Not from how I understand it - essentially to create a mithral dagger, you must make it masterwork, thus, it would be 252gp + 300gp for masterwork, much the same way that a silver dagger (which is masterwork) costs 322gp.

Nope. You don't need to spend an extra 300 gp to make a mithral weapon into a masterwork weapon. Check the DMG.
Jebb X
08-31-04, 08:37 AM Glurk!

Quite right, the SRD 3.5 does indeed state that the costs include the masterwork items. Thus, I would say that a small mithral dagger costs:

1lbs x 0.5 for small x 0.5 for mithral = 0.25lbs, which in turn is:

500gp (per pound for mithrall) x 0.25 = 125gp +2 gp for the dagger

127gp for a dagger that deals 1d3 points of damage and has a +1 to hit.

Do I figure that out right?
tate
08-31-04, 09:59 AM Wow, thats pretty cheap. I'm not sure about the extra 1/2 weight for being mithral though so just double check that, you might be right. But in the DMG it mentions nothing about making weapons out of mithral, and for all other materials it specifically states how much it costs. So if I were DMing I would say that you really cant do it (unless you paid extra). This post came up earlier and I ranted about keeping game balance, so instead of saying all that again. Just be careful not to get pushy about saving the 50 gp or whatever it is, because its not worth it to make the game less fun by offending your DM (and for any DMs out there, be nice when you say no to a player for this, as it sounds fairly doable).
Edymnion
08-31-04, 10:28 AM Um, no, it says ARMOR and SHIELDS created from Mithril are already masterwork. It doesn't say anything one way or the other about mithril weapons, because it wasn't intended to be made into weapons.

By the rules as written, making a weapon out of mithril does NOTHING to it. No auto-masterwork, no having it count as a lighter weapon catagory, no being finessable, no nothing. All it does, by the rules, is make it weigh less, thats it.
kjenks
08-31-04, 10:42 AM Um, no, it says ARMOR and SHIELDS created from Mithril are already masterwork. It doesn't say anything one way or the other about mithril weapons, because it wasn't intended to be made into weapons.

By the rules as written, making a weapon out of mithril does NOTHING to it. No auto-masterwork, no having it count as a lighter weapon catagory, no being finessable, no nothing. All it does, by the rules, is make it weigh less, thats it.

Perhaps the DMG is different from the SRD here, but this is what the SRD says:
An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon’s size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a scythe cannot be.)

Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.

So if you can buy things made of mithral, for some small weapons, mithral may be cheaper than masterwork.

In addition to the +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls from being masterwork, making items out of mithral instead of steel makes them harder. Mithral has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 15. Steel has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10.
Harmor
08-31-04, 10:42 AM Um, no, it says ARMOR and SHIELDS created from Mithril are already masterwork. It doesn't say anything one way or the other about mithril weapons, because it wasn't intended to be made into weapons.

By the rules as written, making a weapon out of mithril does NOTHING to it. No auto-masterwork, no having it count as a lighter weapon catagory, no being finessable, no nothing. All it does, by the rules, is make it weigh less, thats it.Here's the Mithral (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/spmat/Mithral.html) description from the SRD:Mithral: Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than iron but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonus is increased by 2, and armor check penalties are lessened by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon’s size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a scythe cannot be.)

Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.

Mithral has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 15.Type of Mithral Item Item Cost Modifier
Light armor +1,000 gp
Medium armor +4,000 gp
Heavy armor +9,000 gp
Shield +1,000 gp
Other items +500 gp/lb. <---- DaggerNotice the second underlined a bolded section. You can make mithral weapons. :)
tarkin
08-31-04, 11:14 AM Except that is wrong.

Items made from Mithral do NOT get the +1 Enhancement bonus to attack or Damage

They are 'considered masterwork' for purposes of DC to manufacture them and because they can be enchanted.

But if you make somethign out of Mithral you ONLY get the listed bonuses (weight, etc.), you do NOT get any enhancement bonus.

These are WoTC's official rules, as played at Gen Con and Living City.

Your DM may House Rule otherwise. He may also House Rule that weapons made from wood do + 25d6 of damage.
Sensei Gith
08-31-04, 12:57 PM Umm...

Weapons... fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items
It's certainly a reasonable house rule to ignore that, although I'd lean toward charging the +300 masterwork cost instead, but just because Gen Con does it does not make it an official rule. And even if it were, it directly contradicts and is therefore overridden by the DMG. Unless it's official errata, which must be clearly marked as such.

Not that I'd actually allow a 150 gp MW dagger, but the RAW are quite clear.
Bartleby_GoC
08-31-04, 01:12 PM As far as pricing for sale or purchase, I think the +300gp for MW weapons is kind of arbitrary. Really, if someone makes superior items and choses to sell at normal prices, they are going to be able to sell a lot of items.

As far as the costs and time for making it, I think the +300 is good accross the board. Bigger weapons require more of the better material while smaller weapons are harder to work with at the skill needed for the MW traits. So, when a PC makes the item, just use the +300gp as a general mod for the mechanics.

As it applies to mithryl or other material, I'd say you have to get the material AND then apply the +300gp, again, only for the creation mechanics. Mythril is harder to work with, so a masterwork effort is required to work it at all. Also, I'd base the cost on base weight, not modified weight.

So, the base price of that dagger might run 252gp, but most crafters will want more for the effort they had to put in, likely bumping the minimum price to +300gp.

Bartleby
Edymnion
08-31-04, 01:15 PM Perhaps the DMG is different from the SRD here, but this is what the SRD says:Whoops, 3.5 snuck a fast one by me. Sorry, nevermind.
Harmor
08-31-04, 01:26 PM Don't weaponcrafters only pay 1/3rd the materials to craft an item?To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps.

1. Find the item’s price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp).

2. Find the DC from the table below.

3. Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials...So a crafter of a small mithril dagger would buy 84gp (252gp/3) of materials.

If the crafter succeeded then they would have only paid 84gp for a 252gp weapon (that's 200% profit).
Thelon Fairblade
08-31-04, 01:30 PM Straight from the SRD:

MASTERWORK WEAPONS
A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls.

Mithril makes it masterwork, masterwork makes it +1 on attacks. Boom.

On the other hand, a mithril dagger costs based on the original weight (.5 lb), but ends up weighing .25 lb. 252, not 127.
tate
08-31-04, 01:50 PM Regardless of the rules glitches here and there, when I DM I would not allow the dagger to cost less than 300gp. Its a balance issue. Just because there is a loophole doesnt mean that you have to jump through it, this is a game and not a tax return.
Thorak
08-31-04, 02:04 PM Except that is wrong.

Items made from Mithral do NOT get the +1 Enhancement bonus to attack or Damage

They are 'considered masterwork' for purposes of DC to manufacture them and because they can be enchanted.

But if you make somethign out of Mithral you ONLY get the listed bonuses (weight, etc.), you do NOT get any enhancement bonus.

These are WoTC's official rules, as played at Gen Con and Living City.

Your DM may House Rule otherwise. He may also House Rule that weapons made from wood do + 25d6 of damage.

You tried to make this point on the other thread too. According to the RAW, you do get the bonus. The ruling you're talking about is a Sage houserule. The Sage is not an official Errata, and as such if he disagrees with the RAW, as he does here, he's wrong. Skip can say whatever he wants, but a weapon made of mithral is considered to be masterwork. Which means it's treated in all ways as if it were.

There's no basis, for example, to assume that it's the +1 enhancement bonus that they don't get, instead of the ability to be enchanted. I'd have just as much basis for saying they get the +1 to hit but can't be enchanted as Skip does saying the opposite.

Unless you have an official FAQ or Errata to back up the Sage?
masterofmayhem
08-31-04, 02:08 PM :rofl: Mithral is so messed up. A mithral dagger costs less than a masterwork steel dagger, but a mithral greatsword costs (a lot) more than an adamantine greatsword? Is there some special thing that mithral does that I am not aware of? Anyone packing a greatsword probably won't be worrying about weight, and it would be stupid to buy a mithral greatsword instead of an adamantine one . . .

I think we need set prices for mithral weapons.
kjenks
08-31-04, 02:42 PM :rofl: Mithral is so messed up. A mithral dagger costs less than a masterwork steel dagger, but a mithral greatsword costs (a lot) more than an adamantine greatsword? Is there some special thing that mithral does that I am not aware of? Anyone packing a greatsword probably won't be worrying about weight, and it would be stupid to buy a mithral greatsword instead of an adamantine one . . .

I think we need set prices for mithral weapons.

It's not so stupid to by mithral instead of steel.

First, your weapon has hardness 15 instead of hardness 10. This could make a big difference when you roll a 1 on a Reflex save vs. an area damage spell and your weapon takes some kinds of energy damage. Or if you drop your weapon and it gets hit with an area spell. Or when someone tries to sunder your weapon.

Second, a mithral weapon is lighter than a steel weapon. This helps low-strength fighters who carry a lot of weapons. My 12th level guy has Str 14 and he wants to maintain a light load (for Tumble, fast movement, etc.), but he could do some serious damage with Spirited Charge, Power Attack and a mithral greatsword. (But he'd prefer a mithral lance for that damage multiplier during mounted charges.)

Some campaigns limit access to special materials like mithral or adamantine. Most campaigns limit the amount of gold a character has. Mithral is cheaper and (depending on the campaign) more abundant than adamantine. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that a mid-level character might have a mithral weapon that he replaces with an adamantine weapon at a later date.

The situations in which a mithral weapon costs less than a masterwork steel weapon are very limited, mostly light weapons for small characters, and even then, the savings is only about 50 gp, max.

So I don't see a big abuse potential here. Just think of it as shopping wisely.
masterofmayhem
08-31-04, 03:22 PM It's not so stupid to by mithral instead of steel.

I agree. My point was that it would not be the best of ideas to buy mithral instead of adamantine for most greatsword fighters. Especially considering most of them have good strength.

First, your weapon has hardness 15 instead of hardness 10. This could make a big difference when you roll a 1 on a Reflex save vs. an area damage spell and your weapon takes some kinds of energy damage. Or if you drop your weapon and it gets hit with an area spell. Or when someone tries to sunder your weapon.

And adamantine has hardness 20.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that a mid-level character might have a mithral weapon that he replaces with an adamantine weapon at a later date.

Once again, though, he's paying a lot more. First he had to pay for the mithral, and now he has to sell the item back at half price and buy a new one.
Commander of Chaos
08-31-04, 04:09 PM i must agree with Master of Mayhem. Adamantine is the best for a greatsword. It has hardness 20, can cut through doors etc., and it doesn;t get eaten by the gay oozes.
Bantam
08-31-04, 05:17 PM Tarkin, as I'd requested from the earlier thread that got erased, can you state which Dragon issue or FAQ page the Sage made this ruling on?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 08-31-04, 02:47 AM	I just wanted to make sure that you can make a masterwork weapon for less than 300gp. Mithril weapons are +500gp/lb. A small dagger weighs 0.5lbs and thus costs: 250gp + 2gp (base cost of a dagger) = 252gp Other weapons like Darts and Sais can be made masterwork for less than 300gp as well. A small Dart costs 125.5gp (125gp + 0.5gp) and is considered masterwork (+1 to hit). Am I correct here with this little loophole?
Jebb X 08-31-04, 05:38 AM	Not from how I understand it - essentially to create a mithral dagger, you must make it masterwork, thus, it would be 252gp + 300gp for masterwork, much the same way that a silver dagger (which is masterwork) costs 322gp.
kjenks 08-31-04, 08:16 AM	Not from how I understand it - essentially to create a mithral dagger, you must make it masterwork, thus, it would be 252gp + 300gp for masterwork, much the same way that a silver dagger (which is masterwork) costs 322gp. Nope. You don't need to spend an extra 300 gp to make a mithral weapon into a masterwork weapon. Check the DMG.
Jebb X 08-31-04, 08:37 AM	Glurk! Quite right, the SRD 3.5 does indeed state that the costs include the masterwork items. Thus, I would say that a small mithral dagger costs: 1lbs x 0.5 for small x 0.5 for mithral = 0.25lbs, which in turn is: 500gp (per pound for mithrall) x 0.25 = 125gp +2 gp for the dagger 127gp for a dagger that deals 1d3 points of damage and has a +1 to hit. Do I figure that out right?
tate 08-31-04, 09:59 AM	Wow, thats pretty cheap. I'm not sure about the extra 1/2 weight for being mithral though so just double check that, you might be right. But in the DMG it mentions nothing about making weapons out of mithral, and for all other materials it specifically states how much it costs. So if I were DMing I would say that you really cant do it (unless you paid extra). This post came up earlier and I ranted about keeping game balance, so instead of saying all that again. Just be careful not to get pushy about saving the 50 gp or whatever it is, because its not worth it to make the game less fun by offending your DM (and for any DMs out there, be nice when you say no to a player for this, as it sounds fairly doable).
Edymnion 08-31-04, 10:28 AM	Um, no, it says ARMOR and SHIELDS created from Mithril are already masterwork. It doesn't say anything one way or the other about mithril weapons, because it wasn't intended to be made into weapons. By the rules as written, making a weapon out of mithril does NOTHING to it. No auto-masterwork, no having it count as a lighter weapon catagory, no being finessable, no nothing. All it does, by the rules, is make it weigh less, thats it.
kjenks 08-31-04, 10:42 AM	Um, no, it says ARMOR and SHIELDS created from Mithril are already masterwork. It doesn't say anything one way or the other about mithril weapons, because it wasn't intended to be made into weapons. By the rules as written, making a weapon out of mithril does NOTHING to it. No auto-masterwork, no having it count as a lighter weapon catagory, no being finessable, no nothing. All it does, by the rules, is make it weigh less, thats it. Perhaps the DMG is different from the SRD here, but this is what the SRD says: An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon’s size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a scythe cannot be.) Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below. So if you can buy things made of mithral, for some small weapons, mithral may be cheaper than masterwork. In addition to the +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls from being masterwork, making items out of mithral instead of steel makes them harder. Mithral has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 15. Steel has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10.
Harmor 08-31-04, 10:42 AM	Um, no, it says ARMOR and SHIELDS created from Mithril are already masterwork. It doesn't say anything one way or the other about mithril weapons, because it wasn't intended to be made into weapons. By the rules as written, making a weapon out of mithril does NOTHING to it. No auto-masterwork, no having it count as a lighter weapon catagory, no being finessable, no nothing. All it does, by the rules, is make it weigh less, thats it.Here's the Mithral (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/spmat/Mithral.html) description from the SRD:Mithral: Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than iron but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonus is increased by 2, and armor check penalties are lessened by 3 (to a minimum of 0). An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon’s size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a scythe cannot be.) Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below. Mithral has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 15.Type of Mithral Item Item Cost Modifier Light armor +1,000 gp Medium armor +4,000 gp Heavy armor +9,000 gp Shield +1,000 gp Other items +500 gp/lb. <---- DaggerNotice the second underlined a bolded section. You can make mithral weapons. :)
tarkin 08-31-04, 11:14 AM	Except that is wrong. Items made from Mithral do NOT get the +1 Enhancement bonus to attack or Damage They are 'considered masterwork' for purposes of DC to manufacture them and because they can be enchanted. But if you make somethign out of Mithral you ONLY get the listed bonuses (weight, etc.), you do NOT get any enhancement bonus. These are WoTC's official rules, as played at Gen Con and Living City. Your DM may House Rule otherwise. He may also House Rule that weapons made from wood do + 25d6 of damage.
Sensei Gith 08-31-04, 12:57 PM	Umm... Weapons... fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items It's certainly a reasonable house rule to ignore that, although I'd lean toward charging the +300 masterwork cost instead, but just because Gen Con does it does not make it an official rule. And even if it were, it directly contradicts and is therefore overridden by the DMG. Unless it's official errata, which must be clearly marked as such. Not that I'd actually allow a 150 gp MW dagger, but the RAW are quite clear.
Bartleby_GoC 08-31-04, 01:12 PM	As far as pricing for sale or purchase, I think the +300gp for MW weapons is kind of arbitrary. Really, if someone makes superior items and choses to sell at normal prices, they are going to be able to sell a lot of items. As far as the costs and time for making it, I think the +300 is good accross the board. Bigger weapons require more of the better material while smaller weapons are harder to work with at the skill needed for the MW traits. So, when a PC makes the item, just use the +300gp as a general mod for the mechanics. As it applies to mithryl or other material, I'd say you have to get the material AND then apply the +300gp, again, only for the creation mechanics. Mythril is harder to work with, so a masterwork effort is required to work it at all. Also, I'd base the cost on base weight, not modified weight. So, the base price of that dagger might run 252gp, but most crafters will want more for the effort they had to put in, likely bumping the minimum price to +300gp. Bartleby
Edymnion 08-31-04, 01:15 PM	Perhaps the DMG is different from the SRD here, but this is what the SRD says:Whoops, 3.5 snuck a fast one by me. Sorry, nevermind.
Harmor 08-31-04, 01:26 PM	Don't weaponcrafters only pay 1/3rd the materials to craft an item?To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps. 1. Find the item’s price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp). 2. Find the DC from the table below. 3. Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials...So a crafter of a small mithril dagger would buy 84gp (252gp/3) of materials. If the crafter succeeded then they would have only paid 84gp for a 252gp weapon (that's 200% profit).
Thelon Fairblade 08-31-04, 01:30 PM	Straight from the SRD: MASTERWORK WEAPONS A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls. Mithril makes it masterwork, masterwork makes it +1 on attacks. Boom. On the other hand, a mithril dagger costs based on the original weight (.5 lb), but ends up weighing .25 lb. 252, not 127.
tate 08-31-04, 01:50 PM	Regardless of the rules glitches here and there, when I DM I would not allow the dagger to cost less than 300gp. Its a balance issue. Just because there is a loophole doesnt mean that you have to jump through it, this is a game and not a tax return.
Thorak 08-31-04, 02:04 PM	Except that is wrong. Items made from Mithral do NOT get the +1 Enhancement bonus to attack or Damage They are 'considered masterwork' for purposes of DC to manufacture them and because they can be enchanted. But if you make somethign out of Mithral you ONLY get the listed bonuses (weight, etc.), you do NOT get any enhancement bonus. These are WoTC's official rules, as played at Gen Con and Living City. Your DM may House Rule otherwise. He may also House Rule that weapons made from wood do + 25d6 of damage. You tried to make this point on the other thread too. According to the RAW, you do get the bonus. The ruling you're talking about is a Sage houserule. The Sage is not an official Errata, and as such if he disagrees with the RAW, as he does here, he's wrong. Skip can say whatever he wants, but a weapon made of mithral is considered to be masterwork. Which means it's treated in all ways as if it were. There's no basis, for example, to assume that it's the +1 enhancement bonus that they don't get, instead of the ability to be enchanted. I'd have just as much basis for saying they get the +1 to hit but can't be enchanted as Skip does saying the opposite. Unless you have an official FAQ or Errata to back up the Sage?
masterofmayhem 08-31-04, 02:08 PM	:rofl: Mithral is so messed up. A mithral dagger costs less than a masterwork steel dagger, but a mithral greatsword costs (a lot) more than an adamantine greatsword? Is there some special thing that mithral does that I am not aware of? Anyone packing a greatsword probably won't be worrying about weight, and it would be stupid to buy a mithral greatsword instead of an adamantine one . . . I think we need set prices for mithral weapons.
kjenks 08-31-04, 02:42 PM	:rofl: Mithral is so messed up. A mithral dagger costs less than a masterwork steel dagger, but a mithral greatsword costs (a lot) more than an adamantine greatsword? Is there some special thing that mithral does that I am not aware of? Anyone packing a greatsword probably won't be worrying about weight, and it would be stupid to buy a mithral greatsword instead of an adamantine one . . . I think we need set prices for mithral weapons. It's not so stupid to by mithral instead of steel. First, your weapon has hardness 15 instead of hardness 10. This could make a big difference when you roll a 1 on a Reflex save vs. an area damage spell and your weapon takes some kinds of energy damage. Or if you drop your weapon and it gets hit with an area spell. Or when someone tries to sunder your weapon. Second, a mithral weapon is lighter than a steel weapon. This helps low-strength fighters who carry a lot of weapons. My 12th level guy has Str 14 and he wants to maintain a light load (for Tumble, fast movement, etc.), but he could do some serious damage with Spirited Charge, Power Attack and a mithral greatsword. (But he'd prefer a mithral lance for that damage multiplier during mounted charges.) Some campaigns limit access to special materials like mithral or adamantine. Most campaigns limit the amount of gold a character has. Mithral is cheaper and (depending on the campaign) more abundant than adamantine. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that a mid-level character might have a mithral weapon that he replaces with an adamantine weapon at a later date. The situations in which a mithral weapon costs less than a masterwork steel weapon are very limited, mostly light weapons for small characters, and even then, the savings is only about 50 gp, max. So I don't see a big abuse potential here. Just think of it as shopping wisely.
masterofmayhem 08-31-04, 03:22 PM	It's not so stupid to by mithral instead of steel. I agree. My point was that it would not be the best of ideas to buy mithral instead of adamantine for most greatsword fighters. Especially considering most of them have good strength. First, your weapon has hardness 15 instead of hardness 10. This could make a big difference when you roll a 1 on a Reflex save vs. an area damage spell and your weapon takes some kinds of energy damage. Or if you drop your weapon and it gets hit with an area spell. Or when someone tries to sunder your weapon. And adamantine has hardness 20. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that a mid-level character might have a mithral weapon that he replaces with an adamantine weapon at a later date. Once again, though, he's paying a lot more. First he had to pay for the mithral, and now he has to sell the item back at half price and buy a new one.
Commander of Chaos 08-31-04, 04:09 PM	i must agree with Master of Mayhem. Adamantine is the best for a greatsword. It has hardness 20, can cut through doors etc., and it doesn;t get eaten by the gay oozes.
Bantam 08-31-04, 05:17 PM	Tarkin, as I'd requested from the earlier thread that got erased, can you state which Dragon issue or FAQ page the Sage made this ruling on?