A Player unintentionaly killed his friend with a rock [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Player unintentionaly killed his friend with a rock [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gorlick_Da_Consumer
03-12-07, 12:36 PM the rock, you find them everyware, so when u through them they act as progectials (pardon my spelling) i have it set as 1d2 damage with a -1 on ranged for it not being balenced.

So Matt through a rock at ryan cause he took his sweet time pulling a saber cat thing of him. rolled a 20 so that was an auto hit, then he rolled for critical, and he got another 20, so auto crit now death threat, then he totaled with a 17 (12+6ranged-1) to hit ryan whos ACwas 17

so he died lol
but i would like to hear from you cause i think thats kind of not posible
maby only alow subduel or it have no crit?
jaelis
03-12-07, 12:39 PM "Death threats" after a successful crit are a house rule. And a terrible one, in my opinion.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer
03-12-07, 12:43 PM right but i'm thinking that there shouldnt be a crit or maby it should be subduel cause its an ordanery rock, aginst armor
jaelis
03-12-07, 12:47 PM Why? If you let any weapon threaten death, why are you drawing the line at a rock? A well thrown rock can easily kill someone in real life.

You could say that the death threat thing doesn't apply to improvised weapon in general. Then you wouldn't have to worry about sticks either.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer
03-12-07, 12:50 PM cause if i throw a rock at my friend i'm perty sure i couldnt kill him. the stone in question is a common on like that u you would use in a sling so thats why i was asking so he sould die then? cause it seems a little to potent for a small rock, were with a sling it aclererats the stone to deadly speeds
Gorlick_Da_Consumer
03-12-07, 12:51 PM yet the no crit to improviesd weapons sounds good
jacobi289
03-12-07, 12:52 PM You can only crit if you want to. ie, no unintentional crits

Did the guy throwing the rock carefully aim at the victim's eye socket, and then hurl the most powerful throw he had ever done on accident? I don't think so.

Critting takes effort, it's not just something that happens. You shouldn't have forced him to back the possible crits up unless he wanted to.

That being said, why did the player want to harm the other person? An attack roll represents an honest effort to cause harm, if he just wanted to bug someone he should have brought the point up.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer
03-12-07, 12:58 PM that sounds good, yea if i was to throw a rock just to be a bit meen, i wouldnt try to do damage, yet these are evil caricters so i dint know. the no unintentional crits sounds like it would be a set thing, i just didnt find anything in the PH about it.
Naderion
03-12-07, 01:01 PM A natural 20 means, that the characters aim was exceptionally good and he hit exactly where he intended to and how he wanted. If he wated to do maximum harm, it would have been a critical hit.
If he meant not to hurt him, a natural 20 would mean, that his trow was so good, that there was no danger for the friend being hit.
Someone
03-12-07, 01:10 PM Oh, you mean a PC unintentionally killed his PC friend. If your players were the ones throwing rocks at each other and one them died, I would have expected you to be a lot more upset.

But as the others have said- you included the 20/20/confirm auto-kill, so now you have to deal with the consequences.
Otherguy
03-12-07, 01:12 PM Combat rules assume that you're doing your damnedest, that's why the SRD doesn't include called shots. If you want to hold back, then there shouldn't be any damage. A Major League pitcher doesn't miss just because he doesn't want to throw a fastball.
Kusari_Gamer
03-12-07, 01:23 PM Wow, I pretty much disagree with just about every post.

Yes, you could easily kill someone with a small rock if it hits in the right place.

Yes, you still crit when you don't intend to. I'm not saying that's a rule...it's just stupid otherwise. Accidents happen and people die all the time because of them. A critical is not so much a wonderful swing on your part...it is the weapon striking a vital spot.

That's what you get for having attacks that death threat. Sometimes...just sometimes...death happens. It's called lethal damage for a reason. It's not for making friends.

That's why there is a mechanic for nonlethal damage.
UAMDB
03-12-07, 01:26 PM A rock, even a small one, can kill someone. If the rock was to hit someone in the temple then it could kill them almost instantly. Hit them in the neck, and crush the windpipe, dead. Actually it does not need to crush the windpipe. The muscle and tissue around the neck is very sensitive. It can begin to swell up and force the throth to close. If you have the rules for instant death, then you should live by them. After all it was not you that throw the rock at the PC.
SolenVlos
03-12-07, 01:29 PM In my group, when you confirm a threat with another threat, and confirm this second threat, increase the multiplier by 1;

if it's yet another threat, keep increasing by 1 every time.

seems powerful, but only happened 2 or 3 times in my 5 years-old group. (keep in mind we very seldonly play more than twice a month)
The_sleeper1
03-12-07, 01:37 PM I woulod sudgest ditching the rules for insta death, there over powering and unbalanced, a seris of 20's would let low level PC's beat something way more powerful then they should.

If you fight 10 fights per level and the fighter gets attacked 10 times for each fight they have about a 50% chance to insta die by level 4 and every 4 levels.
mugguod
03-12-07, 02:28 PM ..i have it set as 1d2 damage with a -1 on ranged for it not being balenced...
then he totaled with a 17 (12+6ranged-1) to hit ryan whos ACwas 17

I'm having trouble following your math for the damage: the rock does 1d2-1 damage, so that's either 1 point automatic, or randomly 0 or 1 point damage? I guess "6ranged-1" means the rock has a x3 crit? Where did the 12 come from? Did the rock thrower have +4 Strength?

The rock thrower, could have voluntarily not included his strength bonus for damage (just as a rogue could voluntarily leave off sneak attack bonus). But I wouldn't rule that he could voluntarily negate a natural 20 (crit). If he ment to inflict a small amount of damage to the other player to express his displeasure, and accidentally hit a vital spot seems like a chance he is taking by throwing the rock. But, unless his character had seriously lost his temper, he probably wouldn't have thrown the rock as hard as he could at an ally.

Anyway, that makes the rock 1d2-1, crit x3, max of 3 points damage.
The_sleeper1
03-12-07, 02:51 PM I'm having trouble following your math for the damage: the rock does 1d2-1 damage, so that's either 1 point automatic, or randomly 0 or 1 point damage? I guess "6ranged-1" means the rock has a x3 crit? Where did the 12 come from? Did the rock thrower have +4 Strength?

The rock thrower, could have voluntarily not included his strength bonus for damage (just as a rogue could voluntarily leave off sneak attack bonus). But I wouldn't rule that he could voluntarily negate a natural 20 (crit). If he ment to inflict a small amount of damage to the other player to express his displeasure, and accidentally hit a vital spot seems like a chance he is taking by throwing the rock. But, unless his character had seriously lost his temper, he probably wouldn't have thrown the rock as hard as he could at an ally.

Anyway, that makes the rock 1d2-1, crit x3, max of 3 points damage.

My understanding is that the damage rolled was not important but that the roll to confirm the death check after the confirm roll was more important.

The 17 he is talking about is the total hit number rolled 12 +6 -1 he the DM gave the attack because it was a rock I think.
ZeronHitaro
03-12-07, 02:57 PM So Matt through a rock at ryan cause he took his sweet time pulling a saber cat thing of him. rolled a 20 so that was an auto hit, then he rolled for critical, and he got another 20, so auto crit now death threat, then he totaled with a 17 (12+6ranged-1) to hit ryan whos ACwas 17

But isn't the Auto Death rule only applicable if the 3rd roll is a natural 20?
Goreg Skullcrusher
03-12-07, 03:14 PM But isn't the Auto Death rule only applicable if the 3rd roll is a natural 20?

No, just two 20's followed by a confirmation roll.

As an aside, anyone who's played Dodgeball can tell you that accidental crits are indeed possible. It's illegal to hit anyone above the shoulders. Despite this, I've seen several people take direct head shots that have floored them.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer
03-12-07, 04:48 PM Well to clarify some things a rock does 1d2 damage (i didnt add strangth because it was just a joke throw like splashing water in someones face.)
it has a -1 ranged cause the rock wasnt shaped to be thrown.
Kusari_Gamer
03-12-07, 05:00 PM (i didnt add strangth because it was just a joke throw like splashing water in someones face.)

It's always funny until someone gets hurt. :noway:
Gorlick_Da_Consumer
03-12-07, 05:04 PM It's always funny until someone gets hurt. :noway:
lol
ZionI
03-12-07, 06:04 PM Accidental hits from rocks are not something to joke about.

My older brother was throwing rocks near me one time, towards my bike tire. He obviously got a natural 20, or a 1, and hit me right on top of the head, splitting it open making 15 stitches in my scalp.......and a large bald spot.......necessary.

So to sum it all up, even a throw that wasn't meant to do any harm can knock the sense outta ya!!!!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gorlick_Da_Consumer 03-12-07, 12:36 PM	the rock, you find them everyware, so when u through them they act as progectials (pardon my spelling) i have it set as 1d2 damage with a -1 on ranged for it not being balenced. So Matt through a rock at ryan cause he took his sweet time pulling a saber cat thing of him. rolled a 20 so that was an auto hit, then he rolled for critical, and he got another 20, so auto crit now death threat, then he totaled with a 17 (12+6ranged-1) to hit ryan whos ACwas 17 so he died lol but i would like to hear from you cause i think thats kind of not posible maby only alow subduel or it have no crit?
jaelis 03-12-07, 12:39 PM	"Death threats" after a successful crit are a house rule. And a terrible one, in my opinion.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer 03-12-07, 12:43 PM	right but i'm thinking that there shouldnt be a crit or maby it should be subduel cause its an ordanery rock, aginst armor
jaelis 03-12-07, 12:47 PM	Why? If you let any weapon threaten death, why are you drawing the line at a rock? A well thrown rock can easily kill someone in real life. You could say that the death threat thing doesn't apply to improvised weapon in general. Then you wouldn't have to worry about sticks either.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer 03-12-07, 12:50 PM	cause if i throw a rock at my friend i'm perty sure i couldnt kill him. the stone in question is a common on like that u you would use in a sling so thats why i was asking so he sould die then? cause it seems a little to potent for a small rock, were with a sling it aclererats the stone to deadly speeds
Gorlick_Da_Consumer 03-12-07, 12:51 PM	yet the no crit to improviesd weapons sounds good
jacobi289 03-12-07, 12:52 PM	You can only crit if you want to. ie, no unintentional crits Did the guy throwing the rock carefully aim at the victim's eye socket, and then hurl the most powerful throw he had ever done on accident? I don't think so. Critting takes effort, it's not just something that happens. You shouldn't have forced him to back the possible crits up unless he wanted to. That being said, why did the player want to harm the other person? An attack roll represents an honest effort to cause harm, if he just wanted to bug someone he should have brought the point up.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer 03-12-07, 12:58 PM	that sounds good, yea if i was to throw a rock just to be a bit meen, i wouldnt try to do damage, yet these are evil caricters so i dint know. the no unintentional crits sounds like it would be a set thing, i just didnt find anything in the PH about it.
Naderion 03-12-07, 01:01 PM	A natural 20 means, that the characters aim was exceptionally good and he hit exactly where he intended to and how he wanted. If he wated to do maximum harm, it would have been a critical hit. If he meant not to hurt him, a natural 20 would mean, that his trow was so good, that there was no danger for the friend being hit.
Someone 03-12-07, 01:10 PM	Oh, you mean a PC unintentionally killed his PC friend. If your players were the ones throwing rocks at each other and one them died, I would have expected you to be a lot more upset. But as the others have said- you included the 20/20/confirm auto-kill, so now you have to deal with the consequences.
Otherguy 03-12-07, 01:12 PM	Combat rules assume that you're doing your damnedest, that's why the SRD doesn't include called shots. If you want to hold back, then there shouldn't be any damage. A Major League pitcher doesn't miss just because he doesn't want to throw a fastball.
Kusari_Gamer 03-12-07, 01:23 PM	Wow, I pretty much disagree with just about every post. Yes, you could easily kill someone with a small rock if it hits in the right place. Yes, you still crit when you don't intend to. I'm not saying that's a rule...it's just stupid otherwise. Accidents happen and people die all the time because of them. A critical is not so much a wonderful swing on your part...it is the weapon striking a vital spot. That's what you get for having attacks that death threat. Sometimes...just sometimes...death happens. It's called lethal damage for a reason. It's not for making friends. That's why there is a mechanic for nonlethal damage.
UAMDB 03-12-07, 01:26 PM	A rock, even a small one, can kill someone. If the rock was to hit someone in the temple then it could kill them almost instantly. Hit them in the neck, and crush the windpipe, dead. Actually it does not need to crush the windpipe. The muscle and tissue around the neck is very sensitive. It can begin to swell up and force the throth to close. If you have the rules for instant death, then you should live by them. After all it was not you that throw the rock at the PC.
SolenVlos 03-12-07, 01:29 PM	In my group, when you confirm a threat with another threat, and confirm this second threat, increase the multiplier by 1; if it's yet another threat, keep increasing by 1 every time. seems powerful, but only happened 2 or 3 times in my 5 years-old group. (keep in mind we very seldonly play more than twice a month)
The_sleeper1 03-12-07, 01:37 PM	I woulod sudgest ditching the rules for insta death, there over powering and unbalanced, a seris of 20's would let low level PC's beat something way more powerful then they should. If you fight 10 fights per level and the fighter gets attacked 10 times for each fight they have about a 50% chance to insta die by level 4 and every 4 levels.
mugguod 03-12-07, 02:28 PM	..i have it set as 1d2 damage with a -1 on ranged for it not being balenced... then he totaled with a 17 (12+6ranged-1) to hit ryan whos ACwas 17 I'm having trouble following your math for the damage: the rock does 1d2-1 damage, so that's either 1 point automatic, or randomly 0 or 1 point damage? I guess "6ranged-1" means the rock has a x3 crit? Where did the 12 come from? Did the rock thrower have +4 Strength? The rock thrower, could have voluntarily not included his strength bonus for damage (just as a rogue could voluntarily leave off sneak attack bonus). But I wouldn't rule that he could voluntarily negate a natural 20 (crit). If he ment to inflict a small amount of damage to the other player to express his displeasure, and accidentally hit a vital spot seems like a chance he is taking by throwing the rock. But, unless his character had seriously lost his temper, he probably wouldn't have thrown the rock as hard as he could at an ally. Anyway, that makes the rock 1d2-1, crit x3, max of 3 points damage.
The_sleeper1 03-12-07, 02:51 PM	I'm having trouble following your math for the damage: the rock does 1d2-1 damage, so that's either 1 point automatic, or randomly 0 or 1 point damage? I guess "6ranged-1" means the rock has a x3 crit? Where did the 12 come from? Did the rock thrower have +4 Strength? The rock thrower, could have voluntarily not included his strength bonus for damage (just as a rogue could voluntarily leave off sneak attack bonus). But I wouldn't rule that he could voluntarily negate a natural 20 (crit). If he ment to inflict a small amount of damage to the other player to express his displeasure, and accidentally hit a vital spot seems like a chance he is taking by throwing the rock. But, unless his character had seriously lost his temper, he probably wouldn't have thrown the rock as hard as he could at an ally. Anyway, that makes the rock 1d2-1, crit x3, max of 3 points damage. My understanding is that the damage rolled was not important but that the roll to confirm the death check after the confirm roll was more important. The 17 he is talking about is the total hit number rolled 12 +6 -1 he the DM gave the attack because it was a rock I think.
ZeronHitaro 03-12-07, 02:57 PM	So Matt through a rock at ryan cause he took his sweet time pulling a saber cat thing of him. rolled a 20 so that was an auto hit, then he rolled for critical, and he got another 20, so auto crit now death threat, then he totaled with a 17 (12+6ranged-1) to hit ryan whos ACwas 17 But isn't the Auto Death rule only applicable if the 3rd roll is a natural 20?
Goreg Skullcrusher 03-12-07, 03:14 PM	But isn't the Auto Death rule only applicable if the 3rd roll is a natural 20? No, just two 20's followed by a confirmation roll. As an aside, anyone who's played Dodgeball can tell you that accidental crits are indeed possible. It's illegal to hit anyone above the shoulders. Despite this, I've seen several people take direct head shots that have floored them.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer 03-12-07, 04:48 PM	Well to clarify some things a rock does 1d2 damage (i didnt add strangth because it was just a joke throw like splashing water in someones face.) it has a -1 ranged cause the rock wasnt shaped to be thrown.
Kusari_Gamer 03-12-07, 05:00 PM	(i didnt add strangth because it was just a joke throw like splashing water in someones face.) It's always funny until someone gets hurt. :noway:
Gorlick_Da_Consumer 03-12-07, 05:04 PM	It's always funny until someone gets hurt. :noway: lol
ZionI 03-12-07, 06:04 PM	Accidental hits from rocks are not something to joke about. My older brother was throwing rocks near me one time, towards my bike tire. He obviously got a natural 20, or a 1, and hit me right on top of the head, splitting it open making 15 stitches in my scalp.......and a large bald spot.......necessary. So to sum it all up, even a throw that wasn't meant to do any harm can knock the sense outta ya!!!!