+? weapon enhancement bonus for subdual to lethal effect [Archive] - Wizards Community

+? weapon enhancement bonus for subdual to lethal effect [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tivs
05-11-05, 11:15 PM What would +X be on this enhancement for this magical weapon enhancement.

Converta all subdual damage to lethal damage. (literally removes all subdual damage then adds that amount of damage as a bonus to the damage you are doing) Wielder may suppress this ability at will.

+1?
tarkin
05-12-05, 10:50 AM Here is the important question you need to answer:

What does the weapon due against a creature with regeneration?

Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate.

Would your weapon do lethal damage to a regenerating creature? If so, +1 is too weak. Then it would be +2 or even +3.
chocobochicken
05-12-05, 10:56 AM If it's just an ability to turn nonlethal damage to lethal damage while ignoring the usual -4 penalty, then I'd say it's good as a +1.
tivs
05-12-05, 01:37 PM vs a creature with regen like a troll
i don't remember if ppl with regen are immune to subdual dmg, if they are then this weapon enhancement is useless.

If it's just an ability to turn nonlethal damage to lethal damage while ignoring the usual -4 penalty, then I'd say it's good as a +1.
no it doesn't turn nonlethal dmg to lethal on this attack, it turns ALL of the nonlethal dmg on the target into lethal.

for instance
barbarian named bob with 300 hp

i have a sap with this enhancement on it

i hit bob 20 times for 30 subdual dmg.
now i figure bob has enough subdual dmg stacked up so i say ok weapon enhancement, do your trick.
so on my 21st hit i do 2 subdual dmg+weapons effect,
the enhancement removes 30 subdual from bob, and adds 30 dmg to your attack.

so on your 21st attack you just hit bob for 30dmg+2 subdual
tivs
05-16-05, 07:02 AM anyone?
Bluebrush
05-16-05, 08:04 AM So... Basically you need a way to turn a sap into a light mace?
Da Dinictus
05-16-05, 08:30 AM The 'Merciful' modifier is, if I'm not mistaken, a +1 enhancement. Adds 1d6 damage to a weapon's strike, and all damage will be non-lethal. This ability may be turned off by a command word, and damage may be dealt as usual.

From Arms & Equipment. I'm sure it's in other books as well.
Krelios
05-16-05, 08:34 AM The 'Merciful' modifier is, if I'm not mistaken, a +1 enhancement. Adds 1d6 damage to a weapon's strike, and all damage will be non-lethal. This ability may be turned off by a command word, and damage may be dealt as usual.

From Arms & Equipment. I'm sure it's in other books as well.It sure is, the DMG 3.5 for example...Merciful

The weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of damage, and all damage it deals is nonlethal damage. On command, the weapon suppresses this ability until commanded to resume it. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the merciful effect upon their ammunition.

Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, cure light wounds; Price +1 bonus.
tivs
05-16-05, 04:38 PM no the difference between merciful and this is merciful makes the weapon you're using do subdual

my enhangement converts all damage on TARGET to real damage.. i shall call it bob for now

merciful rapier = 2d6 subdual every attack

bob sap = 1d? subdual OR 1d6 subdual + (all of Targets subdual damage as lethal damage)

although yea if you had it on all the time it would kinda turn a sap into a light mace yes

I'm really interested though in save vs massive damage and sneak attacks,

mr barbarian has 80 hp, he's taken 54 subdual my next hit does 1d6+54 damage and removes 54 subdual
Santrilla
05-16-05, 05:12 PM Let me see if I can provide a clearer example.

Enemy A has 20 hitpoints.
Tivs has a... let's call it a Bruising weapon for now, that ordinarily does 1d6 nonlethal damage.
Tivs hits the enemy three times, deals 10 subdual damage. Enemy A is now at 10 nonlethal damage but still at full hitpoints.
Tivs then says the magic word, and hits his enemy again. The weapon itself now does 1d6 lethal damage (call it 3), and converts all existing nonlethal damage into lethal damage.
So, the 10 nonlethal damage is converted into lethal damage, meaning that Enemy A has taken 13 points of damage; that's the 10 that was nonlethal, plus the 3 he's just dealt. Enemy A is now at 7 hitpoints.

It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how it would work in 'actual' terms. Perhaps the initial nonlethal damage bruises the target, and then the special ability causes a jolt of pain to run through these now sensitive areas?

As for the enchantment... well, gut instinct is that it's +2.
tivs
05-16-05, 10:52 PM YES! cool o thanks
+2 gotcha, i ran this by a friend and he offhanded the +2 as well so looks like i got consensus :)
Vharuck
05-16-05, 11:12 PM It does raise problems and questions with trolls and other regenerating creatures.
chocobochicken
05-16-05, 11:34 PM Out of morbid curiosity, what would be the point of such a weapon? I keep getting this picture of something truly evil in nature.

Good Cleric Bob wants to subdue the criminal so he can bring him in alive to the proper authorities, so Bob uses a +2 merciful heavy mace and whacks the target all over his body, leaving a few bruises but keeping him alive on the way to unconsciousness.

Afterwards, Evil Assassin Tim decides this criminal isn't worth the trouble or the reward money and that he no longer has the need to cling to his mortal soul. So he throws his +1 "bruising" dagger at the guy, and not only does the dagger stick, but immediately blood vessels start popping open all over the body where Good Cleric Bob had whacked him moments before, and the criminal falls face first into a pool of his own blood.

To me, it seems like there's something sick and twisted about this kind of weapon unless there's a specific purpose you haven't filled us in on. That's not to say it's unfeasible, but a can't see anyone without an evil alignment using it for a justifiable cause.
tivs
05-17-05, 01:22 AM lol i like your little story
actually the point of making this weapon was to emulate Stargate's Zat gun.
It has the ability to stun you in 1 hit, kill you in 2, and disintegrate you in 3.

but i wanted something a little more reasonable in dnd so this is what i came up with...
fractal
05-17-05, 04:35 AM To me, it seems like there's something sick and twisted about this kind of weapon unless there's a specific purpose you haven't filled us in on. That's not to say it's unfeasible, but a can't see anyone without an evil alignment using it for a justifiable cause.
Could be a good way to force saves vs massive damage.

Regarding regenerating creatures - presumably the new, lethal damage, would also be converted to non-lethal, unless the weapon were of the appropriate type?
Santrilla
05-17-05, 11:09 AM Could be a good way to force saves vs massive damage.

Regarding regenerating creatures - presumably the new, lethal damage, would also be converted to non-lethal, unless the weapon were of the appropriate type?

That's a very good point, actually.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tivs 05-11-05, 11:15 PM	What would +X be on this enhancement for this magical weapon enhancement. Converta all subdual damage to lethal damage. (literally removes all subdual damage then adds that amount of damage as a bonus to the damage you are doing) Wielder may suppress this ability at will. +1?
tarkin 05-12-05, 10:50 AM	Here is the important question you need to answer: What does the weapon due against a creature with regeneration? Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate. Would your weapon do lethal damage to a regenerating creature? If so, +1 is too weak. Then it would be +2 or even +3.
chocobochicken 05-12-05, 10:56 AM	If it's just an ability to turn nonlethal damage to lethal damage while ignoring the usual -4 penalty, then I'd say it's good as a +1.
tivs 05-12-05, 01:37 PM	vs a creature with regen like a troll i don't remember if ppl with regen are immune to subdual dmg, if they are then this weapon enhancement is useless. If it's just an ability to turn nonlethal damage to lethal damage while ignoring the usual -4 penalty, then I'd say it's good as a +1. no it doesn't turn nonlethal dmg to lethal on this attack, it turns ALL of the nonlethal dmg on the target into lethal. for instance barbarian named bob with 300 hp i have a sap with this enhancement on it i hit bob 20 times for 30 subdual dmg. now i figure bob has enough subdual dmg stacked up so i say ok weapon enhancement, do your trick. so on my 21st hit i do 2 subdual dmg+weapons effect, the enhancement removes 30 subdual from bob, and adds 30 dmg to your attack. so on your 21st attack you just hit bob for 30dmg+2 subdual
tivs 05-16-05, 07:02 AM	anyone?
Bluebrush 05-16-05, 08:04 AM	So... Basically you need a way to turn a sap into a light mace?
Da Dinictus 05-16-05, 08:30 AM	The 'Merciful' modifier is, if I'm not mistaken, a +1 enhancement. Adds 1d6 damage to a weapon's strike, and all damage will be non-lethal. This ability may be turned off by a command word, and damage may be dealt as usual. From Arms & Equipment. I'm sure it's in other books as well.
Krelios 05-16-05, 08:34 AM	The 'Merciful' modifier is, if I'm not mistaken, a +1 enhancement. Adds 1d6 damage to a weapon's strike, and all damage will be non-lethal. This ability may be turned off by a command word, and damage may be dealt as usual. From Arms & Equipment. I'm sure it's in other books as well.It sure is, the DMG 3.5 for example...Merciful The weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of damage, and all damage it deals is nonlethal damage. On command, the weapon suppresses this ability until commanded to resume it. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the merciful effect upon their ammunition. Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, cure light wounds; Price +1 bonus.
tivs 05-16-05, 04:38 PM	no the difference between merciful and this is merciful makes the weapon you're using do subdual my enhangement converts all damage on TARGET to real damage.. i shall call it bob for now merciful rapier = 2d6 subdual every attack bob sap = 1d? subdual OR 1d6 subdual + (all of Targets subdual damage as lethal damage) although yea if you had it on all the time it would kinda turn a sap into a light mace yes I'm really interested though in save vs massive damage and sneak attacks, mr barbarian has 80 hp, he's taken 54 subdual my next hit does 1d6+54 damage and removes 54 subdual
Santrilla 05-16-05, 05:12 PM	Let me see if I can provide a clearer example. Enemy A has 20 hitpoints. Tivs has a... let's call it a Bruising weapon for now, that ordinarily does 1d6 nonlethal damage. Tivs hits the enemy three times, deals 10 subdual damage. Enemy A is now at 10 nonlethal damage but still at full hitpoints. Tivs then says the magic word, and hits his enemy again. The weapon itself now does 1d6 lethal damage (call it 3), and converts all existing nonlethal damage into lethal damage. So, the 10 nonlethal damage is converted into lethal damage, meaning that Enemy A has taken 13 points of damage; that's the 10 that was nonlethal, plus the 3 he's just dealt. Enemy A is now at 7 hitpoints. It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how it would work in 'actual' terms. Perhaps the initial nonlethal damage bruises the target, and then the special ability causes a jolt of pain to run through these now sensitive areas? As for the enchantment... well, gut instinct is that it's +2.
tivs 05-16-05, 10:52 PM	YES! cool o thanks +2 gotcha, i ran this by a friend and he offhanded the +2 as well so looks like i got consensus :)
Vharuck 05-16-05, 11:12 PM	It does raise problems and questions with trolls and other regenerating creatures.
chocobochicken 05-16-05, 11:34 PM	Out of morbid curiosity, what would be the point of such a weapon? I keep getting this picture of something truly evil in nature. Good Cleric Bob wants to subdue the criminal so he can bring him in alive to the proper authorities, so Bob uses a +2 merciful heavy mace and whacks the target all over his body, leaving a few bruises but keeping him alive on the way to unconsciousness. Afterwards, Evil Assassin Tim decides this criminal isn't worth the trouble or the reward money and that he no longer has the need to cling to his mortal soul. So he throws his +1 "bruising" dagger at the guy, and not only does the dagger stick, but immediately blood vessels start popping open all over the body where Good Cleric Bob had whacked him moments before, and the criminal falls face first into a pool of his own blood. To me, it seems like there's something sick and twisted about this kind of weapon unless there's a specific purpose you haven't filled us in on. That's not to say it's unfeasible, but a can't see anyone without an evil alignment using it for a justifiable cause.
tivs 05-17-05, 01:22 AM	lol i like your little story actually the point of making this weapon was to emulate Stargate's Zat gun. It has the ability to stun you in 1 hit, kill you in 2, and disintegrate you in 3. but i wanted something a little more reasonable in dnd so this is what i came up with...
fractal 05-17-05, 04:35 AM	To me, it seems like there's something sick and twisted about this kind of weapon unless there's a specific purpose you haven't filled us in on. That's not to say it's unfeasible, but a can't see anyone without an evil alignment using it for a justifiable cause. Could be a good way to force saves vs massive damage. Regarding regenerating creatures - presumably the new, lethal damage, would also be converted to non-lethal, unless the weapon were of the appropriate type?
Santrilla 05-17-05, 11:09 AM	Could be a good way to force saves vs massive damage. Regarding regenerating creatures - presumably the new, lethal damage, would also be converted to non-lethal, unless the weapon were of the appropriate type? That's a very good point, actually.