Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yaeri 02-24-06, 09:21 AM	Has anyone ever used any houserules to remove the tactic: "I take a five ft step out of the melee combat and then do a full attack with my bow or cast a full round spell, without being threatened." I can imagine a spellcaster or archer jumping backwards and firing one arrow while unthreatened. But the only way I can translate the full attack/full round spell tactic to real life is with the opponent really standing still for 6 seconds and then moving in when it's his/her turn. *Do you think the designers have allowed this tactic on purpose? *Would it be unbalanced if this possibility was prevented (for example with the option for enemies to move 5 ft with one opponent in one turn) *Have you ever done anything to prevent the tactic?
Free1983 02-24-06, 09:29 AM	nope, I guess it would penalize archers and spellcasters too much. You're screwing with the entire system of threatened squares. Don't. You can prevent it (partially) by doing one (or more) of the following. Take the battle to a cliff so you can downsize the mobility of the players. Make a battle with lots of individuals, the spellcasters and archers won't be safe anywhere and won't profit from the "5-foot step, full-round action" tactic. I guess there's a lot more out there, but I think you should allow this manoevre. cheers (waar woon jij ergens en wie ben je. Misschien kennen we elkaar wel zonder 't te weten = fun. Ik ben Free)
Gold Katana 02-24-06, 09:30 AM	This can be offset by preparing an action to move with the retreating character. Even without that, however, it is countered by the "warrior" (or whatever) simply taking a 5' step on his turn and unloading a full attack.
tarkin 02-24-06, 11:31 AM	Most of the time, the 5ft step backwards is ineffective. it generally does not take a lot of work to corner the person. In the cases where there is an open field, there is always the grapple move. People that like to shoot arrows or cast spells generally do not like being grappled.
Tyler Do'Urden 02-24-06, 11:34 AM	No. Let them have it.
Salty_Boy 02-24-06, 12:41 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, but I also seem to recall a feat somewhere that enabled a creature to select an opponent and automatically move with them up to 5' even when it was not their turn. Somewhere in the Complete Adventurer/Warrior, perhaps? If I'm not imagining the feat then I'm 99% sure it's also a Fighter Feat and thus readily accesible to melee types.
Tony Vargas 02-24-06, 12:43 PM	Has anyone ever used any houserules to remove the tactic: "I take a five ft step out of the melee combat and then do a full attack with my bow or cast a full round spell, without being threatened." No. I think it's a good thing, frustrating as it can be. In 1E, casting in melee was virtually impossible, 3E concentration and 5' steps make playing a caster more enjoyable, in that you can actually do something other than whimper in fear when someone's standing next to you. There are a few ways to improve reach - spiked chains, Enlarge Person spells, etc - and any number of ways to limit the 5' step option (flanking at 'right angles,' backing an enemy against a wall, readying to 5' step after them, etc) - so, while it gives casters an archers a way of extricating briefly from melee it doesn't obviate the danger completely.
malignor 02-24-06, 12:51 PM	If the attacker has a 5' step available at the end of their round (ie they just full-attacked or whatever), just ahve them hold their 5' step free action to match the caster's/archer's. It screws with their initiative, but it's a valid tactic.
Salty_Boy 02-24-06, 01:02 PM	If the attacker has a 5' step available at the end of their round (ie they just full-attacked or whatever), just ahve them hold their 5' step free action to match the caster's/archer's. It screws with their initiative, but it's a valid tactic. A valid tactic maybe, but not something allowable in the rules. In order for the attacker to follow the archer/spellcaster as you're suggesting they would need a readied action, an act that requires a standard action to use and thus disallows any sort of attacking, let alone a full-attack. A five-foot-step, even as a free action, can only be used on your turn unless special conditions apply (i.e. readied action). The same is true of all free actions (with the possible exception of speaking when spoken to).
malignor 02-24-06, 01:28 PM	Actually, I just read up on it, and you're right in some way. - It takes a standard action to ready an action of any kind. (you're right) - Any readied action includes a free 5' step, unless you already moved that round. ... this makes the "readied attack action" exceptionally useful, because it includes a free 5' step (unless you already moved that round). So if an archer, ready a sunder to waste the bow, or trip to make the archer useless that round. If a wizard, ready an attack to disrupt spell.
Yaeri 02-24-06, 02:13 PM	I know there are many possible ways of preventing it, by readied actions, reach weapons, perhaps a feat, etc... But that wasn't my intent. I more saw a flaw in the way things work and wondered if it should be different. It's also not because I thought it was unbalanced (I have no idea whether it is or isn't) or is giving me problems. The mechanic itself seems so wrong if I try to visualise what actually happens. Everyone agrees that it should remain the way it is because of balance, so that's the way it's going to stay in my games. :D Thanks for the replies. :)