A couple questions about cover rules? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A couple questions about cover rules? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Archangel
12-14-04, 04:35 AM Hi all, I am ashamed to say that I am an experienced DM that didn't fully grasp cover rules and since in my last session wasn't sure how it worked when I needed it I now want to finelly clarify some workings of cover:
1. I know about the static (like a rock or a tree) cover that gives bonus only to the closer combatant, but what about moving cover (like another combatant), who gets the cover then?
This is mostly important to me for ranged combat since I have 2 archer characters in my game.
2. Also this situation came up, a goblin behind another goblin was attacking a party member 20 feet away. Also that party member had another party member in front of him. Is that double cover or what? If the attacker missed by 4 who gets possibly hit. Do I make a new roll to see if the cover got hit? Can the creature providing cover choose to not give cover? Are there any penalties for that?
Thanks in advance!
Nom
12-14-04, 07:06 AM 1. I know about the static (like a rock or a tree) cover that gives bonus only to the closer combatant, but what about moving cover (like another combatant), who gets the cover then?Mostly taken from pages 150-152 of PH.

Hard, low obstacles (eg low walls, tables) provide cover for the defender if they are within 30 ft., and if the attacker is not closer to the object than the defender is. Note that equidistant still grants cover.

Full height objects provide cover if a line from the attacker's chosen corner crosses to each corner of the defender's square a square or border that blocks line of sight (running along the edge is fine). This applies to both hard cover (solid objects) and soft cover (typically creatures).

Total cover occurs when the attacker has no line of effect to any corner of the target's square.

Hard cover also applies to effects that grant reflex save. If you have partial hard cover, you gain a +2 reflex save. If you have total hard cover, you cannot be affected. Note that spreads can turn corners and thus negate cover.

Against a "big" creature, pick which 5 ft. square is the target square and evaluate cover accordingly. Likewise, "big" creatures can choose any of their squares when considering cover.

Pg 152 allows for DM judgement to increase or reduce the cover bonus in unusual situations (typically "almost but not quite" total cover).
This is mostly important to me for ranged combat since I have 2 archer characters in my game.
2. Also this situation came up, a goblin behind another goblin was attacking a party member 20 feet away. Also that party member had another party member in front of him. Is that double cover or what? If the attacker missed by 4 who gets possibly hit. Do I make a new roll to see if the cover got hit? Can the creature providing cover choose to not give cover? Are there any penalties for that?By default, creatures count as soft cover. No matter how much cover you have, if a line of effect exists you have less than total cover and get +4 AC. Creatures never provide hard cover, and thus never completely block line of effect nor provide a Reflex save bonus.

The default D&D rules have no provision for accidentally hitting cover. A miss is a clean miss. There are optional rules in the DMG, but they are unnecessarily complicated and don't model the situation very well anyway.

Normally, the rules don't distinguish between 'low' and 'full size' creatures when determining cover. A good house rule is to treat creatures 1 size class smaller (eg Small for Medium creatures) as 'soft low walls' when determining cover. Thus, an elf can fire over a halfling's head without suffering cover, but the halfling will provide the elf with cover. If the opponent closes to next to the halfing, then the 'closer' rule comes into play and both opponent and elf gain cover.

Finally, there are two penalties that can apply when shooting in the vicinity of teammates. The first is cover, which applies if a line of sight is not completely clean. The second is the 'firing into melee' (-4) modifier, which applies whenever an ally is within 10 feet of your target and either threatens or is threatened by your target. It's entirely possible for both, one, the other, or neither to apply in a given situation.

Almost forgot - reach (melee) weapons use the ranged weapon 'cover' rules, but never suffer the 'firing into melee' modifier.
kjenks
12-14-04, 08:03 AM Nom's summary was excellent. When DMing a PC archer, there are a few rules of thumb to follow.

Most of your small-to-medium monsters will be "in combat" most of the time. This won't have a big effect if the archer has Precise Shot, but (amazingly enough) not all archers do.

Most creatures in melee will choose a square so they have soft cover from the archer(s). Ask the archer which corner of his square(s) he's shooting from. Look at the opponents corners and draw lines. If a line passes through an obstacle or creature, the opponent has cover.

The best melee tactic against an archer is often to charge him and disarm or sunder that pesky bow. Make sure you know about the DMG errata which allows any weapon to sunder any other; magic bows can be sundered by any weapon, not just by magic weapons.

Make sure your PC archers keep track of their arrows on long dungeon delves or extended wilderness trips, even if it's just tally marks on the battlemat representing arrows that will be replaced later. You'll probably want to limit the number of mundane quivers the PC carries (which usually contain normal, silver, cold iron, and adamantine arrows). If the archer gets turned upside-down or dumped into water, there may be arrows everywhere. A Quiver of Elhonna can help organize things a bit.

Make a habit of asking the archer(s) what's in their hands. You'll be surprised what they think they can do while wielding a two-handed weapon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Archangel 12-14-04, 04:35 AM	Hi all, I am ashamed to say that I am an experienced DM that didn't fully grasp cover rules and since in my last session wasn't sure how it worked when I needed it I now want to finelly clarify some workings of cover: 1. I know about the static (like a rock or a tree) cover that gives bonus only to the closer combatant, but what about moving cover (like another combatant), who gets the cover then? This is mostly important to me for ranged combat since I have 2 archer characters in my game. 2. Also this situation came up, a goblin behind another goblin was attacking a party member 20 feet away. Also that party member had another party member in front of him. Is that double cover or what? If the attacker missed by 4 who gets possibly hit. Do I make a new roll to see if the cover got hit? Can the creature providing cover choose to not give cover? Are there any penalties for that? Thanks in advance!
Nom 12-14-04, 07:06 AM	1. I know about the static (like a rock or a tree) cover that gives bonus only to the closer combatant, but what about moving cover (like another combatant), who gets the cover then?Mostly taken from pages 150-152 of PH. Hard, low obstacles (eg low walls, tables) provide cover for the defender if they are within 30 ft., and if the attacker is not closer to the object than the defender is. Note that equidistant still grants cover. Full height objects provide cover if a line from the attacker's chosen corner crosses to each corner of the defender's square a square or border that blocks line of sight (running along the edge is fine). This applies to both hard cover (solid objects) and soft cover (typically creatures). Total cover occurs when the attacker has no line of effect to any corner of the target's square. Hard cover also applies to effects that grant reflex save. If you have partial hard cover, you gain a +2 reflex save. If you have total hard cover, you cannot be affected. Note that spreads can turn corners and thus negate cover. Against a "big" creature, pick which 5 ft. square is the target square and evaluate cover accordingly. Likewise, "big" creatures can choose any of their squares when considering cover. Pg 152 allows for DM judgement to increase or reduce the cover bonus in unusual situations (typically "almost but not quite" total cover). This is mostly important to me for ranged combat since I have 2 archer characters in my game. 2. Also this situation came up, a goblin behind another goblin was attacking a party member 20 feet away. Also that party member had another party member in front of him. Is that double cover or what? If the attacker missed by 4 who gets possibly hit. Do I make a new roll to see if the cover got hit? Can the creature providing cover choose to not give cover? Are there any penalties for that?By default, creatures count as soft cover. No matter how much cover you have, if a line of effect exists you have less than total cover and get +4 AC. Creatures never provide hard cover, and thus never completely block line of effect nor provide a Reflex save bonus. The default D&D rules have no provision for accidentally hitting cover. A miss is a clean miss. There are optional rules in the DMG, but they are unnecessarily complicated and don't model the situation very well anyway. Normally, the rules don't distinguish between 'low' and 'full size' creatures when determining cover. A good house rule is to treat creatures 1 size class smaller (eg Small for Medium creatures) as 'soft low walls' when determining cover. Thus, an elf can fire over a halfling's head without suffering cover, but the halfling will provide the elf with cover. If the opponent closes to next to the halfing, then the 'closer' rule comes into play and both opponent and elf gain cover. Finally, there are two penalties that can apply when shooting in the vicinity of teammates. The first is cover, which applies if a line of sight is not completely clean. The second is the 'firing into melee' (-4) modifier, which applies whenever an ally is within 10 feet of your target and either threatens or is threatened by your target. It's entirely possible for both, one, the other, or neither to apply in a given situation. Almost forgot - reach (melee) weapons use the ranged weapon 'cover' rules, but never suffer the 'firing into melee' modifier.
kjenks 12-14-04, 08:03 AM	Nom's summary was excellent. When DMing a PC archer, there are a few rules of thumb to follow. Most of your small-to-medium monsters will be "in combat" most of the time. This won't have a big effect if the archer has Precise Shot, but (amazingly enough) not all archers do. Most creatures in melee will choose a square so they have soft cover from the archer(s). Ask the archer which corner of his square(s) he's shooting from. Look at the opponents corners and draw lines. If a line passes through an obstacle or creature, the opponent has cover. The best melee tactic against an archer is often to charge him and disarm or sunder that pesky bow. Make sure you know about the DMG errata which allows any weapon to sunder any other; magic bows can be sundered by any weapon, not just by magic weapons. Make sure your PC archers keep track of their arrows on long dungeon delves or extended wilderness trips, even if it's just tally marks on the battlemat representing arrows that will be replaced later. You'll probably want to limit the number of mundane quivers the PC carries (which usually contain normal, silver, cold iron, and adamantine arrows). If the archer gets turned upside-down or dumped into water, there may be arrows everywhere. A Quiver of Elhonna can help organize things a bit. Make a habit of asking the archer(s) what's in their hands. You'll be surprised what they think they can do while wielding a two-handed weapon.