Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lion21 07-28-05, 12:02 PM	Howdy folks, its me again. I come to you with a little conundrum. A player of mine wishes to plant a quall's feather token: Tree directly under a Druid, who is wildshaped into a dienonychus and is casting a spell. How should I handle this? How could I calculate the height and force of liftoff (assuming the creature fails it's Reflex save) and how for that matter should I assign a reflex save? You help is always appreciated. Thankyou.
Harliquinn 07-28-05, 01:10 PM	Well it really depends how much work you really want to put into this situation. A few things to consider: 1) The druid is size large (4 squares) 2) The tree is 5' at the base, 40' at the top and 60' tall 3) The tree springs into being instantaneously. It has no upward acceleration technically since it doesn't necessarily grow. 4) I believe feather tokens must be used at the point you want the effect to spring up, so that the user would have to get at least into one of the squares occupied by the large druidosaur. The way I would handle it is: 1) The token user must get to the druid's square (Use whatever rules are appropriate for this) 2) The tree 'springs' into being instantly. 3) The Druid makes a reflex save to avoid the tree's square (Similar to how casting a spell into an occupied space usually works (see various "Wall" spells). If the save is successful, the druid is not currently 'occupying' that 5x5 section that the tree pops up in and takes no damage and suffers no ill effects. If the save is failed, the druid is lifted on the boughs of the tree 60' into the air and may fall to the ground taking damage. I would offer a climb check to keep from falling (i.e. the creature has grabbed onto the brances). Perhaps give this check penalties as appropriate if the druid is caught unaware by this whole thing. If the druid falls, take damage as normal.
mvincent 07-28-05, 02:06 PM	How could I calculate the height and force of liftoff (assuming the creature fails it's Reflex save) and how for that matter should I assign a reflex save? The tree is 60-foot in height, but strictly speaking, the tree doesn't grow so much as instantly come into being (like many other summoned items). Normally an item cannot be summoned into an occupied area, but if you allow it in this case (because it just more fun that way), there should be no 'lift-off' or other calculations needed (mostly because calculations aren't fun). Simply put voluntary subjects on top. If you also want to add rules for it carrying involuntary subjects up with with (again, simply because it's more fun), you could make it similar to a Darn's instant fortress (but with less or no damage) and give it a DC 19 reflex save to get out of the way.
Pei-Pe 07-28-05, 04:40 PM	There is a precedent for similair effects, Daern's Instant Fortress. I'd Use that with a modified Ref. DC. Oh, and DC 10 touch attack to land the item in the appropriate square with appropriate cover modifiers (the Tyrannodruid Rex) say around a +4 so DC 14 all told with possibly a AoO unless the character in question has some nifty feats you as Dm deem right before looking or remembering the character's abilities. Gotta say, I like the creative use of the Token.
Enterik 07-28-05, 08:28 PM	I know it's a little late but here it is anyways... If we assume the tree accelerates druidosaurus up to 60 feet in one second, then v=60 feet per second, and assume g=32 feet per second. Substituting... X = (60*60) /2*32 = 112.5! EDIT: Actually it should be half that, 56.25 feet, despite typing it on the post, I forgot to actually divide by 2 :embarrass So the Druidosaurus would continue another 50' past the treeline then fall 110' to the dusty ground below for a total of 11d6 or an average of 38hp of falling damage. That is if you allow Quaal's Tree to be used in such a manner...
ClementWillowbreaker 07-28-05, 09:21 PM	Quall's Feather Token is not a Defenestrating Sphere- its not going to fling anything upward enough to deal damage- if it could, it would say so. Spell descriptions (and the item is essentially a spell) are explicit about damage and saves. Now that a tree is standing in one of the druid's squares (note that you can drop an item in your own square or any adjacent one, so the user doesn't even have to enter the druid's space, nevermind if he threw it), the druid has ended his movement in an illegal space, so he has to move. So he moves back one square (random direction if he didn't move that round already- if so, he moves back that way he came). As long as the Token was used while he casted (meaning during a 1 round casting-time spell or at a higher initiative that round) the druid suffered violent movement that round, and has to make a Concentration check at DC15. There's your "flinging skyward". It topples him over, and the druid rolls with it and regains his footing, but might have screwed up the spell. No need to bring physics into it.
Vaelan 07-29-05, 02:16 AM	The general rule (made by an "official" source when this subject came up months ago, I'm not sure where you could find it) is that magical growth is slow and will not continue to grow if it is obstructed in any way. And this tree token is still "growing", otherwise there would be no force with which to launch the Druid-osaurus. In other words... Player: I teleport into the dragon's stomach and activate my Quaal's Feather Token (Tree) to rupture several of its internal organs and kill it! DM: :nonono:
Enterik 07-29-05, 10:43 AM	The general rule (made by an "official" source when this subject came up months ago, I'm not sure where you could find it) is that magical growth is slow and will not continue to grow if it is obstructed in any way. And this tree token is still "growing", otherwise there would be no force with which to launch the Druid-osaurus. In other words... Player: I teleport into the dragon's stomach and activate my Quaal's Feather Token (Tree) to rupture several of its internal organs and kill it! DM: :nonono: I'd allow it, but the misjump chance would be pretty high, there would almost certainly be displacement damage and acid damage. Finally, the feather token tree would either fail or stop growing at 5' in length and thus doing no damage to the dragon. I wouldn't let on until the player gave it a go...creativity can be a double edged sword :evillaugh While I agree that Quaal's Token summons a tree instantaneously and should do displacement damage as if one had teleported into a solid object, or even a slam attack from the Gargantuan tree, I think the 'official' rule (citation anyone?) is inconsistant with existing material and an oversimplification If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it— the spell cannot be used to crush a creature by increasing its size. Thus, if that spell is a representative of magical growth, growing from below a druidosaurus is not limited by space (at least out of doors), and I'm fairly certain a 60' tree could support such a creature, even if only transiently. The problem is that the tree is trying to grow under a huge creature. If magical growth is like natural growth but faster, then the tree starts as a sapling which couldn't possibly lift a druidosaurus [medium creature trying to lift huge] Most likely, the tree would instead bend off in a random direction [roll 1d4 to determine angle,1=horizontal, 2=45degrees upward,3=60degrees upward, 4=staight upward; then roll 1d8 to determine direction as per grenade-like weapons]. At 30' it slams as huge, at 15' as large and at 5' medium. At each potential obstruction make an opposed strength check to see if growth continues (I'd give trees a +8 racial bonus to strength checks). If the tree loses, growth stops. Simple enough :P Medium Tree going straight up (d20+8) into a druidosaurus (d20+6+4) so they are pretty evenly matched. Or one could simply say that if the object weighs more than 600lbs a medium tree cannot lift it via growth and must stop or divert trajectory.
High Octane 07-29-05, 10:54 AM	Reflex negates. On a natural 1 he gets a maple enema.
Pei-Pe 07-29-05, 10:57 AM	Could always have te tree grow around the druid-saur, thus auto-grappling. To escape he has to change shape to something smaller, during which you cast warp wood and fully enclose the tree trunk around him...