A Balanced Approach to Martial Arts and Weapon Styles [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Balanced Approach to Martial Arts and Weapon Styles [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sir Elton
01-09-07, 10:55 AM Okay, I know Heroes of Battle has martial arts, but last Sunday, I had a thought come to me that can solve the balance problem with martial arts and weapon styles and FEATS.

As you know, you only get limited feats through out your adventuring career to 20th level (Epic Level doesn't exist), however in real life a Martial Artist trained in the Shaolin martial arts knows at least five (count them, 1 - 2- 3 - 4 - 5) different martial art styles: Tiger, Crane, Leopard, Snake, Dragon. During the Old Republic in Star Wars, Jedi knew at least seven different Light saber arts: Shii-Cho, Makashi, Soresu, Ataru, Shien/Djem So, Niman/Jar'kai, and Juyo/Vaapad. So, how does one D&D martial artist, who are lower than 20th level, know a variety of Martial Arts yet have only 7 feats to work with, and if one is a fighter, upwards to over 10? And how can you do Martial Arts if Blood and Fists: Modern Martial Arts[ is summarily rejected by the Wizards Community?

The answer is: Stop treating Martial Arts as feats and treat them as skills. That way, a monk can be trained (or currently be training) in the Tiger, Crane, Leopard, Snake, and Dragon styles and still be 7th level.

My idea dispenses with BAB as a primary attack bonus for formally trained Martial Artists , useable only for country bumpkins who aren't formally trained in unarmed martial arts or weapon martial arts. Unarmed and Weapon Martial Arts become Combat Skills you can take. When a fighter attacks, he can declare if he is using his BAB or one of his combat skills.

It's the best solution. You can take it or leave it, or go buy Blood and Fists: Modern Martial Arts; because restricting martial arts to feat trees isn't going to be feat slot efficient.
tarkin
01-09-07, 01:36 PM Why treate them as skills?

Frankly the mythology of martial arts is best represented by Prestige Classes.

You don't go to the old teacher and pick up just a single attack form.

Instead you go to him and become his student, he becomes your master, trains you everything you know.

Prestige Class is the way to go, not skills, not feats.

Now, in real life, most people study under many Sensei, but in the myths, you always hunt down the super-teacher and he is your true master.
Neutronium_Dragon
01-09-07, 01:44 PM I seem to be saying this a lot, but try the Tome of Battle if you're looking for a "many different disciplines" approach - not only do the various maneuver disciplines fit that, they also make use of skills (but not simply in an, "I attack with my skill bonus instead of BAB," fashion).
Ranger REG
01-09-07, 06:01 PM Okay, I know Heroes of Battle has martial arts, but last Sunday, I had a thought come to me that can solve the balance problem with martial arts and weapon styles and FEATS.

As you know, you only get limited feats through out your adventuring career to 20th level (Epic Level doesn't exist), however in real life a Martial Artist trained in the Shaolin martial arts knows at least five (count them, 1 - 2- 3 - 4 - 5) different martial art styles: Tiger, Crane, Leopard, Snake, Dragon. During the Old Republic in Star Wars, Jedi knew at least seven different Light saber arts: Shii-Cho, Makashi, Soresu, Ataru, Shien/Djem So, Niman/Jar'kai, and Juyo/Vaapad. So, how does one D&D martial artist, who are lower than 20th level, know a variety of Martial Arts yet have only 7 feats to work with, and if one is a fighter, upwards to over 10? And how can you do Martial Arts if Blood and Fists: Modern Martial Arts[ is summarily rejected by the Wizards Community?
Who in their minimally sane mind would reject Blood and Fist ... with the exception of D&D and Star Wars d20 label fans?

:thinks: Come to think of it, I know some (not few nor handful) of d20 Modern label fans would reject a third-party product like this.

:nonono:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sir Elton 01-09-07, 10:55 AM	Okay, I know Heroes of Battle has martial arts, but last Sunday, I had a thought come to me that can solve the balance problem with martial arts and weapon styles and FEATS. As you know, you only get limited feats through out your adventuring career to 20th level (Epic Level doesn't exist), however in real life a Martial Artist trained in the Shaolin martial arts knows at least five (count them, 1 - 2- 3 - 4 - 5) different martial art styles: Tiger, Crane, Leopard, Snake, Dragon. During the Old Republic in Star Wars, Jedi knew at least seven different Light saber arts: Shii-Cho, Makashi, Soresu, Ataru, Shien/Djem So, Niman/Jar'kai, and Juyo/Vaapad. So, how does one D&D martial artist, who are lower than 20th level, know a variety of Martial Arts yet have only 7 feats to work with, and if one is a fighter, upwards to over 10? And how can you do Martial Arts if Blood and Fists: Modern Martial Arts[ is summarily rejected by the Wizards Community? The answer is: Stop treating Martial Arts as feats and treat them as skills. That way, a monk can be trained (or currently be training) in the Tiger, Crane, Leopard, Snake, and Dragon styles and still be 7th level. My idea dispenses with BAB as a primary attack bonus for formally trained Martial Artists , useable only for country bumpkins who aren't formally trained in unarmed martial arts or weapon martial arts. Unarmed and Weapon Martial Arts become Combat Skills you can take. When a fighter attacks, he can declare if he is using his BAB or one of his combat skills. It's the best solution. You can take it or leave it, or go buy Blood and Fists: Modern Martial Arts; because restricting martial arts to feat trees isn't going to be feat slot efficient.
tarkin 01-09-07, 01:36 PM	Why treate them as skills? Frankly the mythology of martial arts is best represented by Prestige Classes. You don't go to the old teacher and pick up just a single attack form. Instead you go to him and become his student, he becomes your master, trains you everything you know. Prestige Class is the way to go, not skills, not feats. Now, in real life, most people study under many Sensei, but in the myths, you always hunt down the super-teacher and he is your true master.
Neutronium_Dragon 01-09-07, 01:44 PM	I seem to be saying this a lot, but try the Tome of Battle if you're looking for a "many different disciplines" approach - not only do the various maneuver disciplines fit that, they also make use of skills (but not simply in an, "I attack with my skill bonus instead of BAB," fashion).
Ranger REG 01-09-07, 06:01 PM	Okay, I know Heroes of Battle has martial arts, but last Sunday, I had a thought come to me that can solve the balance problem with martial arts and weapon styles and FEATS. As you know, you only get limited feats through out your adventuring career to 20th level (Epic Level doesn't exist), however in real life a Martial Artist trained in the Shaolin martial arts knows at least five (count them, 1 - 2- 3 - 4 - 5) different martial art styles: Tiger, Crane, Leopard, Snake, Dragon. During the Old Republic in Star Wars, Jedi knew at least seven different Light saber arts: Shii-Cho, Makashi, Soresu, Ataru, Shien/Djem So, Niman/Jar'kai, and Juyo/Vaapad. So, how does one D&D martial artist, who are lower than 20th level, know a variety of Martial Arts yet have only 7 feats to work with, and if one is a fighter, upwards to over 10? And how can you do Martial Arts if Blood and Fists: Modern Martial Arts[ is summarily rejected by the Wizards Community? Who in their minimally sane mind would reject Blood and Fist ... with the exception of D&D and Star Wars d20 label fans? :thinks: Come to think of it, I know some (not few nor handful) of d20 Modern label fans would reject a third-party product like this. :nonono: