Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darkmethods 04-20-06, 09:28 PM	Hey people I just want to ask a couple of questions one things I've been wondering about. Thanks in advance! Martial vs. Simple--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Should martial weapons do more damage than simple weapons? For some reason I feel that simple weapons should not be able to achieve the same stats as martial weapons. This of course could stem from the fact that almost all classes start with the ability to use all or at least some of the simple weapons while the martial weapons tend to be reserved for melee classes. It kind of makes you wonder if there should be a simple weapon family at all. What are your opinions on this? Average Damage formula's------------------------------------------------------------------- How do you find a weapons average damage with crit multiplier and crit chance figured in? is it something like this? x = number of die y = die size a = critical threat range b = critical multiplier AWDn = Average Weapon Damage (no crit) Average Weapon Damage (no crit, xdy) = x(1 + 2 + ... y)/y Average Weapon Damage (crit) = ((AWDn(20-a+1)*b)+((a-2)*AWDn))/19 NOTE: when rolling a d20 a one is a critical miss so it always misses no matter what. This brings the range down from 20 possible combinations to 19. At least I think thats right... Do I have the formulas right?
Nom 04-20-06, 11:14 PM	Should martial weapons do more damage than simple weapons? For some reason I feel that simple weapons should not be able to achieve the same stats as martial weapons.Well, they can't, which seems to agree with your feelings on the matter. For example, the better 1-handed simple weapons (mace, morning star) to 1d8/x2. Equivalent martial weapons (axe, warhammer, sword) do 1d8/x3 or 1d8 19-20/x2. How do you find a weapons average damage with crit multiplier and crit chance figured in?Assuming the roll required to-hit is not within the crit range, the expected damage is: Ed = (21 - H)/20 * D * (1 + crit range * (crit mult - 1) / 20) Ed = expected damage H = Number required to-hit D = Mean damage on hit Examples: If you need 15 or better to hit, then H = 15 and the (21 - H)/20 term becomes 30%. If you are using a +1 longsword and have +2 Str, then D is 4.5 (mean of 1d8) + 1 + 2 = 7.5. A longsword has a 19-20/x2 crit range. This works out as 2 * 1 / 20 = +10% damage. As long as the to-hit number is outside the crit range, crits always increase mean damage by 5% * (threat range) * (crit mult -1). You just need to remember that x2 is really +1x and it all works cleanly. Mace: +5% Longsword, battleaxe: +10% Rapier, pick: +15%
Darkmethods 04-22-06, 01:42 AM	Well, they can't, which seems to agree with your feelings on the matter. For example, the better 1-handed simple weapons (mace, morning star) to 1d8/x2. Equivalent martial weapons (axe, warhammer, sword) do 1d8/x3 or 1d8 19-20/x2. Assuming the roll required to-hit is not within the crit range, the expected damage is: Ed = (21 - H)/20 * D * (1 + crit range * (crit mult - 1) / 20) Ed = expected damage H = Number required to-hit D = Mean damage on hit Examples: If you need 15 or better to hit, then H = 15 and the (21 - H)/20 term becomes 30%. If you are using a +1 longsword and have +2 Str, then D is 4.5 (mean of 1d8) + 1 + 2 = 7.5. A longsword has a 19-20/x2 crit range. This works out as 2 * 1 / 20 = +10% damage. As long as the to-hit number is outside the crit range, crits always increase mean damage by 5% * (threat range) * (crit mult -1). You just need to remember that x2 is really +1x and it all works cleanly. Mace: +5% Longsword, battleaxe: +10% Rapier, pick: +15% I think I get what your saying but just to be sure. Does it go like this? Expected Damage (ED) Finding to-hit: AC = enemy AC attack bonus (AB) = BAB + str + enh + feat - penalties To Hit (TH) = (21 - (AC - AB))/20 Finding mean weapon damage: x = how many die y = die size str_mod = strength modifier (.5, 1, or 1.5) fav = favored enemy bonus damage enh = enhancement bonuses pa = (Power attack * modifier (can be 1x or 2x depending on weapon size)) die_mean = (x(1 + 2 + ... y))/y Damage (D) = die_mean+(str*str_mod)+feats+enh+fav+pa Finding critical modifier: threat = 1 + (-1 * (a-20)) multi = critical multiplier Critical modifier (CM) = (threat * (multi - 1))/20 Finding Total - with no burst or sneak attack damage (TNB): TNB = (TH * D * CM) + D Burst and Sneak attack damage: Burst = bonus damage die from enhancements (mean) Bnk = sneak attack bonus damage die (mean) Expected Damage (ED) = TNB + Burst + Sneak Is there anything I am forgetting? So if I take a normal longsword (1d8 2x 19-20) and use it with a level 2 cleric with a 0 strength mod against an enemy with an AC of 10. The cleric would get 2.97 estimated damage per hit? Thanks for the help by the way.
Nom 04-22-06, 08:55 PM	So if I take a normal longsword (1d8 2x 19-20) and use it with a level 2 cleric with a 0 strength mod against an enemy with an AC of 10. The cleric would get 2.97 estimated damage per hit?Chance of hitting is 60%: +1 attack (+1 BAB) vs AC 10 requires 9 or better. 8 or lower is a miss (40%) so chance of a hit is 60%. Mean damage given a normal hit is 4.5 (mean value of d8, no bonuses). Multiplying together and allowing for crits is 60% * 4.5 * 1.1 (+10% for 19-20/x2 crit) = 2.97 mean damage per attack (not per-hit, which is a different value).
Darkmethods 04-23-06, 07:42 PM	Thanks for clearing that up Nom