A question on two handers and off hand attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

A question on two handers and off hand attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
wannabe_mage
12-05-07, 03:34 AM This question is based on the fact that I can use only core material to create a character.

If I were to make a character wielding a greatsword in two hands, would I be able to use my armor spikes for an off hand attack even though both my hands were occupied?

The reason for asking this is that I have found no evidence in the PHB suggesting this is not possible. On the other hand this obviously isn't mentioned as being an option anywhere either. Without anything more substantial than this, my DM isn't prepared to allow it.

Any thoughts on this?
True_Paladin
12-05-07, 03:43 AM Short answer: no.

Slightly longer answer: reread the PHB description of armour spikes. I don't have my books, but you'll find that the armour spikes can only be used in a grapple (in which case you can't use that 2-handed sword).
Fireclave
12-05-07, 03:48 AM Short Answer: Yes. You can explictly make off-hand attacks with armor spikes.

Armor Spikes

You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a -4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.)

Of course, you'll still take the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting, but you probably already knew that.
wannabe_mage
12-05-07, 03:54 AM Short Answer: Yes. You can explictly make off-hand attacks with armor spikes.

Of course, you'll still take the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting, but you probably already knew that.

Thanks, this brings me closer to being able to convince my DM. However, I'm still at loss as to whether an off hand attack can be used in conjunction with an attack with a weapon occupying both hands. Or am I missing something from the quoted text?
True_Paladin
12-05-07, 04:02 AM Having re-read the entry on the SRD, it appears you can use the spikes to make an off-hand attack. It doesn't matter that you are armed with an 2-H weapon, the spikes are the off hand. But as Firecleave said, be aware of the TWF penalties (treat the spikes as light).
wannabe_mage
12-05-07, 04:19 AM Having re-read the entry on the SRD, it appears you can use the spikes to make an off-hand attack. It doesn't matter that you are armed with an 2-H weapon, the spikes are the off hand. But as Firecleave said, be aware of the TWF penalties (treat the spikes as light).

Thanks guys. I'll try my luck at convincing my DM.
runestar
12-05-07, 06:45 AM If you want more ammo, this very question is covered on page 51 of the FAQ.:)

It is a fairly suboptimal means of attack though, but whatever floats your boat.:D
wannabe_mage
12-05-07, 08:16 AM If you want more ammo, this very question is covered on page 51 of the FAQ.:)

It is a fairly suboptimal means of attack though, but whatever floats your boat.:D

Thanks man.

Yea, I know. However, between having to make a non-tripping fighter and being restricted to core material only, I figured I might as well try to tweak the stupid-greatsword-wielding-power-attacking-fighter into something remotely fun to play :)
ObscureInfo
12-05-07, 12:29 PM Try Sunder.

With my heavy-armored, two-handed, greatsword swinging fighter, I enjoy the occasional sundering of an opponent's shield or weapon. Not too often or you risk destroying some loot, but especially against lizard men and other savage humanoids. Their stuff is usually crap, anyway. (as far as reselling is concerned)

Also, what party really strips their opponents of their armor and puts it on a cart to haul back to the local armorer to try to resell?? Usually, it is only the occasional weapon or shield or armor that 'catches your eye' is salvaged. Or magical stuff. (and magical stuff is harder to sunder, anyway)
mvincent
12-05-07, 01:19 PM this very question is covered on page 51 of the FAQ.:)QFT:
"you can use armor spikes as either a primary light
weapon or as an off-hand light weapon, even if you’re using a
shield or using a two-handed weapon."
Tony Vargas
12-05-07, 02:51 PM I figured I might as well try to tweak the stupid-greatsword-wielding-power-attacking-fighter into something remotely fun to play :) You might consider an unarmed strike instead of armor spikes, if you're planning on power attacking a lot. Unarmed strike is light, but takes power attack bonuses. You can take up to 4 monk levels while losing only 1 BAB, or you can get a monk's belt, later, and use armor spikes for now.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wannabe_mage 12-05-07, 03:34 AM	This question is based on the fact that I can use only core material to create a character. If I were to make a character wielding a greatsword in two hands, would I be able to use my armor spikes for an off hand attack even though both my hands were occupied? The reason for asking this is that I have found no evidence in the PHB suggesting this is not possible. On the other hand this obviously isn't mentioned as being an option anywhere either. Without anything more substantial than this, my DM isn't prepared to allow it. Any thoughts on this?
True_Paladin 12-05-07, 03:43 AM	Short answer: no. Slightly longer answer: reread the PHB description of armour spikes. I don't have my books, but you'll find that the armour spikes can only be used in a grapple (in which case you can't use that 2-handed sword).
Fireclave 12-05-07, 03:48 AM	Short Answer: Yes. You can explictly make off-hand attacks with armor spikes. Armor Spikes You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a -4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) Of course, you'll still take the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting, but you probably already knew that.
wannabe_mage 12-05-07, 03:54 AM	Short Answer: Yes. You can explictly make off-hand attacks with armor spikes. Of course, you'll still take the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting, but you probably already knew that. Thanks, this brings me closer to being able to convince my DM. However, I'm still at loss as to whether an off hand attack can be used in conjunction with an attack with a weapon occupying both hands. Or am I missing something from the quoted text?
True_Paladin 12-05-07, 04:02 AM	Having re-read the entry on the SRD, it appears you can use the spikes to make an off-hand attack. It doesn't matter that you are armed with an 2-H weapon, the spikes are the off hand. But as Firecleave said, be aware of the TWF penalties (treat the spikes as light).
wannabe_mage 12-05-07, 04:19 AM	Having re-read the entry on the SRD, it appears you can use the spikes to make an off-hand attack. It doesn't matter that you are armed with an 2-H weapon, the spikes are the off hand. But as Firecleave said, be aware of the TWF penalties (treat the spikes as light). Thanks guys. I'll try my luck at convincing my DM.
runestar 12-05-07, 06:45 AM	If you want more ammo, this very question is covered on page 51 of the FAQ.:) It is a fairly suboptimal means of attack though, but whatever floats your boat.:D
wannabe_mage 12-05-07, 08:16 AM	If you want more ammo, this very question is covered on page 51 of the FAQ.:) It is a fairly suboptimal means of attack though, but whatever floats your boat.:D Thanks man. Yea, I know. However, between having to make a non-tripping fighter and being restricted to core material only, I figured I might as well try to tweak the stupid-greatsword-wielding-power-attacking-fighter into something remotely fun to play :)
ObscureInfo 12-05-07, 12:29 PM	Try Sunder. With my heavy-armored, two-handed, greatsword swinging fighter, I enjoy the occasional sundering of an opponent's shield or weapon. Not too often or you risk destroying some loot, but especially against lizard men and other savage humanoids. Their stuff is usually crap, anyway. (as far as reselling is concerned) Also, what party really strips their opponents of their armor and puts it on a cart to haul back to the local armorer to try to resell?? Usually, it is only the occasional weapon or shield or armor that 'catches your eye' is salvaged. Or magical stuff. (and magical stuff is harder to sunder, anyway)
mvincent 12-05-07, 01:19 PM	this very question is covered on page 51 of the FAQ.:)QFT: "you can use armor spikes as either a primary light weapon or as an off-hand light weapon, even if you’re using a shield or using a two-handed weapon."
Tony Vargas 12-05-07, 02:51 PM	I figured I might as well try to tweak the stupid-greatsword-wielding-power-attacking-fighter into something remotely fun to play :) You might consider an unarmed strike instead of armor spikes, if you're planning on power attacking a lot. Unarmed strike is light, but takes power attack bonuses. You can take up to 4 monk levels while losing only 1 BAB, or you can get a monk's belt, later, and use armor spikes for now.