A Monk Two Wep Fighter !!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Monk Two Wep Fighter !!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Deviston
02-24-05, 09:05 AM You can, but as per two wep fighting, you get negatives and only one extra attack. the negatives for a monk are as follows: -4/-4
now, if say you had Two wep fightin, your penalties would be: -4/-4. why? because two wep reduces penalties for your off hand, monks dont have an off hand. now that you have two wep and light weapons, all your attacks are now at a -2 penalty. Your regular attacks and the extra one you get. now on to Improved Two wep. this feat gives you ONE more attack at a -5 penalty. say you were a monk with BAB 8/5/2. You now have attacks 6/6/3/-2/0 you have all these attacks but these are the penalties added in. wow, thas great, and with flurry, wow! ok, got your point, but heres greater two wep. It gives you ANOTHER attack with your "offhand". Now what could be bad about that you ask? at a -10 penalty. You now have these attacks : 6/3/0 for your "primary" hand and 6/-2/-8 for your "off" hand. yeah!!! SIX ATTACKS !!! AND IF YOU FLURRY !!! WOW !!! acutally, no humor, at level 11 flurry now has no panalties and an extra attack, so it would be like this:

15th level Monk with these feats

Normal BAB 11/6/1
Flurry BAB 11/11/11/6/1
Gtwo wep "primary" 9/9/9/4/-1
"off hand" 9/9/9/-1/-11

i say this because i think he would still get the two flurry punches (( at highest bonus )) let me know if this is a go or a flop and explain.
tarkin
02-24-05, 11:27 AM You made ONE error, but it is a major one.

Niether TWF nor flurry are "doublings" they add a certain number attacks, period.

I.E. you can NOT flurry with your x hand. You Flurry with your entire body and once you do it for your good hand, you can't do it again for your off hand.

15 level monk that got the three twf feats, he does:

Normal BAB 11/6/1
Flurry BAB 11/11/11/6/1

two wep: "primary" 9/9/9/4/-1
"off hand" 9/4/-1
Deviston
02-24-05, 11:50 AM Once again tarkin, you win! and this I thank you for (( last night my monk had a tiff with another and the other tried to two wep )) and am glad you could clear this up. how long have you been playing? and do you DM online?

oh, and how can the last attack be a -1? i thought you get -10 for your third attack. if my math is right, a 1 + -10= -9 but maybe im wrong.

i thought (( if i take into account what you said )) it woudl be like this

Flurry: 9/9/9/4/-1
"offhand": 9/1/-9 or 9/-1/-11

I am doing this based on him having a BAB of 11/6/1, or are the attacks from the TW feats at highest BAB?

this i am not sure of as how ITW gives a second attack at a -5 penalty (( with or without the original -2 )) and GTW gives a third attack at a -10 penalty (( with or without the the original -2 penalty )) am i wrong? if so PLEASE tell me, i need to understand this, thanks

oh, and the only reason this confuses me is because of Perfect Two Weapon fighting, it say that i get attack with no penalties (( other than two wep fighting penalties )) and get attacks mirrored from the original.
18/13/8/3 BAB gets another set of 18/13/8/3 attacks not another set of 18/18/18/18 , so thats why I think the negs would apply to the full BAB not the highest attack.
Bonzai
02-24-05, 11:57 AM Heh, now make him duel wield rods of whithering. :D
Deviston
02-28-05, 08:58 AM Bump
Nom
02-28-05, 09:20 PM Tarkin is correct: your primary attacks are at +9/+9/+9/+4/-1 (only including flurry and TWF modifiers - add others as appropriate), while your off-hand attacks are at +9/+4/-1.

ITWF gives you a second off-hand attack at -5, which is implicitly -5 to whatever the first off-hand attack is at.

GTWF gives you a third off-hand attack at -10, again implicitly -10 to whatever the first attack is at.

In each case, the text says "You get a X attack with your off-hand weapon, albeit at a Y penalty". So you make the attack exactly like you make your first off-hand attack, but you add penalty Y to your attack bonus with the extra attack. It's easy as long as you don't think too hard and just do exactly what the rules say.

The fact that a TWF/ITWF/GTWF sequence follows exactly the same pattern as a normal BAB iterative sequence is not coincidence.
Deviston
03-02-05, 08:39 AM how can the off hand be 9/4/-1 ? that would be like this.

This chart shows attacks as if the 2wep feats gave extra attacks at highest bonus then accumulating penalties
First attack, 11-2 for 2 wep = 9
Second att, 11-5-2 for 2wep = 4
Third attack 11-10-2 for 2wep= -1

i thought that the attack got their benifits as if they were your regular base attack bonuses, not your highest BAB

This shows attacks as if the 2wep feats gave extra attacks at regular BAB then accumulating penalties
First attck, 11-2 for 2wep= =9
Second attack, 6 (( BAB )) -5-2 for 2wep= -1
Third attack , 1 (( BAB )) -10-2 for 2wep = -11

Tarkin is saying this, you get extra attacks with this BAB: 11/11/11 and then the penalties, is he right? or do you get them at THIS BAB: 11/6/1 and then the penalties. just tell me which one?
Hva
03-02-05, 09:35 AM how can the off hand be 9/4/-1 ? that would be like this.

This chart shows attacks as if the 2wep feats gave extra attacks at highest bonus then accumulating penalties
First attack, 11-2 for 2 wep = 9
Second att, 11-5-2 for 2wep = 4
Third attack 11-10-2 for 2wep= -1

i thought that the attack got their benifits as if they were your regular base attack bonuses, not your highest BAB

This shows attacks as if the 2wep feats gave extra attacks at regular BAB then accumulating penalties
First attck, 11-2 for 2wep= =9
Second attack, 6 (( BAB )) -5-2 for 2wep= -1
Third attack , 1 (( BAB )) -10-2 for 2wep = -11

Tarkin is saying this, you get extra attacks with this BAB: 11/11/11 and then the penalties, is he right? or do you get them at THIS BAB: 11/6/1 and then the penalties. just tell me which one?

U use your BAB= Base attack bonus

This means that all aextra attacks are made with th bab as base( in this case 11) and then you add the penaltys for the extra attacks.

the third attack has already gotten a -10 to it originally so the only thing to add in this case would be another -2 from wielding 2 wpns.

Did that explain it?? :confused:
Nom
03-02-05, 01:02 PM Tarkin is saying this, you get extra attacks with this BAB: 11/11/11 and then the penalties, is he right? or do you get them at THIS BAB: 11/6/1 and then the penalties. just tell me which one?Your problem is that you're actually confused about BAB and multiple attacks. Although the rules are occasionally slightly sloppy, it's clear from chapter 3 that you have only one base attack bonus, in this case +11. A high base attack bonus allows an additional attack at -5, and later a 3rd at -10 and a 4th at -15. These are extra attacks derived from your BAB (often called iterative attacks).

They are not the only source of extra attacks.
* haste allows an extra attack at full BAB.
* flurry of blows allows an extra attack at full BAB, but with (initially) a -2 penalty to all attacks in the round.
* Rapid Shot allows an extra attack with a ranged weapon at full BAB, but with a -2 penalty to all attacks in the round.

Extra weapons can also provide extra attacks:
* Natural weapons provide extra attacks with a -5 modifier. A natural attack (or attacks) can also be used as a primary weapon, in which case the -5 doesn't apply. Natural weapons never benefit from iterative attacks.
* Two-weapon fighting provides an extra attack with a weapon wielded in the off hand, but with varying penalty to all attacks.
* ITWF and GTWF provide additional attacks with a weapon in the off hand, albeit at -5 and -10 to the TWF penalties.

What you are missing is that all extra attacks taken as part of a full attack are based on the normal attack bonus derived from BAB, even iterative attacks. However, many apply a penalty, either to just that attack (iterative, ITWF, GTWF, natural secondary attacks) or to all attacks (flurry, Rapid Shot, TWF).

Describing BAB as +11/+6/+1 is just a convenience notation. Your BAB is +11, period. It just so happens that +11 BAB allows - by default - additional attacks at -5 (+6) and -10 (+1), so they are listed to make it easier.

As to "just tell me which one", what part of two (now three) different people all telling you that the correct sequence is +9/+4/-1 is hard to understand?
Deviston
03-03-05, 08:59 AM :: standing in broad auditorium like something from a greek story :: AND DID THE HEAVENS OPEN UP UNTO ME AND A LIGHT STRIKETH MINE HEAD, IMPARTING ME WITH DIVINE KNOWLEDGE OF WITH WHICH BARELY COULD BE HELDETH BY MY BRAIN!!! AND WITH THIS NEWLY ATTAINED MENTAL PROWESS, I SOARETH THE SKIES OF INTELLEGENCE (( UNLESS I CAN'TETH SPELL )) WITH RENOWNED WINGS OF GOLD AND OTHER SUCH PRETTY COLOURS with a hint of darkness cause of shadow and such AND DID THE WORLD BECOME GIVEN TO ME ON A DELICIOUS HALF-SHELL BY THE KNOWLEDGE IMPARTED !!! I don't know why that took so long to undertand. I do thank you for explaining that your BAB is 11 and not 11/6/1 and that these are just penalties added to the 11 to give ititerative (( ?? )) attacks. I thank you all cause now I don't feel like such an uneducated person. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
Hva
03-03-05, 11:48 AM :heehee

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Deviston 02-24-05, 09:05 AM	You can, but as per two wep fighting, you get negatives and only one extra attack. the negatives for a monk are as follows: -4/-4 now, if say you had Two wep fightin, your penalties would be: -4/-4. why? because two wep reduces penalties for your off hand, monks dont have an off hand. now that you have two wep and light weapons, all your attacks are now at a -2 penalty. Your regular attacks and the extra one you get. now on to Improved Two wep. this feat gives you ONE more attack at a -5 penalty. say you were a monk with BAB 8/5/2. You now have attacks 6/6/3/-2/0 you have all these attacks but these are the penalties added in. wow, thas great, and with flurry, wow! ok, got your point, but heres greater two wep. It gives you ANOTHER attack with your "offhand". Now what could be bad about that you ask? at a -10 penalty. You now have these attacks : 6/3/0 for your "primary" hand and 6/-2/-8 for your "off" hand. yeah!!! SIX ATTACKS !!! AND IF YOU FLURRY !!! WOW !!! acutally, no humor, at level 11 flurry now has no panalties and an extra attack, so it would be like this: 15th level Monk with these feats Normal BAB 11/6/1 Flurry BAB 11/11/11/6/1 Gtwo wep "primary" 9/9/9/4/-1 "off hand" 9/9/9/-1/-11 i say this because i think he would still get the two flurry punches (( at highest bonus )) let me know if this is a go or a flop and explain.
tarkin 02-24-05, 11:27 AM	You made ONE error, but it is a major one. Niether TWF nor flurry are "doublings" they add a certain number attacks, period. I.E. you can NOT flurry with your x hand. You Flurry with your entire body and once you do it for your good hand, you can't do it again for your off hand. 15 level monk that got the three twf feats, he does: Normal BAB 11/6/1 Flurry BAB 11/11/11/6/1 two wep: "primary" 9/9/9/4/-1 "off hand" 9/4/-1
Deviston 02-24-05, 11:50 AM	Once again tarkin, you win! and this I thank you for (( last night my monk had a tiff with another and the other tried to two wep )) and am glad you could clear this up. how long have you been playing? and do you DM online? oh, and how can the last attack be a -1? i thought you get -10 for your third attack. if my math is right, a 1 + -10= -9 but maybe im wrong. i thought (( if i take into account what you said )) it woudl be like this Flurry: 9/9/9/4/-1 "offhand": 9/1/-9 or 9/-1/-11 I am doing this based on him having a BAB of 11/6/1, or are the attacks from the TW feats at highest BAB? this i am not sure of as how ITW gives a second attack at a -5 penalty (( with or without the original -2 )) and GTW gives a third attack at a -10 penalty (( with or without the the original -2 penalty )) am i wrong? if so PLEASE tell me, i need to understand this, thanks oh, and the only reason this confuses me is because of Perfect Two Weapon fighting, it say that i get attack with no penalties (( other than two wep fighting penalties )) and get attacks mirrored from the original. 18/13/8/3 BAB gets another set of 18/13/8/3 attacks not another set of 18/18/18/18 , so thats why I think the negs would apply to the full BAB not the highest attack.
Bonzai 02-24-05, 11:57 AM	Heh, now make him duel wield rods of whithering. :D
Deviston 02-28-05, 08:58 AM	Bump
Nom 02-28-05, 09:20 PM	Tarkin is correct: your primary attacks are at +9/+9/+9/+4/-1 (only including flurry and TWF modifiers - add others as appropriate), while your off-hand attacks are at +9/+4/-1. ITWF gives you a second off-hand attack at -5, which is implicitly -5 to whatever the first off-hand attack is at. GTWF gives you a third off-hand attack at -10, again implicitly -10 to whatever the first attack is at. In each case, the text says "You get a X attack with your off-hand weapon, albeit at a Y penalty". So you make the attack exactly like you make your first off-hand attack, but you add penalty Y to your attack bonus with the extra attack. It's easy as long as you don't think too hard and just do exactly what the rules say. The fact that a TWF/ITWF/GTWF sequence follows exactly the same pattern as a normal BAB iterative sequence is not coincidence.
Deviston 03-02-05, 08:39 AM	how can the off hand be 9/4/-1 ? that would be like this. This chart shows attacks as if the 2wep feats gave extra attacks at highest bonus then accumulating penalties First attack, 11-2 for 2 wep = 9 Second att, 11-5-2 for 2wep = 4 Third attack 11-10-2 for 2wep= -1 i thought that the attack got their benifits as if they were your regular base attack bonuses, not your highest BAB This shows attacks as if the 2wep feats gave extra attacks at regular BAB then accumulating penalties First attck, 11-2 for 2wep= =9 Second attack, 6 (( BAB )) -5-2 for 2wep= -1 Third attack , 1 (( BAB )) -10-2 for 2wep = -11 Tarkin is saying this, you get extra attacks with this BAB: 11/11/11 and then the penalties, is he right? or do you get them at THIS BAB: 11/6/1 and then the penalties. just tell me which one?
Hva 03-02-05, 09:35 AM	how can the off hand be 9/4/-1 ? that would be like this. This chart shows attacks as if the 2wep feats gave extra attacks at highest bonus then accumulating penalties First attack, 11-2 for 2 wep = 9 Second att, 11-5-2 for 2wep = 4 Third attack 11-10-2 for 2wep= -1 i thought that the attack got their benifits as if they were your regular base attack bonuses, not your highest BAB This shows attacks as if the 2wep feats gave extra attacks at regular BAB then accumulating penalties First attck, 11-2 for 2wep= =9 Second attack, 6 (( BAB )) -5-2 for 2wep= -1 Third attack , 1 (( BAB )) -10-2 for 2wep = -11 Tarkin is saying this, you get extra attacks with this BAB: 11/11/11 and then the penalties, is he right? or do you get them at THIS BAB: 11/6/1 and then the penalties. just tell me which one? U use your BAB= Base attack bonus This means that all aextra attacks are made with th bab as base( in this case 11) and then you add the penaltys for the extra attacks. the third attack has already gotten a -10 to it originally so the only thing to add in this case would be another -2 from wielding 2 wpns. Did that explain it?? :confused:
Nom 03-02-05, 01:02 PM	Tarkin is saying this, you get extra attacks with this BAB: 11/11/11 and then the penalties, is he right? or do you get them at THIS BAB: 11/6/1 and then the penalties. just tell me which one?Your problem is that you're actually confused about BAB and multiple attacks. Although the rules are occasionally slightly sloppy, it's clear from chapter 3 that you have only one base attack bonus, in this case +11. A high base attack bonus allows an additional attack at -5, and later a 3rd at -10 and a 4th at -15. These are extra attacks derived from your BAB (often called iterative attacks). They are not the only source of extra attacks. * haste allows an extra attack at full BAB. * flurry of blows allows an extra attack at full BAB, but with (initially) a -2 penalty to all attacks in the round. * Rapid Shot allows an extra attack with a ranged weapon at full BAB, but with a -2 penalty to all attacks in the round. Extra weapons can also provide extra attacks: * Natural weapons provide extra attacks with a -5 modifier. A natural attack (or attacks) can also be used as a primary weapon, in which case the -5 doesn't apply. Natural weapons never benefit from iterative attacks. * Two-weapon fighting provides an extra attack with a weapon wielded in the off hand, but with varying penalty to all attacks. * ITWF and GTWF provide additional attacks with a weapon in the off hand, albeit at -5 and -10 to the TWF penalties. What you are missing is that all extra attacks taken as part of a full attack are based on the normal attack bonus derived from BAB, even iterative attacks. However, many apply a penalty, either to just that attack (iterative, ITWF, GTWF, natural secondary attacks) or to all attacks (flurry, Rapid Shot, TWF). Describing BAB as +11/+6/+1 is just a convenience notation. Your BAB is +11, period. It just so happens that +11 BAB allows - by default - additional attacks at -5 (+6) and -10 (+1), so they are listed to make it easier. As to "just tell me which one", what part of two (now three) different people all telling you that the correct sequence is +9/+4/-1 is hard to understand?
Deviston 03-03-05, 08:59 AM	:: standing in broad auditorium like something from a greek story :: AND DID THE HEAVENS OPEN UP UNTO ME AND A LIGHT STRIKETH MINE HEAD, IMPARTING ME WITH DIVINE KNOWLEDGE OF WITH WHICH BARELY COULD BE HELDETH BY MY BRAIN!!! AND WITH THIS NEWLY ATTAINED MENTAL PROWESS, I SOARETH THE SKIES OF INTELLEGENCE (( UNLESS I CAN'TETH SPELL )) WITH RENOWNED WINGS OF GOLD AND OTHER SUCH PRETTY COLOURS with a hint of darkness cause of shadow and such AND DID THE WORLD BECOME GIVEN TO ME ON A DELICIOUS HALF-SHELL BY THE KNOWLEDGE IMPARTED !!! I don't know why that took so long to undertand. I do thank you for explaining that your BAB is 11 and not 11/6/1 and that these are just penalties added to the 11 to give ititerative (( ?? )) attacks. I thank you all cause now I don't feel like such an uneducated person. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
Hva 03-03-05, 11:48 AM	:heehee