5 foot step while entangled? [Archive] - Wizards Community

5 foot step while entangled? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thorden_Lyon
02-15-08, 02:33 PM Hi,

I know you can't take a 5 foot step on difficult terrain (x2 or more cost), it is the same when you are entangled (your speed is halved)?

Thanks for the answer!
Slimgauge
02-15-08, 03:07 PM Here's what the SRD says about Entangle:

Entangled
The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell.

Here's what the SRD says about Five Foot Stepping

Take 5-Foot Step
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance. You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round. You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature. You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.

Looks to me, by RAW, that you can take a five foot step when entangled, unless your unentangled speed was 10' or less. Having that net tossed over your head hasn't made the ground you're standing on difficult terrain, but it has slowed you down.
mvincent
02-15-08, 03:12 PM Looks to me, by RAW, that you can take a five foot step when entangledThe rules you quoted say:
"You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness."
... I don't believe it was the writer's intent to preclude other things that might hinder your movement. But even if so, one would view an entangled area as difficult terrain regardless of whether you are entangled or not.
toucanbuzz
02-15-08, 03:14 PM "You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm)(SRD).

However, as per the SRD, you can use a Full Round Action to move 5' when your movement is hampered (but not when movement is prohibited). This is useful if there are enough conditions hampering movement that you could not afford to move even 1 square.
Slimgauge
02-15-08, 03:24 PM ... I don't believe it was the writer's intent to preclude other things that might hinder your movement. But even if so, one would view an entangled area as difficult terrain regardless of whether you are entangled or not.

Ok, so now we're into RAI instead of RAW. I'd wish the original author would have added some language to that effect, but that's beyond the power of a wish spell and the DM'd twist it :rolleyes: . How would you write it so movement reductions caused by heavy loads or heavy armor don't trigger it ? Hmmm ...

Anyway, if you're entangled because of a web spell or entangle spell, those are certainly things that could be considered to alter the terrain. I can see a DM ruling those as preventing a five foot step for that reason. But if you're entangled because the drunken barbarian tried to pants you or you got your suspenders sundered, you're not in difficult terrain.

Follow up thought question: Can you attempt a five foot step in the area of a Grease spell ? (and succeed only if you make the DC 10 Balance check ?)
mvincent
02-15-08, 03:41 PM Ok, so now we're into RAI instead of RAW.Yes, for other situations (like being in fog or obscuring mist), but not for this one. An area under the effects of entangle hinder movement for anyone (regardless of whether they are entangled). I don't see a RAW basis for this not being difficult terrain.

Regardless, this Rules of the Game article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040608a) (if desired), might help resolve the RAI issue:
"Hampered Movement: When conditions don't let you move as quickly as your speed would normally allow, your movement is hampered. When a creature enters a square where movement is hampered, it pays at least 10 feet of movement instead of the usual 5 feet. When moving diagonally into a square where movement is hampered, a creature pays at least 15 feet of movement.

Uneven surfaces, slippery surfaces, obstacles that leave you room to pass but require you to climb over them or detour around them, thick vegetation -- all these can hamper your movement.

A creature cannot charge, run, or take a 5-foot step when its movement is hampered."

Can you five foot step in the area of a Grease spell ?Yes, but only if you take the "Accelerated Movement" option listed in the balance skill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/balance.htm).
Howie23
02-15-08, 04:44 PM "You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm)(SRD).

However, as per the SRD, you can use a Full Round Action to move 5' when your movement is hampered (but not when movement is prohibited). This is useful if there are enough conditions hampering movement that you could not afford to move even 1 square.

There is a distinction between taking a full round action to move 5' (which provokes) vs. taking a free action 5-foot step (which doesn't provoke).
Slimgauge
02-15-08, 05:01 PM That article helps, yes, thanks. I note that the SRD section on hampered movement says You can’t run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement. where the article states A creature cannot charge, run, or take a 5-foot step when its movement is hampered. I wonder if that addition/clarification made it into the Rules Compendium ?

It seems to me that something external to the character that hampers his movement (bad terrain, bad visibility, entangle spell, web spell) prevents the five foot step, but effects not external to the character (wearing heavy armor, being heavily encumbered, being under the effects of a slow spell, having baggy drawers) do not, unless they've reduced the characters adjusted speed to five feet or less. Or is there something else I still haven't considered ?
mvincent
02-15-08, 05:16 PM It seems to me that something external to the character that hampers his movement (bad terrain, bad visibility, entangle spell, web spell) prevents the five foot step, but effects not external to the character (wearing heavy armor, being heavily encumbered, being under the effects of a slow spell, having baggy drawers) do not, unless they've reduced the characters adjusted speed to five feet or less. That seems about right. The latter actually reduce your speed stat (and thus apply to things like standing long-jumps and high-jumps).
tyrecian
02-15-08, 07:27 PM wait, you are saying that you can 5' step in a slow spell?

wow, i never ruled it that way, made slow really pwoerful in my campaigns (for both sides granted, but prolly moreso for PCs cause their ACs tend to be higher, as well as DCs)....

I just always assumed (:smirk:) that the reduction in movement was the same as difficult terrain, but now, wow, you can take a single move, or a standard, so you can 5' step, making slow a little less effective than I always thought.

Its still pretty awesome, but the 5' step is crucial. The rest of those things mentioned in that quote (last post b4 this one, hopefully) are pretty much fluff, but this is pretty in combat... is this the only spell that this affects this way (aside from grease)... wow interesting, will have to watch that in the future... only rough terrain, not necessarily decreased movement...

I suppose i always equated half move with hamperred move, is why i thought that, and hamperred move with the same mechanic as rough terrain... logic leaps make me dumber.
mvincent
02-15-08, 07:52 PM wait, you are saying that you can 5' step in a slow spell?Yeah, that one surprised me also. While Slow does indeed halve your movement, from its description it appears to function more like things that reduce your speed stat (rather than things that simply make movement more costly). Prior to researching it just now, I would've previously ruled the other way (and so wouldn't fault anyone that does... itsa DM call).

I suppose i always equated half move with hamperred moveYup. Ditto. Freedom of movement handles them the same way also (but then, I'm pretty sure that FoM would alleviate a theoretical spell effect that caused you to become encumbered too)
Thorden_Lyon
02-16-08, 05:58 PM Thanks a lot, everyone

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thorden_Lyon 02-15-08, 02:33 PM	Hi, I know you can't take a 5 foot step on difficult terrain (x2 or more cost), it is the same when you are entangled (your speed is halved)? Thanks for the answer!
Slimgauge 02-15-08, 03:07 PM	Here's what the SRD says about Entangle: Entangled The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell. Here's what the SRD says about Five Foot Stepping Take 5-Foot Step You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance. You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round. You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature. You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed. Looks to me, by RAW, that you can take a five foot step when entangled, unless your unentangled speed was 10' or less. Having that net tossed over your head hasn't made the ground you're standing on difficult terrain, but it has slowed you down.
mvincent 02-15-08, 03:12 PM	Looks to me, by RAW, that you can take a five foot step when entangledThe rules you quoted say: "You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness." ... I don't believe it was the writer's intent to preclude other things that might hinder your movement. But even if so, one would view an entangled area as difficult terrain regardless of whether you are entangled or not.
toucanbuzz 02-15-08, 03:14 PM	"You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm)(SRD). However, as per the SRD, you can use a Full Round Action to move 5' when your movement is hampered (but not when movement is prohibited). This is useful if there are enough conditions hampering movement that you could not afford to move even 1 square.
Slimgauge 02-15-08, 03:24 PM	... I don't believe it was the writer's intent to preclude other things that might hinder your movement. But even if so, one would view an entangled area as difficult terrain regardless of whether you are entangled or not. Ok, so now we're into RAI instead of RAW. I'd wish the original author would have added some language to that effect, but that's beyond the power of a wish spell and the DM'd twist it :rolleyes: . How would you write it so movement reductions caused by heavy loads or heavy armor don't trigger it ? Hmmm ... Anyway, if you're entangled because of a web spell or entangle spell, those are certainly things that could be considered to alter the terrain. I can see a DM ruling those as preventing a five foot step for that reason. But if you're entangled because the drunken barbarian tried to pants you or you got your suspenders sundered, you're not in difficult terrain. Follow up thought question: Can you attempt a five foot step in the area of a Grease spell ? (and succeed only if you make the DC 10 Balance check ?)
mvincent 02-15-08, 03:41 PM	Ok, so now we're into RAI instead of RAW.Yes, for other situations (like being in fog or obscuring mist), but not for this one. An area under the effects of entangle hinder movement for anyone (regardless of whether they are entangled). I don't see a RAW basis for this not being difficult terrain. Regardless, this Rules of the Game article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040608a) (if desired), might help resolve the RAI issue: "Hampered Movement: When conditions don't let you move as quickly as your speed would normally allow, your movement is hampered. When a creature enters a square where movement is hampered, it pays at least 10 feet of movement instead of the usual 5 feet. When moving diagonally into a square where movement is hampered, a creature pays at least 15 feet of movement. Uneven surfaces, slippery surfaces, obstacles that leave you room to pass but require you to climb over them or detour around them, thick vegetation -- all these can hamper your movement. A creature cannot charge, run, or take a 5-foot step when its movement is hampered." Can you five foot step in the area of a Grease spell ?Yes, but only if you take the "Accelerated Movement" option listed in the balance skill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/balance.htm).
Howie23 02-15-08, 04:44 PM	"You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm)(SRD). However, as per the SRD, you can use a Full Round Action to move 5' when your movement is hampered (but not when movement is prohibited). This is useful if there are enough conditions hampering movement that you could not afford to move even 1 square. There is a distinction between taking a full round action to move 5' (which provokes) vs. taking a free action 5-foot step (which doesn't provoke).
Slimgauge 02-15-08, 05:01 PM	That article helps, yes, thanks. I note that the SRD section on hampered movement says You can’t run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement. where the article states A creature cannot charge, run, or take a 5-foot step when its movement is hampered. I wonder if that addition/clarification made it into the Rules Compendium ? It seems to me that something external to the character that hampers his movement (bad terrain, bad visibility, entangle spell, web spell) prevents the five foot step, but effects not external to the character (wearing heavy armor, being heavily encumbered, being under the effects of a slow spell, having baggy drawers) do not, unless they've reduced the characters adjusted speed to five feet or less. Or is there something else I still haven't considered ?
mvincent 02-15-08, 05:16 PM	It seems to me that something external to the character that hampers his movement (bad terrain, bad visibility, entangle spell, web spell) prevents the five foot step, but effects not external to the character (wearing heavy armor, being heavily encumbered, being under the effects of a slow spell, having baggy drawers) do not, unless they've reduced the characters adjusted speed to five feet or less. That seems about right. The latter actually reduce your speed stat (and thus apply to things like standing long-jumps and high-jumps).
tyrecian 02-15-08, 07:27 PM	wait, you are saying that you can 5' step in a slow spell? wow, i never ruled it that way, made slow really pwoerful in my campaigns (for both sides granted, but prolly moreso for PCs cause their ACs tend to be higher, as well as DCs).... I just always assumed (:smirk:) that the reduction in movement was the same as difficult terrain, but now, wow, you can take a single move, or a standard, so you can 5' step, making slow a little less effective than I always thought. Its still pretty awesome, but the 5' step is crucial. The rest of those things mentioned in that quote (last post b4 this one, hopefully) are pretty much fluff, but this is pretty in combat... is this the only spell that this affects this way (aside from grease)... wow interesting, will have to watch that in the future... only rough terrain, not necessarily decreased movement... I suppose i always equated half move with hamperred move, is why i thought that, and hamperred move with the same mechanic as rough terrain... logic leaps make me dumber.
mvincent 02-15-08, 07:52 PM	wait, you are saying that you can 5' step in a slow spell?Yeah, that one surprised me also. While Slow does indeed halve your movement, from its description it appears to function more like things that reduce your speed stat (rather than things that simply make movement more costly). Prior to researching it just now, I would've previously ruled the other way (and so wouldn't fault anyone that does... itsa DM call). I suppose i always equated half move with hamperred moveYup. Ditto. Freedom of movement handles them the same way also (but then, I'm pretty sure that FoM would alleviate a theoretical spell effect that caused you to become encumbered too)
Thorden_Lyon 02-16-08, 05:58 PM	Thanks a lot, everyone