A most impressive ring [Archive] - Wizards Community

A most impressive ring [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kage_no_Neko
06-18-06, 01:22 PM Ring of Ray Deflection

A ring of ray deflection is made from clear crystal or gems that create rainbows out of any light that strikes it. While wearing it the user is protected against ranged touch attacks of any form (including spells).

Moderate abjuration; CL 7th; Forge Ring, ray deflection (Spell Compendium 166); Price 112,000 gp; Cost 56,000 gp + 4480 XP.
RavenDrake
06-18-06, 07:40 PM Err... just one thing. Is the "protected from Ranged touch attacks of any form" part directly from the Ray Deflection description.

Cause there are things other than rays that use Ranged Touch Attacks(like Grenade-like weapons).

It's fine if you want to include ALL ranged touch attacks, I'm just bringing it up(and i would want to change the name to be more evocative, like "Ring of Attack Deflection")
utilitarian
06-18-06, 08:00 PM My that is a very powerful ring. Now admittedly 112k gold is a lot, but in a campaign where a lot of magic is used that might be worth it.
risner
06-18-06, 10:09 PM Ring of Ray Deflection

A ring of ray deflection is made from clear crystal or gems that create rainbows out of any light that strickes it. While wearing it the user is protected against ranged touch attacks of any form (including spells).

Moderate abjuration; CL 7th; Forge Ring, ray deflection (Spell Compendium 166); Price 112,000 gp; Cost 56,000 gp + 4480 XP.

Intelligent items with 1/day Lesser Globe of Invulnerability costs 10,000 gp extra.

Convert to continuous:
10000*5 (1/day to unlimited) *4 (measured in rounds) = 200,000 gp

Ray Deflection is more powerful, so lets double the costs:
200,000 * 2 = 400,000

Ray Deflection is 1 minute/level instead of 1 round/level so is *2 instead
of *4 for continuous multiplier, so lower the costs:
400,000 / 2 = 200,000 gp

Close to your 112,000 gp. I think 112,000 gp may be slightly too low, because 100,000 gp is basically the cost of continuous Lesser Globe. But maybe 200,000 is too much? 150,000 gp?
Wonton2006
06-18-06, 10:46 PM And what happens to those ranged attacks? Do they still hit but simply do no damage or have no effect? Would that mean that a Melf's Acid Arrow could still melt your clothes? Do they bounce back at the caster? Are they sent in some random direction? Absorbed?

I'd suggest making it only rays, and stating clearly that the all of the ray's effects are nullified by the ring, and upping it to something like 140,000.
utilitarian
06-18-06, 11:44 PM Wonton2006: While this was originally my reaction to the ring as well, it appears to have been entirely validly made using the standard rules for creating a magic item and the Ray Deflection spell from Spell Compendium. (Unless my math is wrong and someone can correct me otherwise on the issue)

I really can't nay-say that.
Kage_no_Neko
06-19-06, 09:46 AM The text for Ray Deflection states:

For the duration of the spell, you are protected against ranged touch attacks, including ray spells and ray attacks made by creatures. Any ray attack directed at you is automatically reflected harmlessly away.

The spell is a 4th level bard, sorcerer/wizard spell, with a duration measured in minutes, so I believe the price is correct.
Carpe Diem
06-19-06, 10:03 AM So assuming that you copied the description of the ring word-for-word, what does that mean as long as you wear the ring?

Duration: The description seems to imply permanently, or would you activate it for 7 minutes/use. If so, how many uses can you get out of it each day or is that infinite?

Deflection: It doesn't SAY only rays, but I would assume that it only applies against rays because it says it "makes rainbows out of any light that touches it."

So if I bought this ring, I would say that as long as I'm wearing it, I am immune to ray attacks. Is this correct?
utilitarian
06-19-06, 03:02 PM Use Activated Or Continuous:

Spell Level x Caster Level x 2000 ( x2 for minutes per level)

4 x 7 x 2000 x 2 = 112,000

I don't see any reason to work it out any other way. It's a perfectly legitimate item created useing the standard item creation rules. There's no reason to adjust the cost based on how it compairs to another item (such as Globe of Invulnerability) or anything.

I think Imma get one of these made for my Eldrich Knight

*edit* In answer to your question Carpe: You are continuously under the effects of this spell so long as you wear the ring (unlike the less expensive Command Word activated version). Strictly speaking, by the RAW for the spell, you are simply immune to any spell that requires a ranged touch attack. Period. Now, a DM could potentially say that it, as a spell, is too powerful and restrict it only to Ray spells, but that's a houseruling and not strictly by the RAW.
Kage_no_Neko
06-22-06, 03:00 PM As I read the description of the spell, I believe it means all ranged touch attacks. This includes attacks from spells and splash weapons targeted upon the wearer. Someone using a splash weapon can always target the wearers square, but then they only get hit with the splash, and ranged touch attacks from rays and other such spells can always be delivered as melee touch attacks (which are considered armed and do not provoke AoO).
Raven Dark
06-22-06, 04:33 PM Such a ring would make someone immune to the effects of bolas and nets too, not jsut splash weapons.
Kage_no_Neko
06-22-06, 06:59 PM Such a ring would make someone immune to the effects of bolas and nets too, not jsut splash weapons.

As the net specifically says you need a ranged touch attack, then I would say yes the ring would protect you from a net.

Bolas require a ranged attack unless you do a ranged trip attack, at which point you have to do a ranged touch (kind of a grey area, as trip written in the PH only talks about melee trips). As a GM, I would still allow you to do a ranged trip attack with the bolas, but I would require a regular ranged attack for this situation as opposed to a ranged touch, and I would still have you do regular damage, the trip would just be a bonus.
lint trap
06-22-06, 10:06 PM This sounds like a "True Strike" moment. Sometimes, you just have to fudge an item's cost to keep things balanced.
SalParadise
06-22-06, 10:24 PM Not to mention that it would give you immunity to a Master Thrower 5's thrown weapons. All of them. But a Master Thrower 4 would be able to hit no problem.

It would also make you immune to a Warlock's Eldritch Blast.

Far far FAR too powerful as written. For the cost at any rate.
Kage_no_Neko
06-23-06, 01:11 AM Not to mention that it would give you immunity to a Master Thrower 5's thrown weapons. All of them. But a Master Thrower 4 would be able to hit no problem.

It would also make you immune to a Warlock's Eldritch Blast.

Far far FAR too powerful as written. For the cost at any rate.

If you consider the fact that in the DMG it says for a Metropolis, the largest possible city, the most expensive item you can readily purchase maxes out at 100,000 gp (some planar trade cities, such as Sigil have larger maximums), then the only way to acquire this ring is to commission it. As a GM, this instantly limits the access to the ring (my group plays with these rules, so I know) to only those situations that the GM allows, such as after an appropriately tough quest to gain the materials necessary to create the ring. In either case, there are always ways around any item; I have already listed several.
SalParadise
06-23-06, 01:15 AM If you've got 'craft ring' and you've got the spell -- no problem.
Kage_no_Neko
06-23-06, 01:26 AM If you've got 'craft ring' and you've got the spell -- no problem.

As long as you have the materials. Remember, a GM can always say you need some specific material for any magic item; it usually does not come up, but for something this powerful I could see a GM saying the ring had to be made from a crystal found only on the 762nd layer of the abyss, and there just does not seem to be any for sale locally.
SalParadise
06-23-06, 04:12 AM I would far rather the DM either

a) made the ring more expensive
b) limited it to simply spells with the 'ray' descriptor
c) prevented it from working against thrown objects/eldritch blast

than allowing an item which is so powerful that it needs to be given the '762nd layer of the abyss' cheese.
utilitarian
06-23-06, 07:15 PM This sounds like a "True Strike" moment. Sometimes, you just have to fudge an item's cost to keep things balanced.

This isn't some random home-brew items folks, this is a fully published spell turned into an item using the RAW CORE item creation rules.

The True Strike situation is signifigantly different, as it is a spell with very specific non-standard perameters (single round duration, single attack expendature).

Ray Deflection, as a spell, is a completely normal minutes/level duration spell with no extrordinary circumstances or exceptions.

If any arguement can be validly made, it must be that the SPELL this item is based off of, not the item itself, is unabalanced, or at least poorly written. As the spell stands it would appear to protect against things like Nets and Bolas, despite this obviously not being the intent of the spell.
Kage_no_Neko
06-23-06, 09:08 PM I would far rather the DM either ... than allowing an item which is so powerful that it needs to be given the '762nd layer of the abyss' cheese.

The 762nd layer was just an example. If you read the description of magic item creation in the DMG it has always said that certain items need specific components to be created, and those components are up to the GM. It is not cheese to require significant effort to acquire an item not purchasable in any city, it only makes sense.
SalParadise
06-23-06, 09:32 PM If the item is too powerful to allow purchase by anyone who has the money and is in a big enough city, then maybe the price should be raised or the power dropped? Nerfing availability to make up for power seems like a poor trade-off to me.

Anything that stops thrown weapons when designed to prevent ray spells has gone a little too far off the intended course for me.
utilitarian
06-23-06, 09:43 PM Well it doesn't neccisarily stop all thrown weapons, just those that require ranged touch attacks.

Again, if I were to Errata this spell, I would change the wording to "Stops all MAGICAL ranged touch attacks" or "Renders all spells which require a ranged touch attack ineffective" or even "Stops all rays" though this last one is vague as to which spells it allows (not all spells that use Rays have Ray in the name and vice versa.
Kage_no_Neko
06-23-06, 09:49 PM If the item is too powerful to allow purchase by anyone who has the money and is in a big enough city, then maybe the price should be raised or the power dropped? Nerfing availability to make up for power seems like a poor trade-off to me.

That's just it, by the DMG there is no city large enough where this is available, its too expensive. Only planar trade cities like Sigil or the City of Brass are considered exceptional enough to be able to buy an item with a cost of over 100,000 gp. That being the case the only way to acquire this then is to take it from someone who has one, create it yourself, or commission it. There is no nerfing, it is straight from the DMG. (And yes, I know that the 100k gp limit prevents characters from just picking up a +8 or better magic weapon just because they have the money. But isn't that the way it should be; everyone knows great heroes need great weapons, but that does not mean skipping down to the local 'Quickie Bladeshop' and dropping a bit of gold, it means working to get the good stuff.)
SalParadise
06-23-06, 10:10 PM Well it doesn't neccisarily stop all thrown weapons, just those that require ranged touch attacks.

Again, if I were to Errata this spell, I would change the wording to "Stops all MAGICAL ranged touch attacks" or "Renders all spells which require a ranged touch attack ineffective" or even "Stops all rays" though this last one is vague as to which spells it allows (not all spells that use Rays have Ray in the name and vice versa.

That's the thing I brought up though -- a 5th level Master Thrower who has 'weak spot' as one of his throwing abilities has all his thrown weapon attacks resolve as ranged touch attacks. In other words, against this ring, a 4th level master thrower would be MORE effective than a 5th level master thrower. That doesn't fly with me. I realize that you can house rule it, blah blah blah, but really...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kage_no_Neko 06-18-06, 01:22 PM	Ring of Ray Deflection A ring of ray deflection is made from clear crystal or gems that create rainbows out of any light that strikes it. While wearing it the user is protected against ranged touch attacks of any form (including spells). Moderate abjuration; CL 7th; Forge Ring, ray deflection (Spell Compendium 166); Price 112,000 gp; Cost 56,000 gp + 4480 XP.
RavenDrake 06-18-06, 07:40 PM	Err... just one thing. Is the "protected from Ranged touch attacks of any form" part directly from the Ray Deflection description. Cause there are things other than rays that use Ranged Touch Attacks(like Grenade-like weapons). It's fine if you want to include ALL ranged touch attacks, I'm just bringing it up(and i would want to change the name to be more evocative, like "Ring of Attack Deflection")
utilitarian 06-18-06, 08:00 PM	My that is a very powerful ring. Now admittedly 112k gold is a lot, but in a campaign where a lot of magic is used that might be worth it.
risner 06-18-06, 10:09 PM	Ring of Ray Deflection A ring of ray deflection is made from clear crystal or gems that create rainbows out of any light that strickes it. While wearing it the user is protected against ranged touch attacks of any form (including spells). Moderate abjuration; CL 7th; Forge Ring, ray deflection (Spell Compendium 166); Price 112,000 gp; Cost 56,000 gp + 4480 XP. Intelligent items with 1/day Lesser Globe of Invulnerability costs 10,000 gp extra. Convert to continuous: 100005 (1/day to unlimited) 4 (measured in rounds) = 200,000 gp Ray Deflection is more powerful, so lets double the costs: 200,000 * 2 = 400,000 Ray Deflection is 1 minute/level instead of 1 round/level so is 2 instead of 4 for continuous multiplier, so lower the costs: 400,000 / 2 = 200,000 gp Close to your 112,000 gp. I think 112,000 gp may be slightly too low, because 100,000 gp is basically the cost of continuous Lesser Globe. But maybe 200,000 is too much? 150,000 gp?
Wonton2006 06-18-06, 10:46 PM	And what happens to those ranged attacks? Do they still hit but simply do no damage or have no effect? Would that mean that a Melf's Acid Arrow could still melt your clothes? Do they bounce back at the caster? Are they sent in some random direction? Absorbed? I'd suggest making it only rays, and stating clearly that the all of the ray's effects are nullified by the ring, and upping it to something like 140,000.
utilitarian 06-18-06, 11:44 PM	Wonton2006: While this was originally my reaction to the ring as well, it appears to have been entirely validly made using the standard rules for creating a magic item and the Ray Deflection spell from Spell Compendium. (Unless my math is wrong and someone can correct me otherwise on the issue) I really can't nay-say that.
Kage_no_Neko 06-19-06, 09:46 AM	The text for Ray Deflection states: For the duration of the spell, you are protected against ranged touch attacks, including ray spells and ray attacks made by creatures. Any ray attack directed at you is automatically reflected harmlessly away. The spell is a 4th level bard, sorcerer/wizard spell, with a duration measured in minutes, so I believe the price is correct.
Carpe Diem 06-19-06, 10:03 AM	So assuming that you copied the description of the ring word-for-word, what does that mean as long as you wear the ring? Duration: The description seems to imply permanently, or would you activate it for 7 minutes/use. If so, how many uses can you get out of it each day or is that infinite? Deflection: It doesn't SAY only rays, but I would assume that it only applies against rays because it says it "makes rainbows out of any light that touches it." So if I bought this ring, I would say that as long as I'm wearing it, I am immune to ray attacks. Is this correct?
utilitarian 06-19-06, 03:02 PM	Use Activated Or Continuous: Spell Level x Caster Level x 2000 ( x2 for minutes per level) 4 x 7 x 2000 x 2 = 112,000 I don't see any reason to work it out any other way. It's a perfectly legitimate item created useing the standard item creation rules. There's no reason to adjust the cost based on how it compairs to another item (such as Globe of Invulnerability) or anything. I think Imma get one of these made for my Eldrich Knight edit In answer to your question Carpe: You are continuously under the effects of this spell so long as you wear the ring (unlike the less expensive Command Word activated version). Strictly speaking, by the RAW for the spell, you are simply immune to any spell that requires a ranged touch attack. Period. Now, a DM could potentially say that it, as a spell, is too powerful and restrict it only to Ray spells, but that's a houseruling and not strictly by the RAW.
Kage_no_Neko 06-22-06, 03:00 PM	As I read the description of the spell, I believe it means all ranged touch attacks. This includes attacks from spells and splash weapons targeted upon the wearer. Someone using a splash weapon can always target the wearers square, but then they only get hit with the splash, and ranged touch attacks from rays and other such spells can always be delivered as melee touch attacks (which are considered armed and do not provoke AoO).
Raven Dark 06-22-06, 04:33 PM	Such a ring would make someone immune to the effects of bolas and nets too, not jsut splash weapons.
Kage_no_Neko 06-22-06, 06:59 PM	Such a ring would make someone immune to the effects of bolas and nets too, not jsut splash weapons. As the net specifically says you need a ranged touch attack, then I would say yes the ring would protect you from a net. Bolas require a ranged attack unless you do a ranged trip attack, at which point you have to do a ranged touch (kind of a grey area, as trip written in the PH only talks about melee trips). As a GM, I would still allow you to do a ranged trip attack with the bolas, but I would require a regular ranged attack for this situation as opposed to a ranged touch, and I would still have you do regular damage, the trip would just be a bonus.
lint trap 06-22-06, 10:06 PM	This sounds like a "True Strike" moment. Sometimes, you just have to fudge an item's cost to keep things balanced.
SalParadise 06-22-06, 10:24 PM	Not to mention that it would give you immunity to a Master Thrower 5's thrown weapons. All of them. But a Master Thrower 4 would be able to hit no problem. It would also make you immune to a Warlock's Eldritch Blast. Far far FAR too powerful as written. For the cost at any rate.
Kage_no_Neko 06-23-06, 01:11 AM	Not to mention that it would give you immunity to a Master Thrower 5's thrown weapons. All of them. But a Master Thrower 4 would be able to hit no problem. It would also make you immune to a Warlock's Eldritch Blast. Far far FAR too powerful as written. For the cost at any rate. If you consider the fact that in the DMG it says for a Metropolis, the largest possible city, the most expensive item you can readily purchase maxes out at 100,000 gp (some planar trade cities, such as Sigil have larger maximums), then the only way to acquire this ring is to commission it. As a GM, this instantly limits the access to the ring (my group plays with these rules, so I know) to only those situations that the GM allows, such as after an appropriately tough quest to gain the materials necessary to create the ring. In either case, there are always ways around any item; I have already listed several.
SalParadise 06-23-06, 01:15 AM	If you've got 'craft ring' and you've got the spell -- no problem.
Kage_no_Neko 06-23-06, 01:26 AM	If you've got 'craft ring' and you've got the spell -- no problem. As long as you have the materials. Remember, a GM can always say you need some specific material for any magic item; it usually does not come up, but for something this powerful I could see a GM saying the ring had to be made from a crystal found only on the 762nd layer of the abyss, and there just does not seem to be any for sale locally.
SalParadise 06-23-06, 04:12 AM	I would far rather the DM either a) made the ring more expensive b) limited it to simply spells with the 'ray' descriptor c) prevented it from working against thrown objects/eldritch blast than allowing an item which is so powerful that it needs to be given the '762nd layer of the abyss' cheese.
utilitarian 06-23-06, 07:15 PM	This sounds like a "True Strike" moment. Sometimes, you just have to fudge an item's cost to keep things balanced. This isn't some random home-brew items folks, this is a fully published spell turned into an item using the RAW CORE item creation rules. The True Strike situation is signifigantly different, as it is a spell with very specific non-standard perameters (single round duration, single attack expendature). Ray Deflection, as a spell, is a completely normal minutes/level duration spell with no extrordinary circumstances or exceptions. If any arguement can be validly made, it must be that the SPELL this item is based off of, not the item itself, is unabalanced, or at least poorly written. As the spell stands it would appear to protect against things like Nets and Bolas, despite this obviously not being the intent of the spell.
Kage_no_Neko 06-23-06, 09:08 PM	I would far rather the DM either ... than allowing an item which is so powerful that it needs to be given the '762nd layer of the abyss' cheese. The 762nd layer was just an example. If you read the description of magic item creation in the DMG it has always said that certain items need specific components to be created, and those components are up to the GM. It is not cheese to require significant effort to acquire an item not purchasable in any city, it only makes sense.
SalParadise 06-23-06, 09:32 PM	If the item is too powerful to allow purchase by anyone who has the money and is in a big enough city, then maybe the price should be raised or the power dropped? Nerfing availability to make up for power seems like a poor trade-off to me. Anything that stops thrown weapons when designed to prevent ray spells has gone a little too far off the intended course for me.
utilitarian 06-23-06, 09:43 PM	Well it doesn't neccisarily stop all thrown weapons, just those that require ranged touch attacks. Again, if I were to Errata this spell, I would change the wording to "Stops all MAGICAL ranged touch attacks" or "Renders all spells which require a ranged touch attack ineffective" or even "Stops all rays" though this last one is vague as to which spells it allows (not all spells that use Rays have Ray in the name and vice versa.
Kage_no_Neko 06-23-06, 09:49 PM	If the item is too powerful to allow purchase by anyone who has the money and is in a big enough city, then maybe the price should be raised or the power dropped? Nerfing availability to make up for power seems like a poor trade-off to me. That's just it, by the DMG there is no city large enough where this is available, its too expensive. Only planar trade cities like Sigil or the City of Brass are considered exceptional enough to be able to buy an item with a cost of over 100,000 gp. That being the case the only way to acquire this then is to take it from someone who has one, create it yourself, or commission it. There is no nerfing, it is straight from the DMG. (And yes, I know that the 100k gp limit prevents characters from just picking up a +8 or better magic weapon just because they have the money. But isn't that the way it should be; everyone knows great heroes need great weapons, but that does not mean skipping down to the local 'Quickie Bladeshop' and dropping a bit of gold, it means working to get the good stuff.)
SalParadise 06-23-06, 10:10 PM	Well it doesn't neccisarily stop all thrown weapons, just those that require ranged touch attacks. Again, if I were to Errata this spell, I would change the wording to "Stops all MAGICAL ranged touch attacks" or "Renders all spells which require a ranged touch attack ineffective" or even "Stops all rays" though this last one is vague as to which spells it allows (not all spells that use Rays have Ray in the name and vice versa. That's the thing I brought up though -- a 5th level Master Thrower who has 'weak spot' as one of his throwing abilities has all his thrown weapon attacks resolve as ranged touch attacks. In other words, against this ring, a 4th level master thrower would be MORE effective than a 5th level master thrower. That doesn't fly with me. I realize that you can house rule it, blah blah blah, but really...