Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarknessEternal 03-14-05, 12:18 PM	Is there a good reason why an item that can only be used 5 times a day costs the same as an item which can be used an unlimited number of times a day? Or for that matter, why an item that can be used 10 times per day is twice as expensive as an item that has unlimited uses?
The_Ditto 03-14-05, 12:22 PM	The game assumes a max of 4 encounters per day ... Hence, it assumes that you use 1 "charge" per encounter ... And (I guess?) 1 more for kicks ... viola ... 5 per day being assumed to be the typical usage. That is ... an item that can be used only 50 times per day isn't much more useful than an item that can be used 10 times per day ... you're probably only going to use it 3-4 times anyway .. I think I recall the Sage pointing this out in the Rules of the Game .. or in an FAQ .. can't remember where I read something like this .. So yeah ... they made a lot of assumptions .. :tiphat:
Clawhound 03-14-05, 12:54 PM	Cost is based on usefullness. Cost of items is actually a game-balance issue. Useful items cost more because they have a large effect on the game. Less useful or limited items cost less.
DarknessEternal 03-14-05, 01:28 PM	Cost is based on usefullness. Cost of items is actually a game-balance issue. Useful items cost more because they have a large effect on the game. Less useful or limited items cost less. How is this response at all related to what I asked? Except that it's the exact opposite of how the rules pan out. A more useful item is cheaper than a less useful one.
Santrilla 03-14-05, 01:58 PM	How is this response at all related to what I asked? Except that it's the exact opposite of how the rules pan out. A more useful item is cheaper than a less useful one. I think his point was that cost isn't related to how 'powerful' the enchantment on an item is, that is, how much magic / resources goes into it. You'd expect an item that can be used 500 times per day would take IMMENSE amounts of resources to create, and yet it costs the same as one that can be used 5 times per day. The only real reason for this is game balance because, as The_Ditto said, you're expected to have 4 encounters per day, so any more than that supposedly isn't going to get used and is therefore not unbalancing.
The_Ditto 03-14-05, 02:31 PM	A more useful item is cheaper than a less useful one. Really?? You are comparing a generic item with unlimited charges per day to the same generic item with only 10 charges per day ... correct?? Ok, so let's look at this item: Instant Fortress: This metal cube is small, but when activated by speaking a command word it grows to form a tower 20 feet square and 30 feet high, with arrow slits on all sides and a crenellated battlement atop it. The metal walls extend 10 feet into the ground, rooting it to the spot and preventing it from being tipped over. The fortress has a small door that opens only at the command of the owner of the fortress—even knock spells can’t open the door. The adamantine walls of instant fortress have 100 hit points and hardness 20. The fortress cannot be repaired except by a wish or a miracle, which restores 50 points of damage taken. The fortress springs up in just 1 round, with the door facing the device’s owner. The door opens and closes instantly at his command. People and creatures nearby (except the owner) must be careful not to be caught by the fortress’s sudden growth. Anyone so caught takes 10d10 points of damage (Reflex DC 19 half ). The fortress is deactivated by speaking a command word (different from the one used to activate it). It cannot be deactivated unless it is empty. Strong conjuration; CL 13th; Craft Wondrous Item, mage’s magnificent mansion; Price 55,000 gp. Right .. so this item has an unlimited # of uses per day. You're trying to tell me that if it had been made with 10 charges per day .. that it'd be less useful?? :uh-huh: I say there's absolutely no effective difference in the usefullness of this item if it was usuable 10 times per day, 5 times per day or 734591 times per day .. :tiphat: Sure, there are items that could be more useful than others (stick of cure wounds comes to mind) ... but that's just it .. these rules are guidelines .. and as I already pointed out .. the game assumes you will use it only 4 times per day ... after that, it might as well be unlimited, as you won't use it more often .. (silly - yes .. but it's the truth) .. It's up to your DM (or you if that's you) to "massage" the prices of those items that are truly "more useful" with more charges ..
DarknessEternal 03-14-05, 02:33 PM	You'd expect an item that can be used 500 times per day would take IMMENSE amounts of resources to create, and yet it costs the same as one that can be used 5 times per day. 500 times a day costs 100 times as much as unlimited times per day. cost / (5 / 500) = cost * 100 This is the cost formula in the DMG and SRD.
Santrilla 03-14-05, 02:33 PM	It's up to your DM (or you if that's you) to "massage" the prices of those items that are truly "more useful" with more charges .. The_Ditto is extremely correct on this point. The prices in the DMG, and the algorithms for calculating prices for custom items, are guidelines and nothing more. There are lots of examples where the sums don't work because the item created is too powerful- pretty much any item of True Strike or Cure Light Wounds springs to mind. Use your head.