Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Starman IX 07-08-05, 11:01 AM	The 6' Katana thread got me thinking. How big is a Greatsword made for a large creature? Would you actually be able to carry it on your back? If not, then where? Would you be able to carry it inside anywhere? How would you swing it without taking out adjacent people?
tarkin 07-08-05, 11:14 AM	As a normal sized human can not wield a Great Sword sized for a Large creature (even with feats), it is a moot point. But I would assume you have to to drag it behind you if you killed a giant that used one. Obviously, Large creatures would just scabbard it the same way humans carry a Medium sized Great Sword.
Thorak 07-08-05, 11:14 AM	A size increase is, roughly, a doubling. Since a normal Greatsword is, give or take, about 6 feet long including hilt, that means a Large one would be 12 feet long. Big enough to be really awkward to fit through doors and such. What really gets me is people trying to finagle the rules to get a Huge greatsword. Even though the thing would be 24 feet long, and thus unable to be carried around, for instance, a 90 degree corner in a 10' wide hallway.
SALDAR 07-08-05, 11:20 AM	This is a fantasy game, don't try to bring too much reality in as it can make a really big mess from time to time. I have a 2' 9", 32 lb halfling that carries a medium sized greatsword. If all else fails, you strap it to your waste and drag the rest behind you in a little trailer.
Arishem 07-08-05, 12:56 PM	As a normal sized human can not wield a Great Sword sized for a Large creature (even with feats), it is a moot point. Isn't that exactly what monkey grip or powerful build allows you to do? Use a weapon one size catagory larger than you are?
Thorak 07-08-05, 01:09 PM	This is a fantasy game, don't try to bring too much reality in as it can make a really big mess from time to time. I have a 2' 9", 32 lb halfling that carries a medium sized greatsword. If all else fails, you strap it to your waste and drag the rest behind you in a little trailer. I don't think it's "too much reality". I'd make these same decisions for the same reasons I'd use the squeezing rules on a Large PC if he wanted to go down a 5' wide passage; it just makes sense.
mvincent 07-08-05, 06:11 PM	What really gets me is people trying to finagle the rules to get a Huge greatsword.Interestingly: a normal person (without any feats) can wield Huge-sized, Sun Blade bastard-sword.
Arishem 07-08-05, 06:18 PM	Interestingly: a normal person (without any feats) can wield Huge-sized, Sun Blade bastard-sword. Yup, Would make a nice Two-hander. noone answered my question above tho...Am i wrong in thinking you could as a medium character wield a Large Greatsword by using Powerful Build or Monkeygrip?
Thorak 07-08-05, 06:27 PM	Interestingly: a normal person (without any feats) can wield Huge-sized, Sun Blade bastard-sword. And take out the ceiling as they do so. And only two-handed, for what it's worth. And with a -4 penalty to hit.
mvincent 07-08-05, 06:37 PM	noone answered my question above tho...Am i wrong in thinking you could as a medium character wield a Large Greatsword by using Powerful Build or Monkeygrip?Sorry. You were absolutely correct. tarkin was probably just smoking crack when he answered saying you couldn't.
Arishem 07-08-05, 07:02 PM	He musta been, he's generally 95% accurate. This must be one of those 5%.
mvincent 07-08-05, 07:23 PM	He musta been, he's generally 95% accurate.95%? Ok, now you're smoking crack. (I kid, I kid) Seriously though, he might've been having flashbacks to the threads regarding "Huge" Greatswords.
Arishem 07-09-05, 01:15 AM	We'll you know what they say, 76% of statistics are pulled out of thin air.
TyraaloftheFist 07-09-05, 08:18 AM	I'd say that it'd be a bit longer than ten feet, at least, if the Fullblade/Ogre's Bastard Sword is a foot and a half longer than your average four to six foot greatsword. Carrying it? Prop it over your shoulder...and for Pete's sake, make sure it's made of adamantine. Easier to take out walls and get some room, y'know? You would, from my point of view, be able to carry it inside...just not very well. You'd have to go several feet away from the door before turning, for obvious reasons. I think I can remember once taking a Fullblade or Large Greatsword from the corpse of an ogre and carrying it into town. The DM justified a lack of scabbard by saying that the thing could be taken apart and put into a case, which was in the ogre's room, although I don't really think it's very feasable to be running around with a huge feckin' meat cleaver, blade, hilt, and guard all separated and put in a box strapped to your back, in a dungeon...mostly for pulling it out reasons. Swinging it without taking out adjacent people's a toughie, though...swing it overhanded? Ceiling. Stab? How far can your arms go back? No far enough to make it deal 3d6 points of damage, or however much Large Greatswords deal. I'd say just stab it into the air above the enemy's head and let gravity do the rest with a little help.
Sanosuke_Zanbatou 07-09-05, 01:59 PM	noone answered my question above tho...Am i wrong in thinking you could as a medium character wield a Large Greatsword by using Powerful Build or Monkeygrip? I do believe the discription of Monkey grip states something like "This does not allow someone to wield an oversized Light weapon in their off-hand, or an over-sized Double weapon." I think a Greatsword thats one size category larger is fair game. Oh, and increasing in size is not a 'doubling'. The Greatsword is not twice the length of a Longsword. A larger weapon would be more broad and slightly longer than it's smaller counter part(maybe 25-35% larger).
Thorak 07-09-05, 05:10 PM	Oh, and increasing in size is not a 'doubling'. The Greatsword is not twice the length of a Longsword. A larger weapon would be more broad and slightly longer than it's smaller counter part(maybe 25-35% larger). Yes, a size increase is a doubling. A Large longsword is twice as long as a Medium one. Comparing different weapons, however, is ridiculous, because some will be closer to the longer or shorter ends of their size categories. And the size categories are a bit rough to boot.
Willie the Duck 07-10-05, 01:38 AM	Do you have a page reference for that? This is from memory, but I seem to remember the weight doubling for a size increase, not each dimension. Doubling each dimension would realistically multiply the weight by eight (not that realism can really be contemplated here, the squared-cubed law pretty much requires the sword that is twice as long to be several times twice as thick, altering all of its functional qualities). size changes for containers apparently (at least between small and medium characters) is x4, I have no idea what logic that has. As to carrying them around, I could believe your human could drag a huge sized mace or greatclub (which you might even be able to roll around), but a greatsword would do horrible things like cut into the sod and get logged on roots and such. unless you have horses and wagons, I think they ought to be lost causes for dungeon or overland travel.
Ranix 07-10-05, 01:53 AM	Actually in this case there is a frame of reference for the above poster. This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature’s size category to the next larger one. Take from it what you will.
mvincent 07-10-05, 01:15 PM	Yes, a size increase is a doubling. A Large longsword is twice as long as a Medium one.The isn't necessarily true. Since creatures generally double in size with each size increase, this could be true, however, (in the equipment table) a weapon's weight only doubles with a size increase to large. This indicates that it probably didn't double in size in all dimensions (otherwise it's weight would've increased x8).
mvincent 07-10-05, 01:30 PM	Actually in this case there is a frame of reference for the above poster.Note:another applicable rules quote for this would be: From the equipment section (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/Equipment.rtf): "Weight: This column gives the weight of a Medium version of the weapon. Halve this number for Small weapons and double it for Large weapons." Also note: the description for the enlarge spell does imply that weapon/armor weight is multiplied x8, however it could instead imply that their size merely increases to that of a regular weapon the next size category (and so only doubling in weight). The last interpretation is vastly preferable, because even a moderately encumbered PC can become unable to move if all their gear weight is multiplied x8 (I've done the math in a different thread... it's not pretty).
Won Yalp 07-10-05, 02:37 PM	So you mean that if you cast enlarge person on a player, his wepons and armour weight is increased by x8, and his carring capasity is multiplied by 4. So this actully means that a medium sized human can carry a GS, but when he gets enlarged by his wizard partymember he can't, this makes no sence????? :confused: ?????? :confused: Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thorak 07-10-05, 03:41 PM	The isn't necessarily true. Since creatures generally double in size with each size increase, this could be true, however, (in the equipment table) a weapon's weight only doubles with a size increase to large. This indicates that it probably didn't double in size in all dimensions (otherwise it's weight would've increased x8). My issue with this is that it doesn't make any sense if you take it literally. In 2e, the weapon weights incorporated a hidden "encumbrance" factor; they weren't the literal weight of the item. And if you take a greatsword, and only use twice as much metal, you either end up with something that isn't proportioned like a greatsword (because it's too long and thing, most likely), or something that isn't remotely proportional to the double-sized creature intended to wield it.
Willie the Duck 07-10-05, 11:32 PM	My issue with this is that it doesn't make any sense if you take it literally. In 2e, the weapon weights incorporated a hidden "encumbrance" factor; they weren't the literal weight of the item. So the creatures weight octuples, but his equipments weight only doubles becuase large creatures should be advantagedus in mediating the encumbrance factor of carried items? Doesn't sound any worse than any other explanation but I can think of no realistic justification for it. I'd say game-designers-not-being-wholey-consistant as a more likely explanation. And if you take a greatsword, and only use twice as much metal, you either end up with something that isn't proportioned like a greatsword (because it's too long and thing, most likely), or something that isn't remotely proportional to the double-sized creature intended to wield it. true, but if you double the length and only double the width and thickness, you alter the structural qualities and thus change the functional quality of the item just as much as if it isn't proportional to the weilder. If you reason too far into any of these, you realize you can't just make giant or miniature humans and consider them "the same, but smaller/larger." I guess I'd go with flavor. Unfortunately, I have a conflict of flavor interests. When you want the ogre weilding the greatsword, it seems best that it be proportional (and thus twice as long). When you want the PCs to be able to interact with it in any way besides being killed by it (disarming the ogre, carrying it as party treasure, weilding it with tricked out feat selection, etc.), or justifying any ogre ever finding someone to put such amount of steel into a large sized two handed weapon, it just gets too ridicullous too fast.
Joseph Frederic 07-11-05, 12:28 AM	Someone please tell me about different sized weapons and range. What are the ranged increments for a Large sized Dagger such as a Powerfully built character can use? It seems that a larger spear or dagger might have longer range just as a long bow fires further than a short bow. Does a Large longbow fire further than a Medium longbow? Where can I find out about this?
SALDAR 07-11-05, 01:36 AM	Someone please tell me about different sized weapons and range. What are the ranged increments for a Large sized Dagger such as a Powerfully built character can use? It seems that a larger spear or dagger might have longer range just as a long bow fires further than a short bow. Does a Large longbow fire further than a Medium longbow? Where can I find out about this? Weapon size does not affect range.
Earthcrosser599 07-11-05, 04:44 AM	Weapon size does not affect range. At all? A colossal-sized human throws a colossal spear...20 feet. He's barely moving it compared to his size. A fine-sized human throws a fine spear...20 feet. He's probably throw it farther than he can see.
SALDAR 07-11-05, 08:46 PM	At all? A colossal-sized human throws a colossal spear...20 feet. He's barely moving it compared to his size. A fine-sized human throws a fine spear...20 feet. He's probably throw it farther than he can see. Yep. Go figure.
Joush Mark 07-12-05, 02:25 AM	Keep in mind that a real 2 handed sword isn't some huge, unweildy thing. They are fast, relatively light weapons that someone of reasonble strenth can use. There is alot of space to make a thicker, heavyer and slightly longer verison that requires more then some training and a reasonble amount of strenth.
Willie the Duck 07-13-05, 12:15 AM	Keep in mind that a real 2 handed sword isn't some huge, unweildy thing. They are fast, relatively light weapons that someone of reasonble strenth can use. There is alot of space to make a thicker, heavyer and slightly longer verison that requires more then some training and a reasonble amount of strenth. First of all, of course not. Most 2-handed swords ever used in battle weighed in at 5 lbs or less. That said, I'm not sure what you mean by this. There were certainly larger swords made (strictly for ceremonail purposes), and a really strong guy could use them in combat. He would not have been able to 1) use it fast. 2) use it consistantly, such that he didn't quickly suffer fatigue and get slaughtered. and 3) these weapons were not just "scaled up" versions of smaller weapons, they had their own dimensions and their own functionality.
Calibron 07-13-05, 01:35 AM	Weapon size does not affect range. :eek: Time to go suggest a house rule. And as for the question of carrying around a weapon with a size category larger than you, three words: Gloves of Storing.
Keenath 07-13-05, 10:04 AM	Funny you should mention the Huge Greatsword problem... Once my party killed a giant (or maybe it was a really big demon, efreet, something, I forget...). The point is, his Huge Greatsword was left stuck in the ground, so we just dug out the rubies from the hilt and left it. It was like twenty feet long! On the original poster's question: A normal person can use a Large greatsword at -2 if they have the monkey-grip feat. Without the feat, a normal person couldn't use it at all. With Powerful Build, you can use a Large Greatsword at no penalty at all, but Monkey Grip and Powerful Build don't stack; they both make reference to using weapons "one size category larger than you are", so both would allow a Medium character to use a Large weapon with the same number of hands a Large character would need (but Powerful Build avoids the -2 penalty). Powerful build is superior -- a Powerful Build character could, for example, weild a large shortsword and a large longsword together. Monkey Grip doesn't allow you to use a larger offhand weapon, so he'd be stuck with a large longsword and a medium shortsword. On weapon size and range: A really large greatsword shouldn't extend a giant's range any more than a normal greatsword extends a human's range. They get their natural reach, after all, the sword just affects how they attack within that area. Thrown weapons, though, should probably have some sort of modifier for size. I've mentioned this before on the boards; the difficulty with this is that a giant, even with his massive strength, can't see any better than a human. He doesn't have amazing dexterity just from his size. Logically, even a very big giant can't throw a spear a mile and reliably hit anything besides the ground. So, I think a good houserule is this: Creatures larger than large size can hurl thrown weapons an additional five range incriments for each size category above large. Ranged weapons that are not thrown may be fired an additional three range incriments for each size category above large. Such attacks still accrue the appropriate penalties for attacking at such long ranges.
Werebat troll paladin 07-13-05, 12:13 PM	"The item can weigh no more than 20 pounds and must be able to be held in one hand" -Glove of storing, SRD- Shouldn't be an issue, but it's important to note.