Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ethan 11-28-04, 07:04 PM	I just got started on D&D a few weeks ago and had a few questions in regards to combat... (a) Armor Class Is there any other way to raise the armor class of the normal races (elf, dwarf, human, etc.) besides actual armor, shields, dex modifiers, and random feats such as Dodge? I know there is magical armor, but having a +30 chainmail just so my characters can be on the level of the monsters seems a little cheap. (b) Multiple Attacks In the Player's Handbook, it shows the Fighter class gaining a second attack at level 6. After studying the increase I noticed that the fighter's additional attack came after every 6 base attack increases. I was wondering if a level 1 fighter would recieve a second attack at level 1 if he or she had a base attack bonus of +6. (c) Magical Armor and Weapons Is any weapon or armor with a "+#" in the title magical? If so, do the weapons simply increase damage and attack and the armor simply increase the AC bonus? (d) Two-weapon Fighting If a fighter uses two weapons and is enititled to his or her second attack, how do I factor in the off-hand weapon? (e) Masterwork Weapons Can I have a +2 Masterwork Longsword? If so, since masterwork weapons only add to the attack bonus, would the additional bonus of the magical component make the total bonus for attack a +3 and the damage bonus a +2?
gbnogkfs 11-28-04, 07:21 PM	a) spells; and +30 chainmails are not cheap at all b) you are confising Attack Bonus with Base Attack Bonus. The second is given by class and level; the first is the sum of the second and all modifiers (ability score, enhancement bonus from weapon, circumstance modifier, etc...). You get another attack with a penalty of -5 if your Base Attack Bonus is +6 or more, a third attack at -10 if BAB is +11 or more, and a forth at -15 if your BAB is +16 or more. c) yes, they are magical; yes: weapon bonus=attack and damage armor bonus=AC d) you sum all the modifiers. normal penalty when fighting with two weapons for an attack with primary hand is -6, and for off-hand is -10, numbers which have to be added to all other modifiers from ability score, weapon, etc... You can lower the penalty of two weapon fighting using the TWF feat and/or using a light weapon in your off-hand. e) No. Masterwork add +1 to attacks and that's it. You don't sum up bonus from masterwork weapon and magic weapon because they both are an "enhancement" bonus, and having the same name makes them non-stackable (also, note that all magic weapons are masterwork)
BloodGod 11-28-04, 07:36 PM	Wondrous Items and Natural Armor increase Armor Class. ie Ring of Protection/ Amulet of Natural Armor/ Bracers of Armor (nonstackable with actual armor)/so on. -BG
Ethan 11-28-04, 07:39 PM	All sound good except for (a). Let's say nobody in the party has any spells that boost AC or everyone that did dies off. If a level 16 adventurer is wearing a breastplate and a heavy steel shield, has a DEX bonus of +3 or more, and has the Dodge feat...that would bring his armor class to a mere 20 versus a single opponent. Now lets say this opponent happens to be an Ice Devil (Spear +20 melee or claw +19 melee. That would mean that the adventurer would be hit by the devil's spear every time it attacked(DM wins ties). This doesn't at all seem fair. And by cheap in my last post I meant it didn't seem realistic for the party to continually come upon stronger and stronger armor. So, my question is.... Will the max armor class for an adventurer never rise higher then 20 if he or she isn't using spells or wearing non-magical armor?
Negeta 11-28-04, 08:32 PM	All sound good except for (a). Let's say nobody in the party has any spells that boost AC or everyone that did dies off. If a level 16 adventurer is wearing a breastplate and a heavy steel shield, has a DEX bonus of +3 or more, and has the Dodge feat...that would bring his armor class to a mere 20 versus a single opponent. Now lets say this opponent happens to be an Ice Devil (Spear +20 melee or claw +19 melee. That would mean that the adventurer would be hit by the devil's spear every time it attacked(DM wins ties). This doesn't at all seem fair. And by cheap in my last post I meant it didn't seem realistic for the party to continually come upon stronger and stronger armor. So, my question is.... Will the max armor class for an adventurer never rise higher then 20 if he or she isn't using spells or wearing non-magical armor? Your AC may not get too high without magical armor. But by lvl 16, a fighter would no doubt have decent magical armor. If he had only a +3 heavy steel shield and +3 breastplate plus a +2 ring of protection, and maybe a +2 amulet of natural armor as well as having the Dodge feat and a +3 Dex bonus, he'd be at AC 31 (10 + 5 shield + 8 armor + 2 deflection + 2 natural armor + 1 Dodge + 3 Dex). And then, the Ice Devil would hit about 50% of the time. The use of magical items is expected, and even needed. Many creatures have damage reduction that only magic can get through.
Zherog 11-28-04, 09:27 PM	I just got started on D&D a few weeks ago and had a few questions in regards to combat... (a) Armor Class Is there any other way to raise the armor class of the normal races (elf, dwarf, human, etc.) besides actual armor, shields, dex modifiers, and random feats such as Dodge? I know there is magical armor, but having a +30 chainmail just so my characters can be on the level of the monsters seems a little cheap. Been covered fairly well. Deflection Bonus(ring of protection and some spells) and Natural Armor bonus (barkskin spell or amulet of natural armor are the most likely) are the easiest ways. (b) Multiple Attacks In the Player's Handbook, it shows the Fighter class gaining a second attack at level 6. After studying the increase I noticed that the fighter's additional attack came after every 6 base attack increases. I was wondering if a level 1 fighter would recieve a second attack at level 1 if he or she had a base attack bonus of +6. gbnogkfs answered well. Basically, a first level fighter's BAB is always one- regardless of what he adds to it. Even if he has a 20 strength (+5 mod) and the Weapon Focus feat, his BAB is still 1 - though his Attack Bonus is +7. (c) Magical Armor and Weapons Is any weapon or armor with a "+#" in the title magical? If so, do the weapons simply increase damage and attack and the armor simply increase the AC bonus? Yes, those are magical. For example, a +4 Longsword is magical; it confers a +4 bonus to attack and damage rolls. The damage bonus multiplies on a critical hit. (d) Two-weapon Fighting If a fighter uses two weapons and is enititled to his or her second attack, how do I factor in the off-hand weapon? Let's ignore everything other than BAB. Take a 6th level fighter with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. His BAB is +6/+1. If he opts to fight with both weapons, he would attack at +4/+4/-2. (e) Masterwork Weapons Can I have a +2 Masterwork Longsword? If so, since masterwork weapons only add to the attack bonus, would the additional bonus of the magical component make the total bonus for attack a +3 and the damage bonus a +2? No - the bonus from magic and the bonus from being masterwork are both enhancement bonuses. Bonuses of the same name don't stack, they overlap. Again, gbnogkfs gave you a complete answer - just restating what he already said.
KangTheCallipygian 11-29-04, 02:12 PM	Ethan, you asked "if a level 1 fighter would recieve a second attack at level 1 if he or she had a base attack bonus of +6". By "at level 1," I believe the other posters who replied here assumed you meant a PC of first character level, and if that's what you meant, they are correct; such a character could never have a +6 BAB. If, on the other hand, that second "level 1" was just an unintended redundancy, possibly tied to your being new to the game and thus unfamiliar with some of the technical terms, and you only meant to specify that the PC has only one level as a fighter, then the possibilities open up a little. A character with one level of fighter would indeed get an extra attack if they had a +6 total BAB, as would a member of any other class or classes who has a +6 or better BAB, regardless of level. This requires multiclassing, as no single class gets a +6 BAB at 1st level. If they already had a +5 BAB from other class levels before they took that 1st level in the fighter class, then taking that fighter level would bring their total BAB up to +6. For instance, suppose a 5th level barbarian (BAB +5) with no other class levels gains enough experience to go up a level. If she decides to multiclass and takes a level of fighter, the fighter's 1st level +1 BAB adds to their existing BAB of +5 (from the barbarian levels), to give them a +6 total BAB. They are now able to make that extra attack. At this point, they are a 5th level barbarian/1st level fighter. They also are of 6th character level. The only other thing I have to add is that composite bows' rules use "+_" when referring to the amount of the wielder's strength bonus the bow is built to allow its user to deal as damage on a successful hit. This alone does not mean the bow is magical; a composite longbow with a +2 strength bonus to damage is not a magical bow, whereas a +2 composite longbow is magical, but only has (the default) +0 strength bonus to damage. Unlikely to come up often, but it can be an important distinction at times. Don't let the terminology throw you, though; it'll all become clear with enough game experience and a thorough reading of the rules. Hope that helped some. Kang
Nom 11-29-04, 05:36 PM	Now lets say this opponent happens to be an Ice Devil (Spear +20 melee or claw +19 melee. That would mean that the adventurer would be hit by the devil's spear every time it attacked(DM wins ties). This doesn't at all seem fair.An Ice Devil is CR 13, so it will be quite a while before PCs should be encountering them (and not immediately running). That said, attack bonus goes up quicker than AC. At higher levels, it's not so much a matter of not getting hit as having the hit points to survive it and the AC to make sure you don't get hit with too many iterative attacks. At level 2, an AC greater than 20 is relatively easy. Full plate (AC 8) +1 Dex +2 heavy shield = 21. That's without any magic.
JmX 11-30-04, 10:55 AM	Like the Nom says, low level characters should not be fighting dragons, demons or demi-gods. You have to build your adventures around the level of your characters, not just throw them in with the big boys. I played in a game where the nearest landmark to our village was Vale Necros. It sounded tempting and it seemed to be the closest place to cut our teeth as adventurers. But everytime we went in, we had to come running right back out. It was only after several sessions of severe character mutilation that the DM said, haven't you guys figured out you are not supposed to go in there? Don't do that. Start out your characters defending town agains Kobold bandits and work your way up from there. Maybe there should be a list of Monsters arranged by CR.
Bane 11-30-04, 12:16 PM	At the back of the Monster Manual, there is a list of creatures arranged by CR. Edit: Oh yeah, welcome to the game.
Zherog 11-30-04, 12:16 PM	Excellent point, Kang. Thanks. :)