Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CaptFrigate 11-27-05, 05:31 PM	Ploearms are my favorite type of weapons, and have been for some time. What dissappoints me, though, is that all of current polearms either have reach, and thus are less than ideal for melee combat, or are meant to be thrown. I was thinking about a way to make polearms more useable in a fight. You could have the option of fighting with a polearm as a reach weapon, or using it as a sort of bladed quarterstaff, and using it as a double weapon. It could be a standard action to switch, and maybe it would need a feat. Any thoughts?
Novacat 11-27-05, 06:10 PM	Polearms were designed for mass combat and troop line-formations, not 1v1 combat. They serve their purpose well.
dvlsadvct 11-27-05, 06:11 PM	Where would one find the stats for a 'polearm'? I only know of the poleaxe in CW. Don't say 3.0.
WayneTheGame 11-27-05, 06:27 PM	Where would one find the stats for a 'polearm'? I only know of the poleaxe in CW. Don't say 3.0. 3.0 :D Seriously, I thought a polearm is anything that has a long pole attached to the blade.. e.g. halberd, longspear (used to be called a Pike), glaive, ranseur, and all the rest.
Novacat 11-27-05, 06:34 PM	A polearm is a loosely defined category of weapon, which includes any weapon with a long shaft and a "business end". Generally speaking, a polearm's business end is very small compared to the length of the shaft, making it ideal for hitting thing outside the range of most melee weapons. The category of polearms includes (from the PHB) all manner of spears, tridents, glaives, guisarmes, halberds, ranseur, and scythes (this is arguable). For more information on polearms, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polearm
dvlsadvct 11-27-05, 08:20 PM	The category of polearms includes (from the PHB) all manner of spears, tridents, glaives, guisarmes, halberds, ranseur, and scythes (this is arguable). This is why i specifically asked for the stats of a 'polearm'. Most of the weapons you listed dont have reach, which is what the whole beef was about. Don't get me wrong, these are all the weapons i had imagined as 'polearms' and that's why i dont understand what the problem is.
Wharin 11-27-05, 08:55 PM	This is why i specifically asked for the stats of a 'polearm'. Isnt that sort of a loaded question? Its more of a catagory of weapons, not any one statable weapon. I have a feeling you were trying to go somewhere with that question, but everything said after that lost me. Meh.. Also, for what its worth, there is a Dragon magazine (within the past year) that seams to cover everything that the OP wanted, be it through feats or other various polearm-weapons.
Bob Loblaw 11-27-05, 09:09 PM	originally posted by Wharin Also, for what its worth, there is a Dragon magazine (within the past year) that seams to cover everything that the OP wanted, be it through feats or other various polearm-weapons. I believe it was #331. originally posted by dvlsadvct This is why i specifically asked for the stats of a 'polearm'. Most of the weapons you listed dont have reach, which is what the whole beef was about. Don't get me wrong, these are all the weapons i had imagined as 'polearms' and that's why i dont understand what the problem is. Longspear, Glaive, Guisarme, Ranseur all have reach and are considered polearms.
Inigo Carmine 11-27-05, 09:18 PM	What dissappoints me, though, is that all of current polearms either have reach, and thus are less than ideal for melee combat I don't understand this statement. Reach is an excellent quality for a weapon. It has disadvantages, sure, but they are outweighed by its advantages. Like: 1) Anything without reach approaching you in a non-careful manner (ie spring attack or tumbling or 5-ft stepping) will provoke an AoO. 2) You can approach enemies with reach without having to take special precautions (ie spring attack or tumbling or 5-ft stepping). 3) You can perform moves that normally provoke AoOs without fear of them on opponents with less reach (like disarming or sundering). And much more.
CaptFrigate 11-27-05, 09:26 PM	Thanks! Ill have to look that up! And in response to Novacat, I was looking at the WoT Campaign Setting, and it mentions a polearm that can be used as a quarterstaff. I loved the idea, and I was wondering how to do pull off a similar thing in D&D. And Inigo, I realize that reach weapons have several advantages, but I like the idea of a polearm that can be used in melee. It just seems so cool! :D
Vahenir 11-27-05, 09:49 PM	but I like the idea of a polearm that can be used in melee. Uhm.. "melee" simply means "hand-to-hand combat." Tell me how you are unable to use a reach weapon to attack someone in hand-to-hand combat... considering that is the PURPOSE of any melee weapon (which all polearms are). In any event, if you want to lose the reach and gain a second attack.. make a feat called 'Half-Grip' or 'Spinning (Insert Name of Polearm Here)' that allows you to do just that. And for those that think the term 'polearm' is widely applied.. consider this: Many polearms are also technically considered 'axes' as well. The pollaxe, halberd, voulge, guisarme and a host of other 'polearms' are also 'axes' -- especially in period manuscripts.
CaptFrigate 11-27-05, 09:51 PM	Sorry about that, it was the easiest way to get my meaning across. And when I say polearms, I mean halberds and the like too.
Vaalingrade Ashland 11-27-05, 09:55 PM	Here ya go: http://www.worldofere.com/feats.htm#longreachcombat Anyone who says you can't fight blade and butt with a polearm doesn't know what one is. Neither do the designers. They think they're pikes.
Vahenir 11-27-05, 09:59 PM	I know that you meant halberds too. And I agree that you can fight with both sides of them. I just don't see how having reach makes a weapon not 'capable' in melee combat.
CaptFrigate 11-27-05, 10:03 PM	I did mean that, what I really meant was that I would lik to be able to see a longspear wielder being able to go head to head with a swordsman, or an axe wielder. Also, I like the idea of a bladed quarterstaff. Hmmm...a longspear with two blades...
pvrhye 11-27-05, 10:05 PM	You just need some sorta Unarmed capability so that you can make AoO. Because on your own turn 5' step fixes all your problems.
Vahenir 11-27-05, 10:05 PM	Well if you mean 'in real life' -- your best defense against a swordsman if you have a spear is to keep him away from you. Polearms certainly can be used close-up, but it's really not the -best- use of them, since your best defense against getting killed is to keep the guy -away- from you. But still.. just use a special homebrew feat, as both myself and others suggested, and enjoy.
phelanarcetus 11-28-05, 12:20 PM	I know Complete Warrior has, among the style feats, a feat for using a Halberd as a double weapon (I believe the "off-hand" is treated as a 1d6 x2 weapon). This should be easily adaptable to similar weapons. As a side note, one of my favorite non-updated double weapons was the Gyrspike (basically a longsword mated to a flail).
zelf_gale 11-28-05, 06:32 PM	A monk with a longspear is a potent combination that takes care of the lack of reack problem. Wasn't there some weapon in a WotC book called longstaff. You could easily houserule that weapon into your polearms I bet.
Black Mantha 11-29-05, 04:13 AM	I think reach weapons would overpower the other weapons if they all would be allowed to be used at close range. Using a polearm as a quarterstaff should at least be considered an improvised weapon (-4 to attack) because the balance is completely off. If you want to use a reaach weapon be not be helpless at close range, take the Quick Draw feat and carry a backup weapon.
LaoKhanWei 11-29-05, 05:02 AM	The shortspear was considered an excellent dueling weapon in ancient China :) I suppose it's not a true polearm though, since in D&D terms it doesn't have reach.
Mr. Master 11-29-05, 08:03 AM	You're right LaoKhanWei. Of course,the fact that you can throw it to an enemy is an good advantage. As for polearms in close combat,I completely agree with all the others.They're good weapons in melee,you just have to move 5feet away and still you can use them with all your attacks. In real life,polearms were good because of their reach (just think about Alexander the Great's phalanx),but,on the other hand, a soldier was at disadvantage when faced by an enemy with,let's say,sword and shield who had reached him. Just think about fighting with a 10feet weapon in a small space against someone with a sword:a nightmare!
pvrhye 11-29-05, 11:54 AM	Polearms work well with leadership feat as well. There are a few feats for formations.
rusc75 11-29-05, 02:40 PM	As I see the original posters problem is that he want's to fight (and threaten) the adjacent squares with a reach weapon. Also it seems to be more of a flavor thing than a powergame thing. The option of using the reach weapon as an improvised weapon seems allright, but not as stylish as one might want. I'd say a feat that let's you use a polearm as quarterstaff wouldn't be unbalanced considering all the other options you'd have with or without spending a feat. As other poster have mentioned not threatening adjacent squares isn't that much of a problem since you can just 5' step away. Alternatively you can make an unarmored trip or disarm attempt instead of a normal attack. If your concern is about threatening both adjacent squares and 10', you could put on a spiked armor or spiked gauntlets without spending a feat. If you don't mind spending a feat Improved Unarmed Strike or EWP Spiked Chain also let's you threaten adjacent squares. Or Quick Draw to switch weapons as has been mentioned.
paladinwithasword 12-01-05, 01:02 AM	I apologize if someone has already mentioned something similar, but why don't you simply state a house rule that polearm can be use in combat as a improvised weapon (appyling a -4 penalty to attack) that deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage (same as a quarterstaff). This way you can give polearms some versatility, but not disrupt the balance set in place. You could also just make all polearms double weapons that deal damage on one end equal to their normal damage, while the other deals quarterstaff damage. This though raises some balance issues, and it makes the quarterstaff itself utterly useless.
SureFoot 12-01-05, 12:14 PM	Ploearms are my favorite type of weapons, and have been for some time. What dissappoints me, though, is that all of current polearms either have reach, and thus are less than ideal for melee combat, or are meant to be thrown. I was thinking about a way to make polearms more useable in a fight. You could have the option of fighting with a polearm as a reach weapon, or using it as a sort of bladed quarterstaff, and using it as a double weapon. It could be a standard action to switch, and maybe it would need a feat. Any thoughts? I've some thoughts for you too. Typically (as most posters have already said), polearms *are* reach weapons--that's what they're for. In RL, they're historically most effective in formations, and against mounted knights (many pole arms got their start as farm implients tied to poles). In game terms, most weapons are either reach weapons, or not reach weapons. Notable exception: spiked chain, which many view as broken and munckinny (my current DM does not allow the weapon). So, if you want a reach weapon, typically you have to "make do" and choose wisely in character build and in combat. You have a few options. * like many posters have said, propose a feat, or set of feats, which allows you to use your pole arm(s) close-up. I tried that with my DM but he woudl not allow them; the non-close combat was a balancing factor for the significant advantage of reach (which is why he banned spiked chain, btw). * your feat selection needs to reflect your combat style. With reach weapons, there are at least a couple must-have feats, and other feats are highly desireable depending on your goals. -Combat Reflexes. You have to get the most out of your reach, so get CR and make Dex a priority. -Spring Attack. I'd argue this is a must-have for a reach weapon wielder. You can make one attack, and unless the enemy tumbles though your threatened area, you make another when he closes--giving you 2 attacks to his 1. -Quick Draw. While I'm not goign to get it for my guisarme-wielder, I can see where this is the simplest option to get some up-close time, so I could see where this would be a must-have for some. -Whirlwind Attack can be very effective with the reach weapon, but it's feat-intensive and difficult to position yourself for (and by the time you get it, you're more likely to want to make multiple attacks on a single opponent than making them divided otu among many). * "special" attacks, like trip and disarm, are great with pole-arms. Picking up improved trip if you've got a tripping pole arm, plus Combat Reflexes, can give you multiple attacks on a single opponent without them being able to attack you back, if you do it right. Won't happen often, particularly with a tactically savvy DM, but it's something ot think about. Using the Disarm attack is great with a pole arm, because you're (typically) not in the opponent's threatened area; you get the +4 due to a 2-handed weapon; and if you succeed you've forced them to do something to be able to attack you; either they have to pick up their primary weapon from the ground (which draws an AoO), or they draw their backup weapon (which is typically inferior)--and in both cases they can't make a full attack, unless tey have Quick Draw. * Tactics. You need to be on the ball, but if you are, you can set up some cool stuff with your reach. example: you can attack an opponent even if an ally is in the way (albiet with the -4 cover penalty), potentially opening up good tactical situations. You can also flank easier (from three different squares on the other side of the opponent rather than only one), for which your rogue will be thankful. Basically, you need to be even more aware of your battlefield and your own movement potential--and those of yoru allies--than usual when you have a reach weapon. * Magic. Use magic items/allies spells to increase your effectiveness. -Enlarge. Your reach becomes effing SCARY when you're enlarged. At 50 gp a pop for a potion, it's a good buy. At 750 a pop for a wand, buy one if your arcane caster is willing ot hit you with it before battle. (same goes for Righteous Might, which is better but far more expensive) -Haste. Excellent for your maneuverability--and combined with Spring Attack, it's possible yoru opponent will *have* to charge you in order to attack you--making it easier for you to hit him with your AoO. I'm sure there's more, but hey, I'll let you figure some out!! * other character build stuff. I'd built a guisarme wielder with Improved Trip, then I found the Dervish PrC in Complete Warrior, and I WANTED IT. The Dervish Dance is an awesome thing with a pole arm--giving you your full attack, *and* you can move out of reach. Combine it with Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, and Elusive Target (a feat also from CW) and . . . booyah. So, instead of thinking about how to make your weapon's weaknesses stronger, think about how to make its *strengths* stronger, or to simply overcome the weaknesses in other ways. Because making a weak thing a little stronger is only slightly less weak.
lord_blackfang 12-01-05, 01:28 PM	If you want to use a reaach weapon be not be helpless at close range, take the Quick Draw feat and carry a backup weapon. Or save a feat slot and just wear armour spikes.
pvrhye 12-01-05, 06:04 PM	"Tactics. You need to be on the ball, but if you are, you can set up some cool stuff with your reach. example: you can attack an opponent even if an ally is in the way (albiet with the -4 cover penalty), potentially opening up good tactical situations. You can also flank easier (from three different squares on the other side of the opponent rather than only one), for which your rogue will be thankful. Basically, you need to be even more aware of your battlefield and your own movement potential--and those of yoru allies--than usual when you have a reach weapon." There's an exotic weapon master ability that helps here.