A Quick Question about Rifles [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Quick Question about Rifles [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darkfire_Games
12-27-07, 06:26 PM Alright, I know the DMG has rules and stats for rifles, but I only have the 3.0 DMG, and haven't seen the updated rules for rifles. So, I thought I'd just make it up (I can't find them in Open Source Websites either.)

Pistols hold six bullets, but can only be fired once per round without the help of Feats; it is a full-round action to reload a pistol. Rifles hold one bullet, and must be reloaded after that. It only takes a standard action to reload a rifle.

Cost DMG(S) DMG(M) Critical Range Increment Weight Type
Exotic Weapon (Firearm) -- Ranged
Pistol 175 gp 1d6 1d8 x3 125 ft. 3 lbs. Piercing
Rifle 300 gp 2d4 2d6 x3 200 ft. 5 lbs. Piercing

Pistol 15 gp --- --- --- ----- 3 lbs. ---
Bullets (20)

Rifle 20 gp --- --- --- ----- 3 lbs. ---
Bullets (20)
Thor_Axe
12-28-07, 06:19 AM And what is the question you have?
Tema69
12-28-07, 07:22 AM By Pistols, do you mean revolvers?
A renaissance musket (according to the 3.5 DMG) is more or less what you have there. The pistol is a bit underpowered (again, according to the 3.5 DMG)... Have a look at this thread for some cool firearms rules: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=774496 .
BruceLeeroy
12-28-07, 07:58 AM what kind of rifle takes a standard action to reload?

A muzzle loader takes a full round. A bolt-action might take a move. A lever action would be free.

Think about the amount of effort in drawing an arrow, nocking it and drawing the bow. In that amount of time you could easily cycle a lever action. A bolt-action might take a hair longer, without training (a feat).
1 ton ghost
12-28-07, 01:31 PM you talking revolver, break-action, semi-automatic pistol?
assuming a Full-Rnd action for a muzzle loader (musket or long rifle) is incredibly generous too. there's just no damn way, unless you were on speed, had an assistant, etc., and even then...
just watch any Civil/Revolutionary War exerpt; you're taking it out of firing position (stock down), fetching your horn (powder) or packet thereof, a wad of cloth/what have you, the shot itself, then you gotta' retrieve the rod (a move action itself), jam it all down the smooth bore correctly, remove the rod (this is hilarious when they don't), put some powder in the pan or a cap, then ready the rifle again, and then and only then are you ready. forget the rate of fire for standard infantry, conscripts, not veterans anyway. you'd be hard pressed to get 3/min i'm guessing.
i'm guessing you were referencing a modern rifle, presumably one w/ a magazine/clip, yes?
the rules and all for firearms are daffy to begin w/. ranges seem off, attack, everything is innacurrate. i mean, wasn't the benefit of a high powered projectile the ability to punch through thin metal (armor)? ain't no kevlar i know of in Faerun...
AngryJake
12-28-07, 01:43 PM 2d8 for the rifle, 2d6 for the pistol.
Darkfire_Games
12-28-07, 04:07 PM A guy goes to sleep, and wakes up the next day to find 5 replies. Eep...

Sorry for not clarifying the question. The Question was, the way I presented the rifle and pistol, are they balanced/priced right/not-broken?

Tema69 - Yes, I meant revolver. An old six-shooter, of course. Thanks for the other thread; I've looked it over and I figured since this is a small part of a larger campaign, I'll look to his

Bruce Leeroy - I was thinking the bolt action rifle, but also the fact that they might be able to run around before reloading.

1 ton ghost - For the pistol, I was considering the kind where you had premade bullets, but still had to prep the hammer in order to get the trigger-pull to do anything. As for the rifle, see above.

Angry Jake - Considerable damage, might help balance the scarcity issue I'm building in (only major human population settlements have access to gunsmiths.)

Right, so, fixed table!

Cost DMG(S) DMG(M) Critical Range Increment Weight Type
Exotic Weapon (Firearm) -- Ranged
Revolver 175 gp 2d4 2d6 x3 125 ft. 3 lbs. Piercing
Rifle 300 gp 2d6 2d8 x3 200 ft. 5 lbs. Piercing

Revolver 15 gp --- --- --- ----- 3 lbs. ---
Bullets (20)

Rifle 20 gp --- --- --- ----- 3 lbs. ---
Bullets (20)

One last different question: Search is being a pain and isn't turning up any threads that scream "Steam Powered Weaponry". You guys seen any?
Cold Napalm
12-28-07, 04:29 PM Humm d20 modern already has rules for these...but if you don't wanna go look it up in that book, some common sense stuff...umm a light crossbow in real life takes about 10 seconds to load. For game balance, they made this a move(~2 seconds). A heavy crossbow takes 30 seconds to load. For game balance this is a full round(6 seconds). A bow takes about 2 seconds to pull and draw and this is a free action. Now a bolt action rifle can be cycled in 2 seconds and a pistol reloaded in 10 seconds. This should mean free and move...but the offical rules are otherwise.
Tema69
12-29-07, 12:18 PM -Steam Weaponry: Have a look at the Unoficial Item Compendium (in my sig) - there's both a steampowered rifle, gattling gun, and submersible/zeppelin.. And loads of other stuff... ;)
Hope this helps.
Darkfire_Games
12-31-07, 02:31 AM Your sig is only in one of your posts. Is this something new the forums do?
Tema69
12-31-07, 09:44 AM Yeah, I think so. I guess it's to prevent annoyingly large signatures (like mine) to use up too much space... I think only the first post per page gets the sig, although I'm not sure. Your sig also only appears in the OP.
I don't know if it's new, I'm pretty sure it's been like that since I joined...
ravenshrike
12-31-07, 12:03 PM Humm d20 modern already has rules for these
D20 modern also keeps the same damage for 9mm and .45. Modern is clearly not the source to pay attention to.
CryoSilver
12-31-07, 12:12 PM A revolver is not going to have a 125 foot range increment. It'd be closer to 50 feet. Also, what caliber of revolver? 2d6 sounds about right for a .357, maybe even a .44. I'd bump it up to 2d8 for a .454 or a .500 (the .500 has about the same killing power as a 30-06 rifle).

A revolver can be reloaded in about 3 seconds with a speed loader (standard action) or slightly longer with loose ammo (full round action). I can cycle and reload a bolt action rifle in about 2 seconds (move action). A pistol can be reloaded and chambered in 3 seconds, easily.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darkfire_Games 12-27-07, 06:26 PM	Alright, I know the DMG has rules and stats for rifles, but I only have the 3.0 DMG, and haven't seen the updated rules for rifles. So, I thought I'd just make it up (I can't find them in Open Source Websites either.) Pistols hold six bullets, but can only be fired once per round without the help of Feats; it is a full-round action to reload a pistol. Rifles hold one bullet, and must be reloaded after that. It only takes a standard action to reload a rifle. Cost DMG(S) DMG(M) Critical Range Increment Weight Type Exotic Weapon (Firearm) -- Ranged Pistol 175 gp 1d6 1d8 x3 125 ft. 3 lbs. Piercing Rifle 300 gp 2d4 2d6 x3 200 ft. 5 lbs. Piercing Pistol 15 gp --- --- --- ----- 3 lbs. --- Bullets (20) Rifle 20 gp --- --- --- ----- 3 lbs. --- Bullets (20)
Thor_Axe 12-28-07, 06:19 AM	And what is the question you have?
Tema69 12-28-07, 07:22 AM	By Pistols, do you mean revolvers? A renaissance musket (according to the 3.5 DMG) is more or less what you have there. The pistol is a bit underpowered (again, according to the 3.5 DMG)... Have a look at this thread for some cool firearms rules: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=774496 .
BruceLeeroy 12-28-07, 07:58 AM	what kind of rifle takes a standard action to reload? A muzzle loader takes a full round. A bolt-action might take a move. A lever action would be free. Think about the amount of effort in drawing an arrow, nocking it and drawing the bow. In that amount of time you could easily cycle a lever action. A bolt-action might take a hair longer, without training (a feat).
1 ton ghost 12-28-07, 01:31 PM	you talking revolver, break-action, semi-automatic pistol? assuming a Full-Rnd action for a muzzle loader (musket or long rifle) is incredibly generous too. there's just no damn way, unless you were on speed, had an assistant, etc., and even then... just watch any Civil/Revolutionary War exerpt; you're taking it out of firing position (stock down), fetching your horn (powder) or packet thereof, a wad of cloth/what have you, the shot itself, then you gotta' retrieve the rod (a move action itself), jam it all down the smooth bore correctly, remove the rod (this is hilarious when they don't), put some powder in the pan or a cap, then ready the rifle again, and then and only then are you ready. forget the rate of fire for standard infantry, conscripts, not veterans anyway. you'd be hard pressed to get 3/min i'm guessing. i'm guessing you were referencing a modern rifle, presumably one w/ a magazine/clip, yes? the rules and all for firearms are daffy to begin w/. ranges seem off, attack, everything is innacurrate. i mean, wasn't the benefit of a high powered projectile the ability to punch through thin metal (armor)? ain't no kevlar i know of in Faerun...
AngryJake 12-28-07, 01:43 PM	2d8 for the rifle, 2d6 for the pistol.
Darkfire_Games 12-28-07, 04:07 PM	A guy goes to sleep, and wakes up the next day to find 5 replies. Eep... Sorry for not clarifying the question. The Question was, the way I presented the rifle and pistol, are they balanced/priced right/not-broken? Tema69 - Yes, I meant revolver. An old six-shooter, of course. Thanks for the other thread; I've looked it over and I figured since this is a small part of a larger campaign, I'll look to his Bruce Leeroy - I was thinking the bolt action rifle, but also the fact that they might be able to run around before reloading. 1 ton ghost - For the pistol, I was considering the kind where you had premade bullets, but still had to prep the hammer in order to get the trigger-pull to do anything. As for the rifle, see above. Angry Jake - Considerable damage, might help balance the scarcity issue I'm building in (only major human population settlements have access to gunsmiths.) Right, so, fixed table! Cost DMG(S) DMG(M) Critical Range Increment Weight Type Exotic Weapon (Firearm) -- Ranged Revolver 175 gp 2d4 2d6 x3 125 ft. 3 lbs. Piercing Rifle 300 gp 2d6 2d8 x3 200 ft. 5 lbs. Piercing Revolver 15 gp --- --- --- ----- 3 lbs. --- Bullets (20) Rifle 20 gp --- --- --- ----- 3 lbs. --- Bullets (20) One last different question: Search is being a pain and isn't turning up any threads that scream "Steam Powered Weaponry". You guys seen any?
Cold Napalm 12-28-07, 04:29 PM	Humm d20 modern already has rules for these...but if you don't wanna go look it up in that book, some common sense stuff...umm a light crossbow in real life takes about 10 seconds to load. For game balance, they made this a move(~2 seconds). A heavy crossbow takes 30 seconds to load. For game balance this is a full round(6 seconds). A bow takes about 2 seconds to pull and draw and this is a free action. Now a bolt action rifle can be cycled in 2 seconds and a pistol reloaded in 10 seconds. This should mean free and move...but the offical rules are otherwise.
Tema69 12-29-07, 12:18 PM	-Steam Weaponry: Have a look at the Unoficial Item Compendium (in my sig) - there's both a steampowered rifle, gattling gun, and submersible/zeppelin.. And loads of other stuff... ;) Hope this helps.
Darkfire_Games 12-31-07, 02:31 AM	Your sig is only in one of your posts. Is this something new the forums do?
Tema69 12-31-07, 09:44 AM	Yeah, I think so. I guess it's to prevent annoyingly large signatures (like mine) to use up too much space... I think only the first post per page gets the sig, although I'm not sure. Your sig also only appears in the OP. I don't know if it's new, I'm pretty sure it's been like that since I joined...
ravenshrike 12-31-07, 12:03 PM	Humm d20 modern already has rules for these D20 modern also keeps the same damage for 9mm and .45. Modern is clearly not the source to pay attention to.
CryoSilver 12-31-07, 12:12 PM	A revolver is not going to have a 125 foot range increment. It'd be closer to 50 feet. Also, what caliber of revolver? 2d6 sounds about right for a .357, maybe even a .44. I'd bump it up to 2d8 for a .454 or a .500 (the .500 has about the same killing power as a 30-06 rifle). A revolver can be reloaded in about 3 seconds with a speed loader (standard action) or slightly longer with loose ammo (full round action). I can cycle and reload a bolt action rifle in about 2 seconds (move action). A pistol can be reloaded and chambered in 3 seconds, easily.