4.0 Think Tank: Armor Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

4.0 Think Tank: Armor Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zepherdragon
08-14-05, 11:24 PM One thing I didn't like about 3.x or any D&D that I remember is why they quantified certian values they way they did. I get a lot of "that's just how it is" or "that's how it's always been" from a lot of people. Below I go into as much detail as I can on why I have decided on the new function of AC and armor. Armor class, which may have to go under a different name (Oh no! the heritic is changing the name of things that have been that way for ever!) is the ability to not get hit. Armor, is the stuff you wear that prevents damge when you are hit. The reason AC is that way it is in 3.x is because of their abstract view of hit points. HP is the ability to avoid death. Fighters get more hps because they are able to take a potentialy lethal attack, ie attack to the skull, and have it only nick the top of their head. It's when they run out of hps that they fail to avoid death and eat a blade. They group the different AC types into one number to keep things simple. I propose a more time tested way of dealing with hps that I'll go into more detail about in a thread probably named 4.0 Think Tank: Ability Scores Etc... For now, hps are directly propotinal to how much punishment you can take. High hps, the more axes to the head you can take, low hps, the fewer.

The Base AC: this is the 10 you get right off the bat. I believe the creators decided that it's the average (rounded down) of an opposed roll to an attack roll. It's your Pc's attempt at not getting hit as your opponent hits you. This will remain unchanged.

The Deflection AC: this protection is really the first line of defence for those that posess it. Deflection vears attacks away from their target with an invisible, visible, whatever, force around the posesser.

The Dexterity AC: this is the extra skill via dexterity that allows defenders to duck, weave, and otherwise dodge attacks. This is the second line of defence that really is just part of the base AC.

Shield/Weapon AC: This one has given me the most trouble. Can someone use a shield properly and still use his weapon to deflect attacks too? If they can (I think so!) how much does doing so hinder both defences? I'd like feedback on this because I'm thinking of breaking up the two types of defences based on functionality. You can both use a shield to absorb an attack and also use it to deflect it, which can also be done with a weapon too. I'm thinking of making this type of AC versatile. Pc/Npc chooses the functionality of their weapon/shield to deflect attacks, or absorbe damage in the form of damage reduction.

The Armor: If an attack touches your armor, you've been hit, now it is time to see how well the attack landed. Any armor you wear acts to absorb the force of an attack. This is quantified in the form of damage reduction. When your're struck, the armor slows down the attack and diverts damage to the armor instead of your soft flesh. If the damage delt is less than the damage reduction of the armor, the armor absorbs all the damage and none is received by the defender. This also protects the defender from poisions, but not from most touch attacks. Armor also has a tendancy to have more protection over vital organs, ie heart and brain. But I don't think it should be taken into account specifically but in it's overall protective ability.

The Natural Armor: This functions the same as armor except most poisions effect the defender as do all touch attacks. Armor and natural armor stack in damage reduction.

Any piercing ability a NPC/PC has helps overcome the damage reduction of both armor and natural armor. That is traded off for a 1 for 1 basis.

Another idea I haven't been able to solidify is one of vulnerable spots in armor. Thats where an attack can land and offer no protection in the form of damage reduction, although most armors are only weak in non vital areas of the body and the damage is usually non leathal.
Gilgiga of the Hunt
08-14-05, 11:34 PM Looks good if a little complicated for my taste.
As for the shield question yes, very much so. In truth I've found it's best if you acctualy knock their weapon out of the way with the shield and attack while they're open.
But I'm no shieldmaster.

As for the finding weak points, just have criticals bypass the armor DC.
Probably have a spell that lets you do that too.
Hairfoot
08-14-05, 11:35 PM The values are simple for...simplicity.

Give something like Rolemaster a whirl, where all of those tiny factors are taken into account when calculating hits, misses, and damage.

The result is a nightmare world of tables and cross-referencing.

Complexity is great in a roleplaying game, but a line has to be drawn so that it stays a game, and not an exercise in accountancy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zepherdragon 08-14-05, 11:24 PM	One thing I didn't like about 3.x or any D&D that I remember is why they quantified certian values they way they did. I get a lot of "that's just how it is" or "that's how it's always been" from a lot of people. Below I go into as much detail as I can on why I have decided on the new function of AC and armor. Armor class, which may have to go under a different name (Oh no! the heritic is changing the name of things that have been that way for ever!) is the ability to not get hit. Armor, is the stuff you wear that prevents damge when you are hit. The reason AC is that way it is in 3.x is because of their abstract view of hit points. HP is the ability to avoid death. Fighters get more hps because they are able to take a potentialy lethal attack, ie attack to the skull, and have it only nick the top of their head. It's when they run out of hps that they fail to avoid death and eat a blade. They group the different AC types into one number to keep things simple. I propose a more time tested way of dealing with hps that I'll go into more detail about in a thread probably named 4.0 Think Tank: Ability Scores Etc... For now, hps are directly propotinal to how much punishment you can take. High hps, the more axes to the head you can take, low hps, the fewer. The Base AC: this is the 10 you get right off the bat. I believe the creators decided that it's the average (rounded down) of an opposed roll to an attack roll. It's your Pc's attempt at not getting hit as your opponent hits you. This will remain unchanged. The Deflection AC: this protection is really the first line of defence for those that posess it. Deflection vears attacks away from their target with an invisible, visible, whatever, force around the posesser. The Dexterity AC: this is the extra skill via dexterity that allows defenders to duck, weave, and otherwise dodge attacks. This is the second line of defence that really is just part of the base AC. Shield/Weapon AC: This one has given me the most trouble. Can someone use a shield properly and still use his weapon to deflect attacks too? If they can (I think so!) how much does doing so hinder both defences? I'd like feedback on this because I'm thinking of breaking up the two types of defences based on functionality. You can both use a shield to absorb an attack and also use it to deflect it, which can also be done with a weapon too. I'm thinking of making this type of AC versatile. Pc/Npc chooses the functionality of their weapon/shield to deflect attacks, or absorbe damage in the form of damage reduction. The Armor: If an attack touches your armor, you've been hit, now it is time to see how well the attack landed. Any armor you wear acts to absorb the force of an attack. This is quantified in the form of damage reduction. When your're struck, the armor slows down the attack and diverts damage to the armor instead of your soft flesh. If the damage delt is less than the damage reduction of the armor, the armor absorbs all the damage and none is received by the defender. This also protects the defender from poisions, but not from most touch attacks. Armor also has a tendancy to have more protection over vital organs, ie heart and brain. But I don't think it should be taken into account specifically but in it's overall protective ability. The Natural Armor: This functions the same as armor except most poisions effect the defender as do all touch attacks. Armor and natural armor stack in damage reduction. Any piercing ability a NPC/PC has helps overcome the damage reduction of both armor and natural armor. That is traded off for a 1 for 1 basis. Another idea I haven't been able to solidify is one of vulnerable spots in armor. Thats where an attack can land and offer no protection in the form of damage reduction, although most armors are only weak in non vital areas of the body and the damage is usually non leathal.
Gilgiga of the Hunt 08-14-05, 11:34 PM	Looks good if a little complicated for my taste. As for the shield question yes, very much so. In truth I've found it's best if you acctualy knock their weapon out of the way with the shield and attack while they're open. But I'm no shieldmaster. As for the finding weak points, just have criticals bypass the armor DC. Probably have a spell that lets you do that too.
Hairfoot 08-14-05, 11:35 PM	The values are simple for...simplicity. Give something like Rolemaster a whirl, where all of those tiny factors are taken into account when calculating hits, misses, and damage. The result is a nightmare world of tables and cross-referencing. Complexity is great in a roleplaying game, but a line has to be drawn so that it stays a game, and not an exercise in accountancy.