+5 sheilds,+4 full-plate. "enhancement bonus questions" [Archive] - Wizards Community

+5 sheilds,+4 full-plate. "enhancement bonus questions" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
guru7892
10-20-05, 12:21 AM this is a quicky.
i got +4 full plate and a +5 sheild, from enhancement bonuses, do i get a +9 total (armor+sheild) or a +5 (they stack so i take sheild)?

what if bracers of armor +6 are added into the mix (lets say i hit epic randomly)?
TheChocoboMafia
10-20-05, 12:23 AM Can't say for sure about the enhancement bonuses from armor and shield stacking or not, but the Bracers of Armor count as an armor bonus and would not stack with any armor. It's either one or the other.
Kullak-Kobold Sorcerer
10-20-05, 12:28 AM this is a quicky.
i got +4 full plate and a +5 sheild, from enhancement bonuses, do i get a +9 total (armor+sheild) or a +5 (they stack so i take sheild)?

what if bracers of armor +6 are added into the mix (lets say i hit epic randomly)?

Enhancement bonuses stack from Armor and Shields. This is the only time two bonus of the same type "stack".

Your total would be +9.

bracers of armor DO NOT stack with any armor as they are both armor bonuses.
Inigo Carmine
10-20-05, 12:32 AM The enhancement bonuses do not stack, but they don't need to.

+4 Fullplate doesn't give you a +8 armor bonus and a +4 enhancement bonus to your AC, it gives you a +12 armor bonus to your AC. The enhancement bonus modifies the armor, not you.

Same goes for the shield. The enhancement bonus enhances the shield bonus, giving you a higher shield bonus, not an enhancement bonus.

Like-named bonuses never stack (with the exception of dodge and circumstance) unless explicitly said so otherwise. Therefore, tossing bracers of armor into the mix won't up your AC*

Being a force effect, the bracers of armor will count against incorpereal attacks, which your armor won't help you with, but those are a very rare situation.
guru7892
10-20-05, 12:34 AM bracers of armor DO NOT stack with any armor as they are both armor bonuses.
so, bracers of armor basically replace armor? and have no spell failure and other junk?
making other things feel stupid?
Plothos
10-20-05, 12:51 AM so, bracers of armor basically replace armor? and have no spell failure and other junk?
That's right. They're a good choice for arcane casters and monks. (It's just that you can spend 100gp for a chain shirt and not even lose any speed for a +4 AC, whereas +4 from bracers will set you back 16,000gp.)
Wyrd Bearer
10-20-05, 12:53 AM so, bracers of armor basically replace armor? and have no spell failure and other junk?
making other things feel stupid?Bracers of armour exist for characters who would be impeded by wearing physical armour, such as monks and arcane casters (though I can think of more arcane casters who can cast in light armour with asf now). +5 full plate will grant more protection (+13) than the max bracers of armour (+8) in a non-epic game, so the fighter who isn't impeded by physical armour benefits more from the full plate despite the check penalty and reduced speed than he would from the bracers (there are times though when this is not true).
strumbleduck
10-20-05, 01:32 AM so, bracers of armor basically replace armor? and have no spell failure and other junk?
making other things feel stupid?

Bracers of armor are actually pretty bad in lieu of the mage armor spell. I've never had anyone use them in my campaigns.
Pliskit
10-20-05, 02:04 AM We stumble upon brazers +2 SO often everyone is wearing them, even my feline animal companion (modified ones). I don't think most of the chars need them, there being no arcane casters in the party, but well, there's not much else you can put around your wrists and it's a good back up safety for incorporeal creats.
Kendrick
10-20-05, 03:15 AM When you have +4 Full Plate, the +4 is an Enhancement bonus, but it's really not a +4 Enhancement bonus to AC, it's a +4 Enhancement bonus to the Full Plate's Armor bonus.

So if you have +4 Full Plate and a +5 Heavy Shield, the armor gives you a +12 armor bonus to AC, and the shield gives you a +7 shield bonus to AC.

Bracers of Armor give an armor bonus to AC, which overlaps with the armor bonus from actual armor.

And bracers of armor are almost always worthless. Twilight is a +1 armor enhancement that decreases spell failure by 10%. Add this to a mithral shirt, and the only characters that will even think about bracers of armor are monks and epic dex fighters. (Twilight Mithral Shirt has 0 ACP meaning you don't even have to be proficient, and 0% spell failure meaning that spellcasters can use it without risk. A +1 Twilight Mithral Shirt costs 5,100 gp and provides a +5 armor bonus to AC - compare that to the 25,000 gp for bracers of armor +5 and the bracers start to look pretty crappy.)
strumbleduck
10-20-05, 03:18 AM Twilight is a +1 armor enhancement that decreases spell failure by 10%.

Awesome! What book is this in?
Dragonsblood
10-20-05, 03:28 AM And bracers of armor are almost always worthless. Twilight is a +1 armor enhancement that decreases spell failure by 10%. Add this to a mithral shirt, and the only characters that will even think about bracers of armor are monks and epic dex fighters.

And characters that use core only...this enchancement is terribly broken.
Kendrick
10-20-05, 03:48 AM Awesome! What book is this in?

I know it's in the Book of Exalted Deeds. It may also have been reprinted somewhere else, although I can't remember where else I've seen it off hand. (Although it's in the Book of Exalted Deeds, it's not exalted material - there's no alignment restriction or anything.)
strumbleduck
10-20-05, 04:09 AM Thanks! One of my players has been wanting to play a melee gish, but for complicated reasons she can't take a level of spellsword.
White_Wizard
10-20-05, 07:09 AM this is a quicky.
i got +4 full plate and a +5 sheild, from enhancement bonuses, do i get a +9 total (armor+sheild) or a +5 (they stack so i take sheild)?

what if bracers of armor +6 are added into the mix (lets say i hit epic randomly)?
+4 full plate = +12 AC (+8 armor bonus, +4 enhancement)
+5 heavy shield = +7 AC (+2 shield bonus, +5 enhancement)
+6 bracers of armor = +6 AC (armor bonus)

But you have two armor bonuses (full plate and magic bracers); take only the highest of the two (+8 from full-plate). Ignore the other. If it was a +6 epic ring of protecion (deflection bonus) it's effects would have been added to total AC. Same goes for natural armor bonuses.
The two enhancement bonus come from the armor and from the shield. This is the only case in which two bonuses bearing the same name (enhancement) stack together, because they come from two different sources.
Shield bonus and armor bonus are added to the total as normal. So you would have a total +19 AC (+12 from magic full-plate and +7 from magic shield). Armor spell or anything giving an enhancement bonus to armor, an armor bonus or a shield bonus, should be ignored unless giving a greater AC.
Quirriff
10-20-05, 07:33 AM They wouldn't stack really, because it's not like it's tangible to stack, are the bonus' comulative? well an Enhancment bonus enhances a previous bonus, for example a +5 large Shield would grant +7 Shield bonus to AC, and +4 Full plate grants 12 Armor bonus to AC, totalling 33 AC plus +/- dex modifer. Bracers of Defence won't help.

However a Ring of Protection will add AC.
WombleHunter
10-20-05, 07:52 AM The enhancement bonuses increase different things. In the same way you can have an enhancement bonus to your Strength and your Constitution at the same time, the enhancement bonus on the armour adds to the armour's "armour" bonus, while the shield's enhancement adds to it's "shield" bonus.

Armour bonuses and shield bonuses to AC stack, so you get both.

Bracers of armour provide an "armour" bonus to AC, which is the same type of bonus as a suit of armour. You cannot stack the AC bonus from Bracers of Armour with any suit of armour, regardless of whether it is enchanted or not.
Wyrd Bearer
10-20-05, 04:17 PM We stumble upon brazers +2 SO often everyone is wearing them, even my feline animal companion (modified ones). I don't think most of the chars need them, there being no arcane casters in the party, but well, there's not much else you can put around your wrists and it's a good back up safety for incorporeal creats.Pliskit, I'm not picking on you or what you're saying, but you're the first one I came across, so that's why I'm quoting you.

To the people who are bashing the bracers of armour, remember this. Bracers of armour is a force effect (same as the mage armour needed to make them). So the AC bonus that the bracers grant you will apply in situations where the +13 bonus from the +5 full plate would be completely bypassed.
strumbleduck
10-20-05, 06:34 PM To the people who are bashing the bracers of armour, remember this. Bracers of armour is a force effect (same as the mage armour needed to make them). So the AC bonus that the bracers grant you will apply in situations where the +13 bonus from the +5 full plate would be completely bypassed.

Yeah, but why not just use mage armor?
RavenDrake
10-21-05, 12:27 AM Rogue(scouting ahead): Woops. Hey Mr. Spectre. I see you want to devour my quivering lifeforce and use it to fuel your squalid undeath. Wait right here till I nip back to the party and get Quincy to slap a Mage Armour on me.

And similar situations. Though, generally speaking, it's only useful to take up your bracer slot with em if you A.)Need them(Monk), B.)Don't have anything else to put there, C.) Anticipate you'll need them shortly(incorporeal adventures ahoy).
SamirTrollslayer
10-21-05, 12:24 PM Yeah, but why not just use mage armor?
Dispell magic
spectralphoenix
10-21-05, 12:43 PM At high levels, the bracers can be a better choice for rogues as well. A 20th level rogue with 26 dex(15 start+5level+6gloves) will get a better AC with +8 Bracers than any mithral armor +5 or leather armor +5.

Bracers = +8 armor + 8 dex +other bonuses

Mithral Shirt +5= +9 armor + 6 dex +other bonuses

Leather +5 = +7 armor + 6 dex +other bonuses
1BadazzBaatezu
10-21-05, 12:59 PM With magic armor, even if a Mordenkainens Disjunction gets dropped on you, you've still got something. OTOH, though, unless I can get some pretty nice Mithral stuff, my char's usually end up with bracers, but I'm a rogue-swashbuckler-dex fighter kinda guy...
Zherog
10-21-05, 01:06 PM Bracers of armor are actually pretty bad in lieu of the mage armor spell. I've never had anyone use them in my campaigns.

As Samir said, dispel magic will ruin your day if you rely on the mage armor spell.

Pliskit, I'm not picking on you or what you're saying, but you're the first one I came across, so that's why I'm quoting you.

To the people who are bashing the bracers of armour, remember this. Bracers of armour is a force effect (same as the mage armour needed to make them). So the AC bonus that the bracers grant you will apply in situations where the +13 bonus from the +5 full plate would be completely bypassed.

This is not true. The bracers of armor, for example, will not help you against a touch attack or ranged touch attack. It will help you against an incorporeal touch attack, such as the attack from a Shadow or Ghost.
spectralphoenix
10-21-05, 01:09 PM Originally posted by 1BadazzBaatezu
With magic armor, even if a Mordenkainens Disjunction gets dropped on you, you've still got something.

True, but the Disjunction is (hopefully) pretty rare, and even if your stuff gets dispelled, the difference between a nonmagical mithral shirt (+4 armor +6 dex = +10AC) and no armor (+8dex = +8AC) isn't that big compared to the 8-point difference vs. incorporeal attacks. Obviously, it's a matter of personal preference more than anything else, but either item works fine.
Reddius
10-21-05, 01:10 PM Enhancement bonus from Armors and Shields do stack. Its an exception and I can prove it.

Dunegon Master Guide Page 217 (first Column)

Shields: Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses, so that a +1 heavy steel sheild and +1 chainmail grants a total bonus of +9 to AC.
gbnogkfs
10-22-05, 03:40 AM Enhancement bonus from Armors and Shields do stack. Its an exception and I can prove it.

that's not an exception, ad many posters have already written above :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
guru7892 10-20-05, 12:21 AM	this is a quicky. i got +4 full plate and a +5 sheild, from enhancement bonuses, do i get a +9 total (armor+sheild) or a +5 (they stack so i take sheild)? what if bracers of armor +6 are added into the mix (lets say i hit epic randomly)?
TheChocoboMafia 10-20-05, 12:23 AM	Can't say for sure about the enhancement bonuses from armor and shield stacking or not, but the Bracers of Armor count as an armor bonus and would not stack with any armor. It's either one or the other.
Kullak-Kobold Sorcerer 10-20-05, 12:28 AM	this is a quicky. i got +4 full plate and a +5 sheild, from enhancement bonuses, do i get a +9 total (armor+sheild) or a +5 (they stack so i take sheild)? what if bracers of armor +6 are added into the mix (lets say i hit epic randomly)? Enhancement bonuses stack from Armor and Shields. This is the only time two bonus of the same type "stack". Your total would be +9. bracers of armor DO NOT stack with any armor as they are both armor bonuses.
Inigo Carmine 10-20-05, 12:32 AM	The enhancement bonuses do not stack, but they don't need to. +4 Fullplate doesn't give you a +8 armor bonus and a +4 enhancement bonus to your AC, it gives you a +12 armor bonus to your AC. The enhancement bonus modifies the armor, not you. Same goes for the shield. The enhancement bonus enhances the shield bonus, giving you a higher shield bonus, not an enhancement bonus. Like-named bonuses never stack (with the exception of dodge and circumstance) unless explicitly said so otherwise. Therefore, tossing bracers of armor into the mix won't up your AC* Being a force effect, the bracers of armor will count against incorpereal attacks, which your armor won't help you with, but those are a very rare situation.
guru7892 10-20-05, 12:34 AM	bracers of armor DO NOT stack with any armor as they are both armor bonuses. so, bracers of armor basically replace armor? and have no spell failure and other junk? making other things feel stupid?
Plothos 10-20-05, 12:51 AM	so, bracers of armor basically replace armor? and have no spell failure and other junk? That's right. They're a good choice for arcane casters and monks. (It's just that you can spend 100gp for a chain shirt and not even lose any speed for a +4 AC, whereas +4 from bracers will set you back 16,000gp.)
Wyrd Bearer 10-20-05, 12:53 AM	so, bracers of armor basically replace armor? and have no spell failure and other junk? making other things feel stupid?Bracers of armour exist for characters who would be impeded by wearing physical armour, such as monks and arcane casters (though I can think of more arcane casters who can cast in light armour with asf now). +5 full plate will grant more protection (+13) than the max bracers of armour (+8) in a non-epic game, so the fighter who isn't impeded by physical armour benefits more from the full plate despite the check penalty and reduced speed than he would from the bracers (there are times though when this is not true).
strumbleduck 10-20-05, 01:32 AM	so, bracers of armor basically replace armor? and have no spell failure and other junk? making other things feel stupid? Bracers of armor are actually pretty bad in lieu of the mage armor spell. I've never had anyone use them in my campaigns.
Pliskit 10-20-05, 02:04 AM	We stumble upon brazers +2 SO often everyone is wearing them, even my feline animal companion (modified ones). I don't think most of the chars need them, there being no arcane casters in the party, but well, there's not much else you can put around your wrists and it's a good back up safety for incorporeal creats.
Kendrick 10-20-05, 03:15 AM	When you have +4 Full Plate, the +4 is an Enhancement bonus, but it's really not a +4 Enhancement bonus to AC, it's a +4 Enhancement bonus to the Full Plate's Armor bonus. So if you have +4 Full Plate and a +5 Heavy Shield, the armor gives you a +12 armor bonus to AC, and the shield gives you a +7 shield bonus to AC. Bracers of Armor give an armor bonus to AC, which overlaps with the armor bonus from actual armor. And bracers of armor are almost always worthless. Twilight is a +1 armor enhancement that decreases spell failure by 10%. Add this to a mithral shirt, and the only characters that will even think about bracers of armor are monks and epic dex fighters. (Twilight Mithral Shirt has 0 ACP meaning you don't even have to be proficient, and 0% spell failure meaning that spellcasters can use it without risk. A +1 Twilight Mithral Shirt costs 5,100 gp and provides a +5 armor bonus to AC - compare that to the 25,000 gp for bracers of armor +5 and the bracers start to look pretty crappy.)
strumbleduck 10-20-05, 03:18 AM	Twilight is a +1 armor enhancement that decreases spell failure by 10%. Awesome! What book is this in?
Dragonsblood 10-20-05, 03:28 AM	And bracers of armor are almost always worthless. Twilight is a +1 armor enhancement that decreases spell failure by 10%. Add this to a mithral shirt, and the only characters that will even think about bracers of armor are monks and epic dex fighters. And characters that use core only...this enchancement is terribly broken.
Kendrick 10-20-05, 03:48 AM	Awesome! What book is this in? I know it's in the Book of Exalted Deeds. It may also have been reprinted somewhere else, although I can't remember where else I've seen it off hand. (Although it's in the Book of Exalted Deeds, it's not exalted material - there's no alignment restriction or anything.)
strumbleduck 10-20-05, 04:09 AM	Thanks! One of my players has been wanting to play a melee gish, but for complicated reasons she can't take a level of spellsword.
White_Wizard 10-20-05, 07:09 AM	this is a quicky. i got +4 full plate and a +5 sheild, from enhancement bonuses, do i get a +9 total (armor+sheild) or a +5 (they stack so i take sheild)? what if bracers of armor +6 are added into the mix (lets say i hit epic randomly)? +4 full plate = +12 AC (+8 armor bonus, +4 enhancement) +5 heavy shield = +7 AC (+2 shield bonus, +5 enhancement) +6 bracers of armor = +6 AC (armor bonus) But you have two armor bonuses (full plate and magic bracers); take only the highest of the two (+8 from full-plate). Ignore the other. If it was a +6 epic ring of protecion (deflection bonus) it's effects would have been added to total AC. Same goes for natural armor bonuses. The two enhancement bonus come from the armor and from the shield. This is the only case in which two bonuses bearing the same name (enhancement) stack together, because they come from two different sources. Shield bonus and armor bonus are added to the total as normal. So you would have a total +19 AC (+12 from magic full-plate and +7 from magic shield). Armor spell or anything giving an enhancement bonus to armor, an armor bonus or a shield bonus, should be ignored unless giving a greater AC.
Quirriff 10-20-05, 07:33 AM	They wouldn't stack really, because it's not like it's tangible to stack, are the bonus' comulative? well an Enhancment bonus enhances a previous bonus, for example a +5 large Shield would grant +7 Shield bonus to AC, and +4 Full plate grants 12 Armor bonus to AC, totalling 33 AC plus +/- dex modifer. Bracers of Defence won't help. However a Ring of Protection will add AC.
WombleHunter 10-20-05, 07:52 AM	The enhancement bonuses increase different things. In the same way you can have an enhancement bonus to your Strength and your Constitution at the same time, the enhancement bonus on the armour adds to the armour's "armour" bonus, while the shield's enhancement adds to it's "shield" bonus. Armour bonuses and shield bonuses to AC stack, so you get both. Bracers of armour provide an "armour" bonus to AC, which is the same type of bonus as a suit of armour. You cannot stack the AC bonus from Bracers of Armour with any suit of armour, regardless of whether it is enchanted or not.
Wyrd Bearer 10-20-05, 04:17 PM	We stumble upon brazers +2 SO often everyone is wearing them, even my feline animal companion (modified ones). I don't think most of the chars need them, there being no arcane casters in the party, but well, there's not much else you can put around your wrists and it's a good back up safety for incorporeal creats.Pliskit, I'm not picking on you or what you're saying, but you're the first one I came across, so that's why I'm quoting you. To the people who are bashing the bracers of armour, remember this. Bracers of armour is a force effect (same as the mage armour needed to make them). So the AC bonus that the bracers grant you will apply in situations where the +13 bonus from the +5 full plate would be completely bypassed.
strumbleduck 10-20-05, 06:34 PM	To the people who are bashing the bracers of armour, remember this. Bracers of armour is a force effect (same as the mage armour needed to make them). So the AC bonus that the bracers grant you will apply in situations where the +13 bonus from the +5 full plate would be completely bypassed. Yeah, but why not just use mage armor?
RavenDrake 10-21-05, 12:27 AM	Rogue(scouting ahead): Woops. Hey Mr. Spectre. I see you want to devour my quivering lifeforce and use it to fuel your squalid undeath. Wait right here till I nip back to the party and get Quincy to slap a Mage Armour on me. And similar situations. Though, generally speaking, it's only useful to take up your bracer slot with em if you A.)Need them(Monk), B.)Don't have anything else to put there, C.) Anticipate you'll need them shortly(incorporeal adventures ahoy).
SamirTrollslayer 10-21-05, 12:24 PM	Yeah, but why not just use mage armor? Dispell magic
spectralphoenix 10-21-05, 12:43 PM	At high levels, the bracers can be a better choice for rogues as well. A 20th level rogue with 26 dex(15 start+5level+6gloves) will get a better AC with +8 Bracers than any mithral armor +5 or leather armor +5. Bracers = +8 armor + 8 dex +other bonuses Mithral Shirt +5= +9 armor + 6 dex +other bonuses Leather +5 = +7 armor + 6 dex +other bonuses
1BadazzBaatezu 10-21-05, 12:59 PM	With magic armor, even if a Mordenkainens Disjunction gets dropped on you, you've still got something. OTOH, though, unless I can get some pretty nice Mithral stuff, my char's usually end up with bracers, but I'm a rogue-swashbuckler-dex fighter kinda guy...
Zherog 10-21-05, 01:06 PM	Bracers of armor are actually pretty bad in lieu of the mage armor spell. I've never had anyone use them in my campaigns. As Samir said, dispel magic will ruin your day if you rely on the mage armor spell. Pliskit, I'm not picking on you or what you're saying, but you're the first one I came across, so that's why I'm quoting you. To the people who are bashing the bracers of armour, remember this. Bracers of armour is a force effect (same as the mage armour needed to make them). So the AC bonus that the bracers grant you will apply in situations where the +13 bonus from the +5 full plate would be completely bypassed. This is not true. The bracers of armor, for example, will not help you against a touch attack or ranged touch attack. It will help you against an incorporeal touch attack, such as the attack from a Shadow or Ghost.
spectralphoenix 10-21-05, 01:09 PM	Originally posted by 1BadazzBaatezu With magic armor, even if a Mordenkainens Disjunction gets dropped on you, you've still got something. True, but the Disjunction is (hopefully) pretty rare, and even if your stuff gets dispelled, the difference between a nonmagical mithral shirt (+4 armor +6 dex = +10AC) and no armor (+8dex = +8AC) isn't that big compared to the 8-point difference vs. incorporeal attacks. Obviously, it's a matter of personal preference more than anything else, but either item works fine.
Reddius 10-21-05, 01:10 PM	Enhancement bonus from Armors and Shields do stack. Its an exception and I can prove it. Dunegon Master Guide Page 217 (first Column) Shields: Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses, so that a +1 heavy steel sheild and +1 chainmail grants a total bonus of +9 to AC.
gbnogkfs 10-22-05, 03:40 AM	Enhancement bonus from Armors and Shields do stack. Its an exception and I can prove it. that's not an exception, ad many posters have already written above :D