A few mounted combat questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

A few mounted combat questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Javoc
07-31-06, 02:06 AM When making a ride-by-attack, can your mount make an attack as well? And if so, can a mount use pounce during a ride-by-attack? Specifically, I'm looking at a mounted fighter w/ a griffon, or something to that effect.

Thanks in advance.
tarkin
07-31-06, 11:11 AM Yes. Ride by says "when you AND your mount use the charge action". So the mount is charging and can attack.

Note this that you make your Fight with Warhorse Ride roll, DC 10.

And your mount must of course come within reach of the creature. If you are using a Lance, that might mean he attacks after you do.
mvincent
07-31-06, 01:37 PM When making a ride-by-attack, can your mount make an attack as well? And if so, can a mount use pounce during a ride-by-attack? Specifically, I'm looking at a mounted fighter w/ a griffon, or something to that effect.From the 3.5 FAQ:
"If the example rider wants to make attacks while flying by
foes, she needs the Ride-By Attack feat and needs to charge
(and fly) in a straight line (see the next question). For the
mount to attack in the same situation, it would need the Flyby
Attack feat. The rider’s Ride-By Attack feat won’t help the
mount attack, and the mount’s Flyby Attack feat does not help
the rider attack."
mvincent
07-31-06, 01:38 PM Yes. Ride by says "when you AND your mount use the charge action". So the mount is charging and can attack.This appears to be incorrect.
Echo_that_Pains
07-31-06, 01:59 PM From the 3.5 FAQ:
"If the example rider wants to make attacks while flying by
foes, she needs the Ride-By Attack feat and needs to charge
(and fly) in a straight line (see the next question). For the
mount to attack in the same situation, it would need the Flyby
Attack feat. The rider’s Ride-By Attack feat won’t help the
mount attack, and the mount’s Flyby Attack feat does not help
the rider attack."
What book is Flyby Attack feat in? I was under the impression that all mounted combat feats were located in the PHB. There might be some in Complete Warrior but i have not had time to look through that book yet. What books are any and all mounted combat feats (melee, ranged, casting) in? I would like to look more into this. Mounted combat has always facinated me in DnD.
kjenks
07-31-06, 02:40 PM Flyby Attack (FBA) is in the Monster Manual.

If your campaign uses the FAQ, then no, your mount can't attack on a RBA unless the mount also has FBA.
SageBahamut
07-31-06, 06:15 PM How would all of this work together...

Power Attack
Leap Attack
Mounted Combat
Spirited Charge
Ride-By Attack

Rhino-Hide Armor (the 3.0 version)

Can you leap attack while riding if you have leap attack and make your mount jump, or must your mount have it in order for you to use yours?

Also, if your mount has an ability that lets you charge for double damage, does this stack with Spirited Charge and the damage-doubling ability of the old rhino-hide armor, or does that effect only apply to your mount's attacks and not yours? (I'm looking specifically at the triceratops on this one, but I think Rhinos have it too.)
kjenks
08-01-06, 09:07 AM How would all of this work together...

Power Attack
Leap Attack
Mounted Combat
Spirited Charge
Ride-By Attack

Rhino-Hide Armor (the 3.0 version)

Can you leap attack while riding if you have leap attack and make your mount jump, or must your mount have it in order for you to use yours?

Leap Attack does not appear to work for a mounted charge since you must do the jumping. Your DM may allow it, but I wouldn't count on it.

Rhino Hide armor should work, but remember that it grants bonus dice of damage, and by the rules for D&D "multiplication" bonus damage dice are not multiplied on your Spirited Charge.

Also, if your mount has an ability that lets you charge for double damage, does this stack with Spirited Charge and the damage-doubling ability of the old rhino-hide armor, or does that effect only apply to your mount's attacks and not yours? (I'm looking specifically at the triceratops on this one, but I think Rhinos have it too.)

That ability would have no effect on your attacks. And if your campaign follows the FAQ, your mount can't attack while you do a RBA unless your mount has the Flyby Attack feat.

A rhino does not actually charge for double damage. It has a Powerful Charge ability that is pretty close to double damage, but it's subtly different. Look how much damage a Powerful Charge from a rhino does on a critical hit. Since the Powerful Charge ability does not say the magic words "double damage" you multiply the whole thing; you don't need to follow the "double a double is a triple" rule.
SageBahamut
08-01-06, 12:48 PM kjenks,

thanks, but you missed a couple of things I mentioned. Firstly I'm using the old 3.0 rhino-hide armor, which did double damage when charging. also, i'm using a triceratops as my example, which does charge for double damage. Also I'm throwing in the Paladin spell Rhino's Rush. I did a version that included Lion's Charge as well, but it becomes problematic to keep getting that cast. Rings of spell storing are so expensive...

I'm picturing a Fighter build (or better yet, a paladin with the smite-while-charging variant) riding with such a mount and a lance, spurring his mount into a jump, and piledriving his victim. I have the character sheet for this, and if it works like I think it does, it's the most game-breaking thing I've ever seen.
Dragonteuthis
08-01-06, 01:22 PM it's the most game-breaking thing I've ever seen.

Given that it's at least half composed of things you've made up, that should hardly come as surprising.
SageBahamut
08-01-06, 05:42 PM I'm wondering which part you believe I've made up. The creature "Triceratops", published in the Monster Manual? The many feats published in the Player's Handbook, Complete Adventurer, etc. etc.? Rhino Hide Armor, published in at least the last two versions of the Dungeon Master's Guide?

If you'd like to give me credit for "making up" these published sources, I'll gladly take the royalties that go with authorship, but somehow I think Mr.'s Cook, Tweet, and Williams (et. al.) would have an objection.

Otherwise, kindly answer the question asked in its own context, and keep your ignorance to yourself.
Dragonteuthis
08-01-06, 06:32 PM I did a version that included Lion's Charge as well,

Sorry, I assume you made a spell that combined the Rhino's Rush and Lion's charge. I see I could have jumped to a conclusion. My apologies.
SageBahamut
08-02-06, 01:39 AM OOhhh... I see what you mean.

In that case, Dragonteuthis, I apologise back. I thought you were attacking my feat- and item-selection.

Just to clarify, no, I didn't make a spell for that, I meant using the two spells together. They do work deliciously well together, on the rare occasion any character can benefit from both.
_sl0t_
08-02-06, 02:02 AM I think you are mixing up everythng because it's all in one action.
There are two different attacks going on, one made by you, with your AB, your feats and your weapon and another made by your mount with her AB, feats and natural weapons.
Spirited Charge doubles the damage you do on a mounted charge.
The double damage thing from Powerful Charge should only affect the mount's damage, so both should not stack and be applied to each attack separetely.

About Leap attack, that's a tough decision...
If your mounting is Leap attacking, then the mount would need PA and LA and increase her damage only.
If you're the one leap attacking, then you use your PA and LA to increase your damage only.
You could say you're using your mount's leg power and jump to increase your damage. That would require a Ride or mount's Jump check CD 15 and maybe another check of Jump after for the distance covered?

I don't know. Looks reasonable, but it just doesn't feel right.

Edit:
Also, can any mount attack on a regular charge?
Or is any feat needed, like FBA for flying mounts?
_sl0t_
08-02-06, 03:02 AM by the way, where are these spells from and what do they do?
Lion's charge and Rhino's rush.
SageBahamut
08-02-06, 03:14 AM slot - The only attack I'm concerned with for this example is my own Leap Attack, made while riding. Making my mount attack as well would be adding insult to injury at this point.

The spells Rhino's Rush and (I believe) Lion's Charge (or Lion's Leap or something Lionish) are both in the Spell Compendium, but not sure where they were from before that.

As for what you said about using your mount's leg power to fuel your leap attack... yeah that's pretty much exactly what I'm doing. But that being the case, wouldn't Powerful Charge count, since the mount is charging powerfully (providing me leg power) but I'm doing the attacking (replacing his horn with my lance)? I see your reasoning, too, though...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Javoc 07-31-06, 02:06 AM	When making a ride-by-attack, can your mount make an attack as well? And if so, can a mount use pounce during a ride-by-attack? Specifically, I'm looking at a mounted fighter w/ a griffon, or something to that effect. Thanks in advance.
tarkin 07-31-06, 11:11 AM	Yes. Ride by says "when you AND your mount use the charge action". So the mount is charging and can attack. Note this that you make your Fight with Warhorse Ride roll, DC 10. And your mount must of course come within reach of the creature. If you are using a Lance, that might mean he attacks after you do.
mvincent 07-31-06, 01:37 PM	When making a ride-by-attack, can your mount make an attack as well? And if so, can a mount use pounce during a ride-by-attack? Specifically, I'm looking at a mounted fighter w/ a griffon, or something to that effect.From the 3.5 FAQ: "If the example rider wants to make attacks while flying by foes, she needs the Ride-By Attack feat and needs to charge (and fly) in a straight line (see the next question). For the mount to attack in the same situation, it would need the Flyby Attack feat. The rider’s Ride-By Attack feat won’t help the mount attack, and the mount’s Flyby Attack feat does not help the rider attack."
mvincent 07-31-06, 01:38 PM	Yes. Ride by says "when you AND your mount use the charge action". So the mount is charging and can attack.This appears to be incorrect.
Echo_that_Pains 07-31-06, 01:59 PM	From the 3.5 FAQ: "If the example rider wants to make attacks while flying by foes, she needs the Ride-By Attack feat and needs to charge (and fly) in a straight line (see the next question). For the mount to attack in the same situation, it would need the Flyby Attack feat. The rider’s Ride-By Attack feat won’t help the mount attack, and the mount’s Flyby Attack feat does not help the rider attack." What book is Flyby Attack feat in? I was under the impression that all mounted combat feats were located in the PHB. There might be some in Complete Warrior but i have not had time to look through that book yet. What books are any and all mounted combat feats (melee, ranged, casting) in? I would like to look more into this. Mounted combat has always facinated me in DnD.
kjenks 07-31-06, 02:40 PM	Flyby Attack (FBA) is in the Monster Manual. If your campaign uses the FAQ, then no, your mount can't attack on a RBA unless the mount also has FBA.
SageBahamut 07-31-06, 06:15 PM	How would all of this work together... Power Attack Leap Attack Mounted Combat Spirited Charge Ride-By Attack Rhino-Hide Armor (the 3.0 version) Can you leap attack while riding if you have leap attack and make your mount jump, or must your mount have it in order for you to use yours? Also, if your mount has an ability that lets you charge for double damage, does this stack with Spirited Charge and the damage-doubling ability of the old rhino-hide armor, or does that effect only apply to your mount's attacks and not yours? (I'm looking specifically at the triceratops on this one, but I think Rhinos have it too.)
kjenks 08-01-06, 09:07 AM	How would all of this work together... Power Attack Leap Attack Mounted Combat Spirited Charge Ride-By Attack Rhino-Hide Armor (the 3.0 version) Can you leap attack while riding if you have leap attack and make your mount jump, or must your mount have it in order for you to use yours? Leap Attack does not appear to work for a mounted charge since you must do the jumping. Your DM may allow it, but I wouldn't count on it. Rhino Hide armor should work, but remember that it grants bonus dice of damage, and by the rules for D&D "multiplication" bonus damage dice are not multiplied on your Spirited Charge. Also, if your mount has an ability that lets you charge for double damage, does this stack with Spirited Charge and the damage-doubling ability of the old rhino-hide armor, or does that effect only apply to your mount's attacks and not yours? (I'm looking specifically at the triceratops on this one, but I think Rhinos have it too.) That ability would have no effect on your attacks. And if your campaign follows the FAQ, your mount can't attack while you do a RBA unless your mount has the Flyby Attack feat. A rhino does not actually charge for double damage. It has a Powerful Charge ability that is pretty close to double damage, but it's subtly different. Look how much damage a Powerful Charge from a rhino does on a critical hit. Since the Powerful Charge ability does not say the magic words "double damage" you multiply the whole thing; you don't need to follow the "double a double is a triple" rule.
SageBahamut 08-01-06, 12:48 PM	kjenks, thanks, but you missed a couple of things I mentioned. Firstly I'm using the old 3.0 rhino-hide armor, which did double damage when charging. also, i'm using a triceratops as my example, which does charge for double damage. Also I'm throwing in the Paladin spell Rhino's Rush. I did a version that included Lion's Charge as well, but it becomes problematic to keep getting that cast. Rings of spell storing are so expensive... I'm picturing a Fighter build (or better yet, a paladin with the smite-while-charging variant) riding with such a mount and a lance, spurring his mount into a jump, and piledriving his victim. I have the character sheet for this, and if it works like I think it does, it's the most game-breaking thing I've ever seen.
Dragonteuthis 08-01-06, 01:22 PM	it's the most game-breaking thing I've ever seen. Given that it's at least half composed of things you've made up, that should hardly come as surprising.
SageBahamut 08-01-06, 05:42 PM	I'm wondering which part you believe I've made up. The creature "Triceratops", published in the Monster Manual? The many feats published in the Player's Handbook, Complete Adventurer, etc. etc.? Rhino Hide Armor, published in at least the last two versions of the Dungeon Master's Guide? If you'd like to give me credit for "making up" these published sources, I'll gladly take the royalties that go with authorship, but somehow I think Mr.'s Cook, Tweet, and Williams (et. al.) would have an objection. Otherwise, kindly answer the question asked in its own context, and keep your ignorance to yourself.
Dragonteuthis 08-01-06, 06:32 PM	I did a version that included Lion's Charge as well, Sorry, I assume you made a spell that combined the Rhino's Rush and Lion's charge. I see I could have jumped to a conclusion. My apologies.
SageBahamut 08-02-06, 01:39 AM	OOhhh... I see what you mean. In that case, Dragonteuthis, I apologise back. I thought you were attacking my feat- and item-selection. Just to clarify, no, I didn't make a spell for that, I meant using the two spells together. They do work deliciously well together, on the rare occasion any character can benefit from both.
_sl0t_ 08-02-06, 02:02 AM	I think you are mixing up everythng because it's all in one action. There are two different attacks going on, one made by you, with your AB, your feats and your weapon and another made by your mount with her AB, feats and natural weapons. Spirited Charge doubles the damage you do on a mounted charge. The double damage thing from Powerful Charge should only affect the mount's damage, so both should not stack and be applied to each attack separetely. About Leap attack, that's a tough decision... If your mounting is Leap attacking, then the mount would need PA and LA and increase her damage only. If you're the one leap attacking, then you use your PA and LA to increase your damage only. You could say you're using your mount's leg power and jump to increase your damage. That would require a Ride or mount's Jump check CD 15 and maybe another check of Jump after for the distance covered? I don't know. Looks reasonable, but it just doesn't feel right. Edit: Also, can any mount attack on a regular charge? Or is any feat needed, like FBA for flying mounts?
_sl0t_ 08-02-06, 03:02 AM	by the way, where are these spells from and what do they do? Lion's charge and Rhino's rush.
SageBahamut 08-02-06, 03:14 AM	slot - The only attack I'm concerned with for this example is my own Leap Attack, made while riding. Making my mount attack as well would be adding insult to injury at this point. The spells Rhino's Rush and (I believe) Lion's Charge (or Lion's Leap or something Lionish) are both in the Spell Compendium, but not sure where they were from before that. As for what you said about using your mount's leg power to fuel your leap attack... yeah that's pretty much exactly what I'm doing. But that being the case, wouldn't Powerful Charge count, since the mount is charging powerfully (providing me leg power) but I'm doing the attacking (replacing his horn with my lance)? I see your reasoning, too, though...