Post/Author/DateTime	Post
redgamer 12-20-07, 10:24 PM	Using craft arms and armor and wizard spells levels 1-3 what is the best +6 equivilent weapon I can make? Please mention the books if not PHB. I may also make a +4 weapon and then get someone to add holy. Thanks
Narthon 12-20-07, 10:32 PM	Adamantine weapon +5 with a +1 enhancement on it. Or, What do you want to do? More information is needed.
redgamer 12-20-07, 10:48 PM	I want to kill stuff with it. If I knew I was fighting ice demons I would get a axiomix, holy, evil outsider bane weapon and be done with it. But I need a fairly generic melee weapon.
Tedronai 12-20-07, 11:00 PM	class, race, role in the party, weapon of choice? All of those could potentially impact the value of a given weapon enchantment combination.
littlekid 12-20-07, 11:02 PM	I think there's an enchantment that lets you add any of the element types to damage, but I don't remember the book. Other than that, what Tedronai said.
jaelis 12-20-07, 11:03 PM	For general purposes it's hard to beat straight enhancement bonuses. After that, I rather like blessed (MIC) if you mostly fight evil monsters. The element enhancements (flaming etc) are fine. Keen is good for a weapon that already has good crits like a rapier or scythe. Depending on your class and feats, there might be something that works well with your build. (Berserker, for instance, for a barbarian.)
Aryxbez 12-20-07, 11:06 PM	+1, collision(+2) (MIC), Holy(+2), Vicious(+1), weapon This is assuming you only want damage, also Berserking (MIC) might be up your alley, if you are a barbarian. Also if you fear sunderers, I hear there is this one metal from complete divine or from libris mortis. Where the metal essentially when broken, can reform, retaining all the weapons enchantments.
Sinfire Titan 12-20-07, 11:32 PM	+1, collision(+2) (MIC), Holy(+2), Vicious(+1), weapon This is assuming you only want damage, also Berserking (MIC) might be up your alley, if you are a barbarian. Also if you fear sunderers, I hear there is this one metal from complete divine or from libris mortis. Where the metal essentially when broken, can reform, retaining all the weapons enchantments. That metal is from the Book of Exalted Deeds. And like most things in that book, it's somewhat overpowered.
runestar 12-20-07, 11:39 PM	You can consider leaving your weapon's enhancement bonus at +1, and relying on greater magic weapon to boost it. This leaves you with +5 worth of weapon enchantments. Holy is pretty good. Consider metalline if you expect to run into lots of dfferent metallic-dr foes. Wrathful healing (cannot remember from where) is a tad ex at +3, but very useful (heal hp = damage dealt, IIRC).
Jaxgaret 12-20-07, 11:55 PM	I don't really have an answer to your specific question, but here are some interesting +6 weapons: A +1 Cursespewing Doom-Burst or Cursespewing Enervating 18-20/x2 weapon with a Scabbard of Keen Edges could be pretty fun. A +1 Holy-Surge Blessed Heavenly-Burst 18-20/x2 weapon with a Scabbard of Keen Edges could also be nice. A +1 Throwing Impaling Impedance Illusion-Bane weapon would be neat for mage disruption.
BugHunter 12-21-07, 12:03 AM	You can make it a +3 weapon and use the greater weapon crystals (MIC) to give you more options to change on the fly. The most expensive of the crystals is 10000 gold, the drawback is you can only have one in at a time and it takes a move action to change but with no AoO.
Saiyamantis 12-21-07, 12:17 AM	Since everyone should have at least Weapon Focus for their preferred weapon, Aptitude (from Tome of Battle) essentially converts a single +1 enhancement into a typeless bonus. It's a nice, sneaky way of getting what amounts to a +6 weapon pre-epic.
sapient 12-21-07, 02:53 AM	If you want to deal damage, I suggest you look into making your weapon spell storing (either with the property or with crystals or - if you play Eberron - Dragonshards). Then you can store a useful spell like Vampiric Touch and use against powerful opponents. Vampiric touch will do a number of d6 in damage to your foes, 1 per two caster levels of the spell caster who place the spell in your weapon, and give you the same amount as temporary hit points. So even if it is a spell storing weapon that needs to be recharged by the caster of your group (thus limiting the number of uses per day) it will still be a powerful boost for you in a tough fight. Some of the other options, like using Eberron Dragonshards, can be made to auto-replenish the spell. Then the use becomes independent of the party casters "spells per day" limitations and thus becomes a lot more powerful. But since Dragonshards are Eberron specific, and I don't remember exactly what the crystals in Magic Item Compendium says, you'll have to look into that possibility more yourself. An ordinary spell storing ability of a weapon is a +1 enhancement, can store a spell up to 3rd level and using it is a free action so you can decide whether to use it after the hit has been resolved. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#spellStoring And here is info on the spell Vampiric Touch: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/vampiricTouch.htm In my experience it is a very good way to boost a weapon with a simple +1 enhancement, even if it is limited to a few uses per day to begin with. .
narack 12-21-07, 08:07 AM	enhancement bonus = +1 Bane (outsider) = +1 Acid Burst = +2 Keen = +1 Good = +1 (not holy which does 2D6 the good which deal 1D6) +1 Good Keen Bane(outsider) acid burst Adamantium rapier Normal 1D6 + 1(bonus) + STR + 1D6(acid) + 2D6(vsOutsider) + 1D6(GoodDamage) = 5D6 + 1 + STR 15-20/X2 On Critical the total is : 6D6 + 2 + (STR X 2) + 1D10 15/20 = 25% of time. I selected Acid because really rare creature have protection agaisnt acid and acide destroy armors and weapons also. for real cheap you could also add in it a Greater Rubicund Frenzy (MIC) it give extra 5 damage when under half HP so +10 in critical.
runestar 12-21-07, 09:00 AM	I selected Acid because really rare creature have protection agaisnt acid and acide destroy armors and weapons also. Note that as a general thumb of rule, if you are seeking to enchant a 2-handed weapon, the burst weapon properties are not really worth it, as they are mathematically inferior to simply improving the direct enhancement bonus of the weapon (since you can funnel the excess to-hit into more damage via power attack).
Rebel7284 12-21-07, 09:27 AM	Is +1 vorpal worth it in general?
Narthon 12-21-07, 09:56 AM	Is +1 vorpal worth it in general? No.
Merestil Haye 12-21-07, 11:09 AM	Just to remind people; the OP asked for special abilities that have prerequisites limited to Wizard/Sorcerer spells of no more than 3rd level. Holy (to name but one of the suggestions) does not meet that criterion. Bane, Brilliant Energy, Defending, Flaming, Flaming Burst, Keen, Shock, Shocking Burst, Speed, Spell Storing and Thundering are the properties matching those criteria in the SRD. I daresay there are a lot of others in the various splatbooks. Perhaps a +1 Flaming Shock Defending Keen Bane weapon, with Greater Magic Weapon cast on it every morning, would work.
narack 12-21-07, 12:30 PM	Note that as a general thumb of rule, if you are seeking to enchant a 2-handed weapon, the burst weapon properties are not really worth it, as they are mathematically inferior to simply improving the direct enhancement bonus of the weapon (since you can funnel the excess to-hit into more damage via power attack). a +3 two handed sword will deal exact same damage as a +1 acid burst two handed on normal hits +3 = 2d6 + 3 = 9 (avg) +3 (crit) = 4d6 + 6 = 18 (avg) +1 acid = 2D6 + 1D6 = 9 (avg) +1 acid (crit) = 4D6 + 1D6 + 1D10 = 20 (avg) your average is equal on normal hit but acid win by little over enhancement on crit
mvincent 12-21-07, 02:42 PM	Using craft arms and armor and wizard spells levels 1-3 what is the best +6 equivilent weapon I can make? Please mention the books if not PHB. I may also make a +4 weapon and then get someone to add holy.Holy is a must (mainly for bypass DR at higher levels). Other good additions: - Spell storing - Merciful - Intelligent Also note: at higher levels, the weapon's raw enhancement bonus can (and probably should) be supplied by the Greater Magic Weapon spell.
Merestil Haye 12-21-07, 03:00 PM	your average is equal on normal hit but acid win by little over enhancement on critThat doesn't cover everything. The two weapons deal about the same amount of damage per successful hit. However, the +3 weapon will deliver more successful hits (unless the AC of the target is trivially easy or almost impossible to hit). Let's suppose these weapons (Greatswords will do) are being wielded against a foe with AC 30 by characters who have +15 to hit, before considering the enhancement of the blades. Using the +3 sword would require 12 on a d20 to hit, while the +1 Acid Burst greatsword would need a 14. The +1 Acid Burst will hit with 35% of blows. 10% of blows will threaten crits and 35% of threats will confirm; thus the average damage of the weapon is (10.5*0.35) + (12.5*0.035) = 3.675+0.4375 = 4.1125 hp per blow. The +3 greatsword will hit with 45% of blows. 10% of blows will threaten crits, and 45% of threats will confirm; thus the average damage of the weapon is (9*0.45) + (9*0.045)+ = 4.05+0.405 = 4.455 hp per blow. The foregoing ignores boundary conditions.
redgamer 12-21-07, 03:59 PM	Just to remind people; the OP asked for special abilities that have prerequisites limited to Wizard/Sorcerer spells of no more than 3rd level. Holy (to name but one of the suggestions) does not meet that criterion. Bane, Brilliant Energy, Defending, Flaming, Flaming Burst, Keen, Shock, Shocking Burst, Speed, Spell Storing and Thundering are the properties matching those criteria in the SRD. I daresay there are a lot of others in the various splatbooks. Perhaps a +1 Flaming Shock Defending Keen Bane weapon, with Greater Magic Weapon cast on it every morning, would work. Yes. Having the weapon craftable by a wizard with 3 level spells and 11 caster levels is mandatory. This rules out some good enhancements. Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far.
Cold Napalm 12-21-07, 07:05 PM	Yes. Having the weapon craftable by a wizard with 3 level spells and 11 caster levels is mandatory. This rules out some good enhancements. Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far. Buh? How does that work?!? Assuming wizard 6/anything else 4 with practiced spell caster, that works out to CL 10 with 3rd level spells. If the wizard is any higher level, he gets 4th level spells. Oh well in anycase if the CL is 11 I guess a spell storing is out...amongst other things. I would go with a +1 frost shocking keen sword and wait. Maybe toss in vampiric if the CL for it isn't too high (don't know since I don't have the MIC nearby).
runestar 12-21-07, 09:06 PM	a +3 two handed sword will deal exact same damage as a +1 acid burst two handed on normal hits +3 = 2d6 + 3 = 9 (avg) +3 (crit) = 4d6 + 6 = 18 (avg) +1 acid = 2D6 + 1D6 = 9 (avg) +1 acid (crit) = 4D6 + 1D6 + 1D10 = 20 (avg) your average is equal on normal hit but acid win by little over enhancement on crit You forget that among all other things equal, the fighter wielding the +3 weapon can PA for 2, giving him +4 damage, while still having the same attack roll as the fighter wielding the +1 acidic burst greatsword. This gives him +7 damage on each hit, as compared to +1d6 acid damage, or 2-16 acid damage on a crit. He should now come out ahead.:)
redgamer 12-22-07, 02:43 PM	Buh? How does that work?!? Assuming wizard 6/anything else 4 with practiced spell caster, that works out to CL 10 with 3rd level spells. If the wizard is any higher level, he gets 4th level spells. Oh well in anycase if the CL is 11 I guess a spell storing is out...amongst other things. I would go with a +1 frost shocking keen sword and wait. Maybe toss in vampiric if the CL for it isn't too high (don't know since I don't have the MIC nearby). There are plently of ways to boost caster level. Equipment being the most obvious. Adding +1 enhancment assuming this means you power attack for one more give +3 damage. Adding +1d6 adds 3.5 damage on average. Off course most of the d6s enemies can be immune,resistanc, or vulnerable to said damage. In most campaigns the presense of greater magic weapon makes +2 (or more) enhancement redundant.
Cold Napalm 12-22-07, 04:10 PM	There are plently of ways to boost caster level. Equipment being the most obvious. Adding +1 enhancment assuming this means you power attack for one more give +3 damage. Adding +1d6 adds 3.5 damage on average. Off course most of the d6s enemies can be immune,resistanc, or vulnerable to said damage. In most campaigns the presense of greater magic weapon makes +2 (or more) enhancement redundant. Either he's a rather horrible made wizard (or is a gish...even then a wizard based gish should only be losing 1-2 cl at this point, not 4) or he's a level 6 wizard with WAY to much wealth for his level. I mean a +1 CL item is 15k by pricing guidelines which should go up exponetially if it's on the same item. So assuming 5 slotted +1 CL items with no non affinity penalty and your looking 75 grand. In either case giving us what item your sticking things on MIGHT help. Enchanting one handers varies from two for instance.
Sinfire Titan 12-23-07, 04:36 AM	Actually, my favorite +6 or better weapon is the Incarnate Weapon soulmeld. Cost? What cost? I know not this cost you speak of, and I own a +7 longsword/flail/mace/battleaxe that never breaks. Ah, the joys of being an Incarnate.
aelryinth 12-23-07, 02:40 PM	Yeah, right until the incarnate weapon is dispelled at the worst time for you. Anyways, I'd recommend an adamantine +3 Shadow Striking weapon. This gets you virtual immunity to sundering, the ability to carve up stuff, and it bypasses all DR for you. Use Weapon Augment crystals for elmental damage, dmg against fiends, dmg against undead, and the like. Get a Scabbard of Keen Edges. ===Aelryinth
archerpwr 12-23-07, 03:24 PM	Yeah, right until the incarnate weapon is dispelled at the worst time for you. AFB, but I'm pretty darn sure that soulmelds are merely suppressed and are treated as having a CL=Incarnate or totemist level. That means the dispel check is harder than a standard weapon (3*bonus, max 15) and it's cheaper. If it weren't for the wizard bab, incarnates would be pretty hoss.
Qube 12-23-07, 04:20 PM	adamantine, magical wounding ghost touch and later shadow striking ...
Rulebook 12-24-07, 03:55 PM	+5 ghost touch. good all-purpose sword.
CryoSilver 12-24-07, 04:07 PM	+5 Defending sword also has its merits, like when you have to run like hell. A +5 Defending sword combined with Combat Expertise is +10 AC right there.
Jaxgaret 12-24-07, 04:42 PM	+5 ghost touch. +5 Defending sword You're usually better off going with a +1 weapon with enhancements on it, and getting it enchanted with GMW every day.
CryoSilver 12-24-07, 04:59 PM	I've played with too many Dispel-happy DMs to trust GMW for my primary weapon.
mvincent 12-24-07, 05:10 PM	I've played with too many Dispel-happy DMs to trust GMW for my primary weapon.Well, if it's an area dispel then it only gets rid of one spell, so it's not all bad. Also, my group typically casts our buffs (like GMW) with increased CL's from things like orange ioun stone, death knell and prayer bead of karma, candle of invocation, etc., which increased the enhancement bonus and made them pretty hard to dispel. Once you reach CL20 (for a +5 enhancement bonus), regular dispel magic can't even do anything (the DC is too high).
Rulebook 12-24-07, 05:15 PM	meh, cant always rely on being near a caster, and if the caster can spare a spell or two like that. i like my workhorse sword. it does nicely in most situations, and you can use other weapons for any more specific work.
Jaxgaret 12-24-07, 07:56 PM	I've played with too many Dispel-happy DMs to trust GMW for my primary weapon. But you're still up on the game, even if the DM Dispels your weapon every so often; a +1 sword with +5 worth of enhancements enchanted with GMW effectively functions as a much more costly sword pre-Dispel, and as a +6 sword post-Dispel. The +6 sword is simply a +6 sword. It's not like the Dispel is taking away something from you that you wouldn't have anyway; you have the base +6 weapon either way. But some of the time (before your weapon gets Dispelled), you have a +8 or better weapon. meh, cant always rely on being near a caster, and if the caster can spare a spell or two like that. True enough. It works best at mid-high levels (level 8+). But you're definitely into mid levels at the very least if you're waving around a +5 or better weapon.
CryoSilver 12-24-07, 09:54 PM	It's metagaming on the DM's part, but my weapon ALWAYS got hit with a Greater Dispelling, so I just gave up and had it re-echanted as a +5 weapon.
Jaxgaret 12-24-07, 10:45 PM	It's metagaming on the DM's part, but my weapon ALWAYS got hit with a Greater Dispelling, so I just gave up and had it re-echanted as a +5 weapon. How is Dispelling the warrior's primary weapon metagaming? If that warrior is a real threat, it's not a bad idea.
CryoSilver 12-24-07, 10:48 PM	How is Dispelling the warrior's primary weapon metagaming? If that warrior is a real threat, it's not a bad idea. Because he only Dispelled the weapon when it had spells cast on it, and didn't Dispel the wizard, who would likely have more buffs, but didn't. It was like every enemy we faced knew our tactics. Still a fun game though.
runestar 12-24-07, 10:50 PM	Shadow striking seems horrendously overpriced at +3. Is there some reason I will be worse off using metalline (+1) and sure-striking (+1) instead? Few foes, if any, have more than one metallic and/or alignment based dr, so I seem to be getting the same deal at +2. :confused:
Jaxgaret 12-24-07, 11:05 PM	Because he only Dispelled the weapon when it had spells cast on it, and didn't Dispel the wizard, who would likely have more buffs, but didn't. It was like every enemy we faced knew our tactics. Still a fun game though. Ah, so metagaming all around.
CryoSilver 12-25-07, 12:17 PM	Metagaming for everyone! Merry Xmas! *hands out little boxes of metagame*
Jaxgaret 12-25-07, 01:44 PM	Metagaming for everyone! Merry Xmas! *hands out little boxes of metagame* Thank you, CryoSilver. Merry Xmas! Here you go *hands you a box of fallacy*.
aelryinth 12-25-07, 02:44 PM	Here's an alternative for you to consider. +3 Aptitude "Stance" Shadow Striker. It's +7, but here's the kicker. +3 allows use of Greater Weapon Augment crystals, which will get you fiend and undead slayer, elemental damage, and Ghost Touch. Default to Ghost Touch. Aptitude is 'invisible', but gets you +1/+1. So if you get a GMW, you get +6 th/dmg potentially. Do you have a Martial Stance? If not, you should. Being in a Martial Stance, such as Thicket of Blades, means that if you make your Weapon a Devoted Spirit weapon, it's +3 Th. that means that without a GMW, you could have a sword with +7 th/+4 dmg. With GMW, +9/+6. Power Attack for the win, baby! Last, Shadow Striker to get around DR. Note that shadow striker not only bypasses material/alignment DR, but dmg type (pierce, blud, slash), and even works against dr x/- and Epic DR (I believe, correct me if wrong). Make the sword adamantine or glassteel just to resist sundering. +3 is a minimum if you want greater weapon Augment crystals, and you do. ===Aelryinth
kalstrand 12-25-07, 09:46 PM	Shadow striking seems horrendously overpriced at +3. Is there some reason I will be worse off using metalline (+1) and sure-striking (+1) instead? Few foes, if any, have more than one metallic and/or alignment based dr, so I seem to be getting the same deal at +2. :confused: Because it takes 2 Standard Actions to set your Metalline, Sure-Striking weapon to bypass the DR while it only takes 1 hit with the Shadow Strikng weapon.
mvincent 12-26-07, 01:44 PM	It's metagaming on the DM's part, but my weapon ALWAYS got hit with a Greater Dispelling, so I just gave up and had it re-echanted as a +5 weapon.Well, to have a decent chance at dispelling the GMW, the opposing Wizard will likely be of a pretty decent level (compared to your party). Against such opponents, if you can have him waste a round debuffing you (instead of casting some other truly nasty spell), then that will probably benefit your party. The combat shouldn't last more than 2 or 3 rounds anyway (at least: not for opposing spell-casters). Then just take a day (teleport or rope-trick) to rebuff after the combat. If the DM complains that you're taking too much down-time, explain that it wouldn't be necessary if he was doing damage (like a man) instead of cheesy debuffs ;)
Toki_Wartooth 12-26-07, 01:50 PM	Thank you, CryoSilver. Merry Xmas! Here you go *hands you a box of fallacy*. "To all the fellas out there with ladies to impress It's easy to do just follow these steps 1: Cut a hole in a box 2: Put your fallacy in that box 3: Make her open the box And that's the way you do it It's my fallacy in a box... my fallacy in a box babe "
CryoSilver 12-26-07, 02:01 PM	Also, I have no clue what exactly you're celebrating, but to all who are, happy Boxing Day!
Jaxgaret 12-26-07, 02:41 PM	"To all the fellas out there with ladies to impress It's easy to do just follow these steps 1: Cut a hole in a box 2: Put your fallacy in that box 3: Make her open the box And that's the way you do it It's my fallacy in a box... my fallacy in a box babe " Brutal.
aelryinth 12-26-07, 03:09 PM	Well, to have a decent chance at dispelling the GMW, the opposing Wizard will likely be of a pretty decent level (compared to your party). Against such opponents, if you can have him waste a round debuffing you (instead of casting some other truly nasty spell), then that will probably benefit your party. The combat shouldn't last more than 2 or 3 rounds anyway (at least: not for opposing spell-casters). Then just take a day (teleport or rope-trick) to rebuff after the combat. If the DM complains that you're taking too much down-time, explain that it wouldn't be necessary if he was doing damage (like a man) instead of cheesy debuffs ;) My words as a DM to this tactic would be "I wouldn't be able to do it if you wore permanent items instead of relying on cheesy buffs all the time. Thanks for giving the enemy plenty of time to prepare for your return..." ===Aelryinth
mvincent 12-26-07, 03:47 PM	My words as a DM to this tactic would be "I wouldn't be able to do it if you wore permanent items instead of relying on cheesy buffs all the time. Thanks for giving the enemy plenty of time to prepare for your return..."Heh. Yup, that would be an entirely appropriate response. Still, the player's primary issue (i.e. DM specifically targeting his GMW'd weapon) will have been solved. One could also wear a ring of counterspells (loaded with GDM), or have a bunch of CL21 magic mouths cast on you (works vs. area GDM's), or initially carry a decoy weapon. "I like cheesy Buffs, You like Cheesy Buffs, If you don't like Cheesy Buffs You'd be lame."- Cartman
Mirannan 12-26-07, 05:08 PM	Brilliant Energy is extremely useful, for some wielders and against some opponents. Of course, it only helps against opponents most of whose AC is armour. It also isn't very suitable for anyone sneaky, unless perhaps you have Quick Draw. (The 20' radius sphere of light around you is a bit of a giveaway.) The main problem is of course that it doesn't work against unliving opponents, which includes undead. Brilliant Energy with a damaging secondary effect (maybe sonic or holy) might be very effective, but that starts making the weapon very expensive. I would argue that even if the weapon doesn't do any damage in itself, it's still hitting - so the bonus damage goes off anyway.