8, 9, or 10 attacks? what about epic atttack bonus? [Archive] - Wizards Community

8, 9, or 10 attacks? what about epic atttack bonus? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
toddfrazie
04-03-07, 12:51 AM Okey Dokey... An epic level Character, whom I run, has went up completely in fighter like levels (1 base attack per level) We have read in the epic level handbook that ones base attack does not increase past +20. The bonus to attack for being epic level is an "epic attack bonus", not base attack. This raises a few questions:

1. Can power attack be pumped from the epic level bonuses, passing 20?

2. With Perfect two weapon fighting feet, at 26th level, would he be considered to have 8 total attacks, as we have calculated?

3. The Way Perfect two weapon fighting is worded, says that you have as many attacks with your off hand as your leading hand. Does this imply that, when hasted, he gets 10 attacks (five with each hand), or simply 9?

Tell us what you think.
3DJutsu
04-03-07, 01:09 AM Haste simply gives you an extra attack, it say nothing of it coming from your primary hand, so I would think the attack is singular but can come from either the off-hand or primary.
Someone
04-03-07, 01:19 AM This probably belongs on the epic forums, but here goes.

1. Yes. You can drop every point of BAB, including epic BAB, into power attack.

2. Yes. It would be (without any modifiers) +23/+23/+18/+18/+13/+13/+11/+11.

3. I believe the answer is yes. There was probably a FAW on it.
runestar
04-03-07, 01:44 AM 3. The Way Perfect two weapon fighting is worded, says that you have as many attacks with your off hand as your leading hand. Does this imply that, when hasted, he gets 10 attacks (five with each hand), or simply 9?
I think it simply means your base number of main-hand attacks, basically the capstone of the TWFing feat tree. It is odd though, since the way it is worded does suggest somehow that it is possible to get 5 or more base main-hand attacks. Maybe it was just poor wording on the game designer's part, or to make allowance for some future ability which might allow players to overcome this limit somehow?:confused:
Qube
04-03-07, 07:57 AM 1. Yes. You can drop every point of BAB, including epic BAB, into power attack.
I don't know in 3.5, but in 3.0 epic he did NOT gain "base attack bonus" but yust "attack bonus". hence in 3.0 you were still limited.
(also since BAB gives you additional attacks).
StalkerEntreri
04-03-07, 07:59 AM The epic bonus you gain is the same as Base Attack Bonus, it just does not grant you more attacks per round
Witch
04-03-07, 04:58 PM 1. Yes, it can. Epic Attack Bonus is identical to Base Attack Bonus for all purposes except the speed at which you gain it and the number of attacks you have.

2. Yes.

3. 9, in my opinion. I'd need to get more input for certainty.
Nezkrul
04-03-07, 09:56 PM 3. would be yes. you can have 5 main hand attacks with a non-monk weapon with core rules... Speed special ability :D The way the feat is written, when used with a speed weapon in your main hand you would get 5 off-hand attacks as well. Flurry of Blows and Haste spell only add extra attacks to your full-attack action they aren't specifically 'with your main hand'.

Non-core example of insane number of attacks with P2WF would be to use Time Stands Still with Raging Mongoose and have a Speed Weapon - first full attack action would yield 14 swings (8 off hand, 6 main hand) second full attack action would yield 10 swings (5 and 5; raging mongoose isn't tied to a full attack action and speed doesn't stack with it)
Igfig
04-05-07, 12:50 AM I don't think Raging Mongoose stacks with Speed, actually. And if you really want an insane number of attacks, try a Warblade 10/Eternal Blade 10 with the same Time Stands Still and Raging Mongoose combo, plus Girallon's Blessing.

You end up with (4 base + 4x3 off hand + 4 raging monogoose + (4 base + 4x3 off hand) time stands still) x2 Island in Time

for a total of 64 attacks in one round.

And if you do let Speed stack, you can get eight more attacks out of it.

It's also possible to get a base six attacks in a round with a Mnk 11/Ftr8+, on a Flurry of Blows.
Terraneaux
04-05-07, 12:55 AM Technically, Perfect TWF and Perfect MWF work when combined with haste or similar effects (or that triplestrike spell from lost empires). You can get a lot of attacks this way; i suggest combining it with a multilimbed form.
Nezkrul
04-05-07, 10:04 AM raging mongoose isn't tied to a full attack action and speed doesn't stack with it)

missed that part? the reason you get 8 off hand 6 main hand on the first full attack is because it DOESN'T stack, otherwise it would be 9 and 7.

8 off hand because primary hand gets six thanx to raging mongoose so off hand gets 6 + 2 more for raging mongoose effect.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
toddfrazie 04-03-07, 12:51 AM	Okey Dokey... An epic level Character, whom I run, has went up completely in fighter like levels (1 base attack per level) We have read in the epic level handbook that ones base attack does not increase past +20. The bonus to attack for being epic level is an "epic attack bonus", not base attack. This raises a few questions: 1. Can power attack be pumped from the epic level bonuses, passing 20? 2. With Perfect two weapon fighting feet, at 26th level, would he be considered to have 8 total attacks, as we have calculated? 3. The Way Perfect two weapon fighting is worded, says that you have as many attacks with your off hand as your leading hand. Does this imply that, when hasted, he gets 10 attacks (five with each hand), or simply 9? Tell us what you think.
3DJutsu 04-03-07, 01:09 AM	Haste simply gives you an extra attack, it say nothing of it coming from your primary hand, so I would think the attack is singular but can come from either the off-hand or primary.
Someone 04-03-07, 01:19 AM	This probably belongs on the epic forums, but here goes. 1. Yes. You can drop every point of BAB, including epic BAB, into power attack. 2. Yes. It would be (without any modifiers) +23/+23/+18/+18/+13/+13/+11/+11. 3. I believe the answer is yes. There was probably a FAW on it.
runestar 04-03-07, 01:44 AM	3. The Way Perfect two weapon fighting is worded, says that you have as many attacks with your off hand as your leading hand. Does this imply that, when hasted, he gets 10 attacks (five with each hand), or simply 9? I think it simply means your base number of main-hand attacks, basically the capstone of the TWFing feat tree. It is odd though, since the way it is worded does suggest somehow that it is possible to get 5 or more base main-hand attacks. Maybe it was just poor wording on the game designer's part, or to make allowance for some future ability which might allow players to overcome this limit somehow?:confused:
Qube 04-03-07, 07:57 AM	1. Yes. You can drop every point of BAB, including epic BAB, into power attack. I don't know in 3.5, but in 3.0 epic he did NOT gain "base attack bonus" but yust "attack bonus". hence in 3.0 you were still limited. (also since BAB gives you additional attacks).
StalkerEntreri 04-03-07, 07:59 AM	The epic bonus you gain is the same as Base Attack Bonus, it just does not grant you more attacks per round
Witch 04-03-07, 04:58 PM	1. Yes, it can. Epic Attack Bonus is identical to Base Attack Bonus for all purposes except the speed at which you gain it and the number of attacks you have. 2. Yes. 3. 9, in my opinion. I'd need to get more input for certainty.
Nezkrul 04-03-07, 09:56 PM	3. would be yes. you can have 5 main hand attacks with a non-monk weapon with core rules... Speed special ability :D The way the feat is written, when used with a speed weapon in your main hand you would get 5 off-hand attacks as well. Flurry of Blows and Haste spell only add extra attacks to your full-attack action they aren't specifically 'with your main hand'. Non-core example of insane number of attacks with P2WF would be to use Time Stands Still with Raging Mongoose and have a Speed Weapon - first full attack action would yield 14 swings (8 off hand, 6 main hand) second full attack action would yield 10 swings (5 and 5; raging mongoose isn't tied to a full attack action and speed doesn't stack with it)
Igfig 04-05-07, 12:50 AM	I don't think Raging Mongoose stacks with Speed, actually. And if you really want an insane number of attacks, try a Warblade 10/Eternal Blade 10 with the same Time Stands Still and Raging Mongoose combo, plus Girallon's Blessing. You end up with (4 base + 4x3 off hand + 4 raging monogoose + (4 base + 4x3 off hand) time stands still) x2 Island in Time for a total of 64 attacks in one round. And if you do let Speed stack, you can get eight more attacks out of it. It's also possible to get a base six attacks in a round with a Mnk 11/Ftr8+, on a Flurry of Blows.
Terraneaux 04-05-07, 12:55 AM	Technically, Perfect TWF and Perfect MWF work when combined with haste or similar effects (or that triplestrike spell from lost empires). You can get a lot of attacks this way; i suggest combining it with a multilimbed form.
Nezkrul 04-05-07, 10:04 AM	raging mongoose isn't tied to a full attack action and speed doesn't stack with it) missed that part? the reason you get 8 off hand 6 main hand on the first full attack is because it DOESN'T stack, otherwise it would be 9 and 7. 8 off hand because primary hand gets six thanx to raging mongoose so off hand gets 6 + 2 more for raging mongoose effect.