Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Knightblde 05-18-07, 08:23 PM	This is a complicated question that at first appears simple. Can I use a whip in my off hand, and a sword in my main hand, and make attacks without the two-weapon fighting penalties? Two-Weapon fighting, by definition is: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. It very clearly is not: You wield a weapon in each hand while fighting. My contention is that since I am not gaining any extra attacks from using two weapons in a round, I am not "Two Weapon Fighting." I believe the most important rule that supports this is Quick Draw. If I have the Quick Draw feat, and three attacks per round, I can Draw a sword, attack, drop it, draw a dagger, throw it, then Draw a Gnome Hook Hammer, Trip with it, then make a follow up attack, all with no penalties. Therefore I have concluded the use of more than one weapon per round is not the reason for the penalties associated with Two Weapon Fighting, but the extra attack is. In all my questions, and in the examples below, an extra attack is never gained via Two Weapon Fighting, hence the basis for this whole discussion. All examples count the attacker as having the Improved Trip Feat Example 1: A Monk with +1 base attack carrying a quarterstaff makes a Trip Attack. A quarterstaff cannot be used to trip, so the Monk uses an 'Unarmed Attack' even though all Monks are considered armed. The Monk succeeds and Trips the target. Can that Monk now use the quarterstaff as the follow up attack? Example 2: A fighter with +6/+1 base attack uses a gnome hooked hammer to make a Trip Attack and trips his opponent. He now has a free attack from the trip (+6) and a normal attack (+1) left that he can make. Is there a limit as to which end of the weapon that he is now allowed to use? Are there any penalties? If so what and why? Example 3: (My case) A fighter with +6/+1 base attack uses a whip in his off hand (minuses to strength applied) to trip an opponent, then attacks the prone opponent with his Longsword, which is in his main hand. Are there any other penalties, and if so what and why? What are your thoughts? Thanks for your help.
Perseus_Stoned 05-18-07, 08:36 PM	From here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#twoWeaponFighting): If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You are wielding (holding) a weapon in your off hand, thus you are using two-weapon fighting. It does not say you suffer these penalties for using the weapon (though I have seen many disagree with this ruling), it simply mentions holding it. Thus the two-weapon penalties are applied. If we allowed what you are suggesting, then simply holding a dagger of +5 defense in one hand, without using it to fight, would be allowed. While it would be reasonable to allow this (although certain splat books and enchantment spells might contradict this), I stand by the rules as they are. Feel free to persuade your DM elsewise and not worry about the game getting shattered balance-wise, however (assuming you're not setting out specifically to do that). I would answer your examples, but I am unable to find where, in the rules, it states you get a "free attack" for successfully tripping an enemy? Could you please direct me to this ruling. Are you referring to the attack of opportunity offered if the opponent chooses stand up?
Kyaran 05-18-07, 08:55 PM	You are wielding (holding) a weapon in your off handFalse. Wielding is not the same as holding. If you benefit in any way from holding it (such as threatening with the weapon or making attacks with it in the last round), then you are wielding it. If you are wielding a second weapon, everything applies. If you are merely holding a weapon in your off-hand, there are no penalties other than not being able to use the hand for other actions. If you hold a torch in your off-hand, do you automatically take TWF penalties because it can be used to deal bludgeoning damage?
snakeman830 05-18-07, 08:55 PM	Other people have brought up similar questions and the response I swas was similar to: "If you don't use the second weapon, you do not take the penalties". Holding a weapon is not a problem, so long as you don't use it. However, in your example 3, you use both weapons, so yes. You would take penalties. In example 2, he is limited to whatever end (the hook) made the trip attack since he cannot now choose to take a penalty on the attack rolls to TWF. Example 1 is tricky. The monk entry in PHB states that there is no such thing as an offhand attack for a monk fighting unarmed. Despite this, I believe he would have to make the follow-up attack unarmed as he hasn't taken penalties yet on attack rolls and cannot reverse his descision at this point. (usually, this is the better option anyway as the monk's damage equals or surpasses that of a quarterstaff. Exceptions abound, however).
Knightblde 05-18-07, 09:00 PM	The rule about the free attack for trip is under the Improved Trip feat, chapter 5 PHB. All of the examples that I listed assume the character having Improved Trip. As far as holding a dagger of defending +5 there is no reason why a character could not do that without incurring any penalties. As long as the character does not attack with it, there is no question. Do you not agree that "you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon" is the most important part of the rule?
ruff0126 05-18-07, 09:10 PM	It never says you have to use the same weapon to trip and to attack, it simply states you make an attack at the same bonus. As for the two weapons and no twf penalties as long as you stick to what you BAB allows and do not try and get additional attacks their are no penalties as far a I could see.