+5d6 damage when charging? [Archive] - Wizards Community

+5d6 damage when charging? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fluffypanda
12-04-05, 11:36 PM okay, lets say your character is size category Large, got Rhino Hide, which is a magic armor from the DMG, and gices a +2d6 damage bonus on charges. Now, lets say this character has the Powerfull Charge, and Greater Powerful Charge feats from miniatures handbook, which would give him a +3d6 bonus when charging. This added with the Rhino Hide gives a total bonus of +5d6. Both the description of the armor and the feats simply states that its bonus or extra damage, so the way i understand it, that would stack. I guess what im wondering about is if it really does stack? just sounds like massive bonus damage. Just picture a mid-level Half-Ogre, with the Rhino Hide and the two feats, and a huge greatsword. Thats 8d6 damage without any strength or magic modifiers. With some average magic items, decent strength scrore, and Weapon Specialization, you would probably be killing foes from massive damage fairly often when charging (if you hit of course, and they dont pass the save). I mean, just picture this character using power attack? With the various feats and class features out there that can give even more damage from power attack, this character would deal some serious damage...
TheNoblefool
12-04-05, 11:40 PM Hmm, maybe it's like a deflection bonus, where only the highest one applies? There's probably a section in the DMG that deals with that, but I can see your concern with that much bonus damage.
fluffypanda
12-05-05, 12:05 AM Well, yes, there is. I do know that two items that gives a deflection bonus to ac does not stack, and that in most cases, bonuses needs to be of different types to stack. The description of the armor and the feats simply calls the bonuses "additional" and "extra" damage, and is not a bonus type covered in the DMG. In fact, the word bonus isnt even mentioned in the description of the armor and the feats, except for in the Greater Powerfull Charge feat (and the enhancement bonus of the armor of course, but that has nothing to do with the extra damage). I seem to recall having read that bonus damage that isnt specified as anything else than simply bonus damage or similar, stacks. I know that this isn't simply bonus damage, but bonus damage only when charging, but still. I'm not sure though, so thats why i'm asking you guys for comments and/or answers =)
jaelis
12-05-05, 12:21 AM The bonus damages from rhino hide and powerful charge are both untyped, so technically they stack. House ruling that they don't stack would probably be reasonable, but it doesn't really seem necessary to me.

For instance, with your example, you had to (a) pay the LA to be a half-ogre, (b) invest two feats (c) wear otherwise sucky armor to get this benefit, which does him zero good except when he gets to charge. His hp and ac are both going to be low for his level, which seems like a perilous combination.

It is a pretty good damage bonus, no doubt, but I would say he's paid for it fairly enough.
Surreal
12-05-05, 02:26 AM It's more fun with a Minotaur, stacking the feats greater powerful charge on top of his racial ability 'powerful charge'.
Nazzareth
12-05-05, 02:46 AM Throw on the Rhino tribe charge feat for another 2d6. Do a search on the CO board for ideas, there are loads of charge builds that do massive amounts of damage. You might find one that is playable or that your DM will allow :D .
Plastic Sun
12-05-05, 03:08 AM throw in the feat power lunge from the old sword and fist (it's still legal) and then add in say...Power Attack, and then Leap Attack, grab a few levels in barbarian and then dump the rest into frenzied berserker
JiCi
12-05-05, 08:08 AM throw in the feat power lunge from the old sword and fist (it's still legal) and then add in say...Power Attack, and then Leap Attack, grab a few levels in barbarian and then dump the rest into frenzied berserker
Ouch !!
Rakzaar the Hallowed
12-05-05, 08:30 AM remember, you can only charge once every turn, so if you screw up your first charge, you need to wait 9 rounds to do it again. If the beefy fella can get first hit, hes won - but if not, the low hp and AC for charging is gonna get him/her killed.
Rolof
12-05-05, 08:43 AM In the back of the player's book, in the glossary, there is an
entry called 'multiplying'. Is your example of extra damage
a multiple, like double damage on a crit, or is it just bonus
that adds on? If it just adds on, then I guess it all stacks.
However, if these are damage multipliers like with a crit or
something, the rule states that all multipliers are added to
each other, with a minus one to each multiplyer after the
first one. Look at page 304 PHB, complete explanation with
examples are given there.
Eraleas
12-05-05, 11:43 AM And don't forget the "Valorous" weapon enchantment which doubles weapon damage when charging! :D
JBW
12-05-05, 11:55 AM you can only charge once every turn, so if you screw up your first charge, you need to wait 9 rounds to do it again.

I do not think that those words mean what you think they mean...at least not anymore.

In D&D 3.X, 1 round = 1 turn = 6 seconds.

Jay
JiCi
12-05-05, 02:05 PM And don't forget the "Valorous" weapon enchantment which doubles weapon damage when charging! :D
Ok, this is just crazy. On top of that, it stacks with each other. And, if you talk with your DM, you can substitute the hide ormor for another armor. All you need to do is to subtract the price of the actual armor and add the one of the new armor. So a Rhino Full Plate is possible.

This topic is just getting crazier and crazier every second.

And I though a sudden empowered, sudden maximized and sudden extended sphere of ultimate destruction (from Complete Arcane) was crazy enough.
janusthinker
12-05-05, 03:03 PM Crazy? The Valorous enchantment is KEY to one of my favorite characters! :schemes:

A half-orc with a Valorous longspear with the feat Headlong Rush from Races of Faerun just makes for good fun.

Okay, he takes an attack of opportunity when he charges, and yes, he's a bard. But, he does triple damage on a normal charge, and, by god, when he crits, he does quintuple damage. And if you think that doesn't put down the Frost Giant king that had a continent quaking, you don't know Gar Spearheart. :w00t:

</slightly overmuch charactermaking pride>
savant_warlord13
12-05-05, 04:53 PM get a mount and a heavy lance, a charge with a lance while mounted deals double damage
zelf_gale
12-05-05, 08:07 PM There are prestige classes as well to further improve mounted charging.
Surreal
12-06-05, 03:13 AM It's more effective overall to twink our your power attack multiplier if you want big damage on a charge. Getting the +whatever is more effective at lower levels however.
Alchahest
12-06-05, 05:07 AM if you're simply going for charge damage... go scout.
Alienfreak
12-06-05, 12:32 PM What about the Ronin Prestige Class.

Reducing your Armor to the max and adding it to Damage would give an nice effect :D
Plastic Sun
12-06-05, 12:52 PM no you guys are getting too complex...just a couple feats, a few barbarian and fighter levels and then just pour everything into frenzied berserkber
Alienfreak
12-06-05, 01:56 PM You mean an Frenzied Berserker with an Monkey Gripped Heavy Spiked Chain and then pushing his power attack really hard? Sounds great in my ears ;)

With Those 2 Charging Feats, Rhino Hide + Headlong Charge + Power Lunge + Valorous and Power attack this should be possible (i haven counted the feats ... so dont ask me if that is really possible)

(8d6+(1.5*Str)*2+Penalty*4)*3

With achievable 36 Str in lvl 20, 5 penalty on attacks and an +5 Weapon this should do about

(8d6+63)*3 Damage ... so about 273 damage ... not bad ...
Surreal
12-06-05, 09:56 PM Don't forget: leap attack, battle jump, shock trooper, and combat brute while you're at it.
Gauze Fireforge
12-06-05, 10:21 PM I guarentee you i can make a cavelier build which will outdo anything thats this charging monstrosity can do.

Dont worry about it, let him have his fun, he has built the character effectively and isn't broken in any sense. Generally, a character will only really get one charge in per combat unless combat circumstances dictate otherwise.

I know a readied grease by a spellcaster should prove interesting to your charging friend. Or simply have terrain where he cant get a straight line to the target or wqhere he has to pass through friendly squares which negates a charge.
allenchan
12-07-05, 12:55 AM You're investing a lot of resources that are purely situational, as there's lots of times when you cannot charge, so it doesnt scream "zomgz broken cheese!" to me.
fluffypanda
12-07-05, 10:42 AM I just liked the idea of delivering an attack that killed someone from massive damage for once, not the one dying from it (as usual)...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fluffypanda 12-04-05, 11:36 PM	okay, lets say your character is size category Large, got Rhino Hide, which is a magic armor from the DMG, and gices a +2d6 damage bonus on charges. Now, lets say this character has the Powerfull Charge, and Greater Powerful Charge feats from miniatures handbook, which would give him a +3d6 bonus when charging. This added with the Rhino Hide gives a total bonus of +5d6. Both the description of the armor and the feats simply states that its bonus or extra damage, so the way i understand it, that would stack. I guess what im wondering about is if it really does stack? just sounds like massive bonus damage. Just picture a mid-level Half-Ogre, with the Rhino Hide and the two feats, and a huge greatsword. Thats 8d6 damage without any strength or magic modifiers. With some average magic items, decent strength scrore, and Weapon Specialization, you would probably be killing foes from massive damage fairly often when charging (if you hit of course, and they dont pass the save). I mean, just picture this character using power attack? With the various feats and class features out there that can give even more damage from power attack, this character would deal some serious damage...
TheNoblefool 12-04-05, 11:40 PM	Hmm, maybe it's like a deflection bonus, where only the highest one applies? There's probably a section in the DMG that deals with that, but I can see your concern with that much bonus damage.
fluffypanda 12-05-05, 12:05 AM	Well, yes, there is. I do know that two items that gives a deflection bonus to ac does not stack, and that in most cases, bonuses needs to be of different types to stack. The description of the armor and the feats simply calls the bonuses "additional" and "extra" damage, and is not a bonus type covered in the DMG. In fact, the word bonus isnt even mentioned in the description of the armor and the feats, except for in the Greater Powerfull Charge feat (and the enhancement bonus of the armor of course, but that has nothing to do with the extra damage). I seem to recall having read that bonus damage that isnt specified as anything else than simply bonus damage or similar, stacks. I know that this isn't simply bonus damage, but bonus damage only when charging, but still. I'm not sure though, so thats why i'm asking you guys for comments and/or answers =)
jaelis 12-05-05, 12:21 AM	The bonus damages from rhino hide and powerful charge are both untyped, so technically they stack. House ruling that they don't stack would probably be reasonable, but it doesn't really seem necessary to me. For instance, with your example, you had to (a) pay the LA to be a half-ogre, (b) invest two feats (c) wear otherwise sucky armor to get this benefit, which does him zero good except when he gets to charge. His hp and ac are both going to be low for his level, which seems like a perilous combination. It is a pretty good damage bonus, no doubt, but I would say he's paid for it fairly enough.
Surreal 12-05-05, 02:26 AM	It's more fun with a Minotaur, stacking the feats greater powerful charge on top of his racial ability 'powerful charge'.
Nazzareth 12-05-05, 02:46 AM	Throw on the Rhino tribe charge feat for another 2d6. Do a search on the CO board for ideas, there are loads of charge builds that do massive amounts of damage. You might find one that is playable or that your DM will allow :D .
Plastic Sun 12-05-05, 03:08 AM	throw in the feat power lunge from the old sword and fist (it's still legal) and then add in say...Power Attack, and then Leap Attack, grab a few levels in barbarian and then dump the rest into frenzied berserker
JiCi 12-05-05, 08:08 AM	throw in the feat power lunge from the old sword and fist (it's still legal) and then add in say...Power Attack, and then Leap Attack, grab a few levels in barbarian and then dump the rest into frenzied berserker Ouch !!
Rakzaar the Hallowed 12-05-05, 08:30 AM	remember, you can only charge once every turn, so if you screw up your first charge, you need to wait 9 rounds to do it again. If the beefy fella can get first hit, hes won - but if not, the low hp and AC for charging is gonna get him/her killed.
Rolof 12-05-05, 08:43 AM	In the back of the player's book, in the glossary, there is an entry called 'multiplying'. Is your example of extra damage a multiple, like double damage on a crit, or is it just bonus that adds on? If it just adds on, then I guess it all stacks. However, if these are damage multipliers like with a crit or something, the rule states that all multipliers are added to each other, with a minus one to each multiplyer after the first one. Look at page 304 PHB, complete explanation with examples are given there.
Eraleas 12-05-05, 11:43 AM	And don't forget the "Valorous" weapon enchantment which doubles weapon damage when charging! :D
JBW 12-05-05, 11:55 AM	you can only charge once every turn, so if you screw up your first charge, you need to wait 9 rounds to do it again. I do not think that those words mean what you think they mean...at least not anymore. In D&D 3.X, 1 round = 1 turn = 6 seconds. Jay
JiCi 12-05-05, 02:05 PM	And don't forget the "Valorous" weapon enchantment which doubles weapon damage when charging! :D Ok, this is just crazy. On top of that, it stacks with each other. And, if you talk with your DM, you can substitute the hide ormor for another armor. All you need to do is to subtract the price of the actual armor and add the one of the new armor. So a Rhino Full Plate is possible. This topic is just getting crazier and crazier every second. And I though a sudden empowered, sudden maximized and sudden extended sphere of ultimate destruction (from Complete Arcane) was crazy enough.
janusthinker 12-05-05, 03:03 PM	Crazy? The Valorous enchantment is KEY to one of my favorite characters! :schemes: A half-orc with a Valorous longspear with the feat Headlong Rush from Races of Faerun just makes for good fun. Okay, he takes an attack of opportunity when he charges, and yes, he's a bard. But, he does triple damage on a normal charge, and, by god, when he crits, he does quintuple damage. And if you think that doesn't put down the Frost Giant king that had a continent quaking, you don't know Gar Spearheart. :w00t: </slightly overmuch charactermaking pride>
savant_warlord13 12-05-05, 04:53 PM	get a mount and a heavy lance, a charge with a lance while mounted deals double damage
zelf_gale 12-05-05, 08:07 PM	There are prestige classes as well to further improve mounted charging.
Surreal 12-06-05, 03:13 AM	It's more effective overall to twink our your power attack multiplier if you want big damage on a charge. Getting the +whatever is more effective at lower levels however.
Alchahest 12-06-05, 05:07 AM	if you're simply going for charge damage... go scout.
Alienfreak 12-06-05, 12:32 PM	What about the Ronin Prestige Class. Reducing your Armor to the max and adding it to Damage would give an nice effect :D
Plastic Sun 12-06-05, 12:52 PM	no you guys are getting too complex...just a couple feats, a few barbarian and fighter levels and then just pour everything into frenzied berserkber
Alienfreak 12-06-05, 01:56 PM	You mean an Frenzied Berserker with an Monkey Gripped Heavy Spiked Chain and then pushing his power attack really hard? Sounds great in my ears ;) With Those 2 Charging Feats, Rhino Hide + Headlong Charge + Power Lunge + Valorous and Power attack this should be possible (i haven counted the feats ... so dont ask me if that is really possible) (8d6+(1.5Str)2+Penalty4)3 With achievable 36 Str in lvl 20, 5 penalty on attacks and an +5 Weapon this should do about (8d6+63)*3 Damage ... so about 273 damage ... not bad ...
Surreal 12-06-05, 09:56 PM	Don't forget: leap attack, battle jump, shock trooper, and combat brute while you're at it.
Gauze Fireforge 12-06-05, 10:21 PM	I guarentee you i can make a cavelier build which will outdo anything thats this charging monstrosity can do. Dont worry about it, let him have his fun, he has built the character effectively and isn't broken in any sense. Generally, a character will only really get one charge in per combat unless combat circumstances dictate otherwise. I know a readied grease by a spellcaster should prove interesting to your charging friend. Or simply have terrain where he cant get a straight line to the target or wqhere he has to pass through friendly squares which negates a charge.
allenchan 12-07-05, 12:55 AM	You're investing a lot of resources that are purely situational, as there's lots of times when you cannot charge, so it doesnt scream "zomgz broken cheese!" to me.
fluffypanda 12-07-05, 10:42 AM	I just liked the idea of delivering an attack that killed someone from massive damage for once, not the one dying from it (as usual)...