Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zeigfreid 04-07-05, 05:22 AM	Hi Here is a question about the fundamentals of damage and hit points: If you become dying (your hit points go to -1) from the effect of spell, is this the same as having taken enough damage to drop your character from their current hit points to -1, or is it like being affected by a status effect? More specifically, I used the power Psychic Crush on a Troll, how does the phrase "the subject... collapse[s] unconcious and dying at -1 hit points." interact with the Regeneration quality. I think that the Troll cannot regenerate, since he did not take damage and thus could not treat that damage as subdual damage. My DM thinks that the Troll can regenerate, since he has to have taken damage for his hit points to have dropped to -1. Please save us! The trolls are dead now, regardless, so don't worry about hurting my feelings. z.
Darazel 04-07-05, 06:46 AM	Hmm...the spell alters your current HP, it doesn't do damage to the target. I would agree with you, the troll can not treat this hp-loss as subdual damage.
Vahenir 04-07-05, 06:51 AM	I would say, and this is just my interpretation - that in order to fall to -1 hit points, that represents damage of some kind. How else do you reasonably explain such severe hit point loss? I would say the Troll treats this damage as lethal, and may regenerate as normal for a Troll. Of course, if you can give me a reasonable explaination as to how you drop to -1 hit points without taking any actual damage to your body or mind. Obviously I'm not the DM, I'm just saying I would be flexible about my ruling here, since the description is rather vague. If you could give me a reasonable explanation for how the Troll ended up dying without taking any actual damage - I'd say he can't regenerate. If you couldn't give me an explanation without implying that he took some form of mental or physical abuse - I'd say he regenerates as normal from lethal damage.
Zeigfreid 04-07-05, 12:04 PM	Hi DND is generally pretty explicit, I was looking for a rules call rather than opinion. Is there some Q&A forum I can go to that is full of nut-bag rules-masters? Regeneration doesn't heal lethal damage, does it, it heals non-lethal damage. Neh? z.
Darazel 04-07-05, 12:42 PM	You are right, Regeneration only heals subdual damage. It has no special effect on lethal damage. If the ability sets your hp to -1 it is unimportant if you have regeneration, damage reduction, energy resistance or something else. Your hp are simply set to -1, as an effect of the ability. The troll is unconscious and dying. (By the way, I don't know the ability Psychic Crush, but thats the way it works, referring to your quote. It does NOT deal damage. It changes your HP. Thats something different.) Of course, if you can give me a reasonable explaination as to how you drop to -1 hit points without taking any actual damage to your body or mind. Its magic. Not a spell, but I think the ability is for sure (Su). Do not ask why, just accept it.
Vahenir 04-07-05, 09:07 PM	Oh yeah, Regeneration doesn't heal lethal damage. Its magic. Not a spell, but I think the ability is for sure (Su). Do not ask why, just accept it. Smite is a Supernatural ability that causes damage. Magical damage.. but damage nonetheless. The fact is, in my opinion, if you've lost hit points - you've taken damage of some kind.
Nuntius128 04-07-05, 11:28 PM	Its damage, but in a way, its an unnamed amount of damage, because while taking anything affected to -1 HP, it doesn't do the same amount of damage each time. But they're still immune to lethal damage, short of fire or acid, so I think it would just knock em out, as subdual damage does to anyone else.
Zeigfreid 04-08-05, 06:57 PM	Hi Answer: Lethal damage is the most common way that a character's hit points can change, but not the only way. All that lethal damage does is tell the game to lower your hit points. It is the way that an attack translates into hit point loss, and it is affected by damage reduction, and such. Lethal damage does not accrue on your character sheet, and thus cannot be removed from your character sheet. Healing does not remove damage, it changes your hit point total in a different way. The power Psychic Crush does not instruct the game to deal your character lethal damage, so no lethal damage occurs. Regeneration does not remove lethal damage, because there is no such <i>thing</i> as lethal damage: it is just an instruction that the games gives you, telling you to reduce your hit points. Regeneration tells the game to treat lethal damage dealt to this creature as though it were non-lethal damage. Non-lethal damage really is an object, it is something that your character accrues, and has no effect on your hit point total. It is recorded seperately, and regeneration removes lethal damage at a rate. *** Remember, DND can be played on computers now, so there is no room for opinion. Ha! I love saying things like that. z. PS also, thanks to Darazel for the info that led me to my understanding!