A Ring of Divine Power [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Ring of Divine Power [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TrinityPower
05-25-06, 08:29 PM I am wondering how much it would cost to buy or Craft a ring that has Divine Power (a 4th level Cleric Spell) as a constant effect. Would it be possable or is such a ring too powerful? I am a crafting n00b so these questions are probaly sorta simple or basic. :)

Thanks for reading in advance.
Seerow
05-25-06, 08:36 PM No.

No.

And again: No.
Vaelan
05-25-06, 08:37 PM It is an epic item. The increase in BAB alone would be worth 200,000 gp and the other effects would put it over the top.
Wolfman1987
05-25-06, 09:13 PM The ring would in fact be an epic item at 224,000 gp. CL 7*4th level spell*2000*4(for continous duration of a rounds/lvl spell). Despite being an epic item I see no reason why it could not be created.
Gilfalas_Elaandrin
05-25-06, 09:22 PM Assuming you create the ring at the minimum level to cast the spell (7th) then your cost to create is:

Use-activated or continuous effect - Spell level × caster level × 2,000gp
Since the base spell has a duration measured in combat rounds the rules state to multiply the above formula's result by 4.

So 4 x 4 x 7 x 2000GP = 224,000 gold Base Market Price and not including the actual ring itself, which needs to be 'mastercraft' quality and appropriate value as stipulated by the GM.

Since the market price is above 200,000 gold pieces this qualifies as an epic magic item according to the creation rules. Therefore it would require the Craft Epic ring feat as well to even attempt.

It would cost 112,000 gold plus the actual cost of the ring to make and 12,240 XP if you were fashioning it yourself.

Good luck with that.
Chrono Nexus
05-25-06, 11:01 PM Sorry, the cost guidelines for continuous function spell effects are misleading. Some spells can be ceated using those tables with no problems, but many create gaping opportunities for a player to rig the game. As always, the DM has the final word.

Edit: Oh, nice avatar, by the way.
Wolfman1987
05-25-06, 11:21 PM You're right gilfalas, I did not think about the craft epic ring aspect. The caster level would be so high the ring would be prohibitively expensive.
aelryinth
05-25-06, 11:30 PM Don't forget the primary rules of making magic items...you first go look for stuff that provides you the same bonuses.

Unfortunately, I couldn't see anything that provided you a +3 bonus to hit and a +3 bonus to damage, universally. That tells me that it's going to be pricey right there.

To be technically correct, the ring would have to provide bonuses greater then +5 to invoke Epic Pricing. Since +3 to hit and +3 to Dmg is effectively a +6 to damage, I'd kick this into Epic Pricing and add on the big cost kicker.

Divine Favor has enough brokenness with Divine feats powering it up. No need to add this as a kicker.

==Aelryinth
Seerow
05-25-06, 11:45 PM He was asking about Divine POWER not FAVOR.

Totally different spells. (And Power is even more broken =P)
sneak_Blast
05-25-06, 11:51 PM Mind you, the spell gives enhancement bonus to STR, so it would not stack with ANY items that give bonuses to strength. Sorry.
Gilfalas_Elaandrin
05-25-06, 11:54 PM Mind you, the spell gives enhancement bonus to STR, so it would not stack with ANY items that give bonuses to strength. Sorry.
Of course with this ring you would not NEED a seperate Str item in any case so you could replace it with something else.
Sledged
05-26-06, 12:12 AM An 8th level runecaster (Player's Guide to Faerun) could craft a rune of Divine Power that can be activated x times per day at a minimum cost of 8400 times the # of charges per day.
Despana
05-26-06, 10:31 AM I'd let someone buy a ring of Divine Power for the appropriate cost of a 4th level continuous spell.

It'd be fun watching them have a BAB of 7 forever. :P
Seerow
05-26-06, 10:34 AM I thought that at first too. But

Calling upon the divine power of your patron, you imbue yourself with strength and skill in combat. Your base attack bonus becomes equal to your character level (which may give you additional attacks), you gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, and you gain 1 temporary hit point per caster level.

Emphasis mine. The BAB isn't limited by caster level. It's the target's character level.
Thelon Fairblade
05-26-06, 11:41 AM I can't wait for tarkin to chime in and smash this, but let's look at this in a better light.

If you are pondering a new item, you should compare the item to existing items *first*, before using the simple CL*SL*2000 pricing (*4 for duration).

The item will give +6 to STR? There's a 36,000 price component

The item will give +1 tempoary hp/lvl? There's a 4,000 price equivalent (+2 CON). (Here's a thought... what happens when those "temporary" hp are gone? Best to just grant +1 hp/lvl.)

The item will increase your BAB to a fighter's BAB? For a cleric, that's a +5 to hit at 20th level, plus the extra bonuses involved with actually *having* an increased BAB (qualification for feats, use of feats like Power Attack, resisting bluffs and grapples, etc.).
+5 to hit: 25,000
Resist Bluffs/Feints at +5: 2500
Resist Grapples at +5: 10,000 (improved Grapple feat)
Qualify for other feats: unknown, call it 100,000 (20k for each plus)

So 36k + 4k + 25k + 2.5k + 10k + 100k = 177.5k. Less than the formula price, right?

Actually, since the benefits don't stack... prices double
100k + 72k + 8k + 5k + 20k = 205k. Okay, still less than 224k. But definately Epic.

And, IIRC, "epic" tacks a 1,000,000 price tag increase, doesn't it?
Seerow
05-26-06, 11:49 AM Nope. "Epic" tacks a 10x marker on. So your 205k ring just went up to 2,050,000.
Witch
05-26-06, 11:51 AM Nope. "Epic" tacks a 10x marker on. So your 205k ring just went up to 2,050,000.
Which is fairly stupid.

"Yeah, my item costs 199.999. If it costs one gold piece more, it's epic, and it actually costs 2.000.000 instead of 200.000"
dragonseth
05-26-06, 12:04 PM Which is fairly stupid.

"Yeah, my item costs 199.999. If it costs one gold piece more, it's epic, and it actually costs 2.000.000 instead of 200.000"
I agree, because I suppose technically, one cannot get a +5, (+5 in special abilities) weapon pre-epic, because it costs 200,xxx gold. I always thought that was stupid, because the price for such a weapon is given in the DMG, not the Epic Level Handbook.
Witch
05-26-06, 12:06 PM And so is the calculation table for homemade items.
Sledged
05-26-06, 12:39 PM what happens when those "temporary" hp are gone?The answer:Temporary Hit Points

Certain effects give a character temporary hit points. When a character gains temporary hit points, note his current hit point total. When the temporary hit points go away the character’s hit points drop to his current hit point total. If the character’s hit points are below his current hit point total at that time, all the temporary hit points have already been lost and the character’s hit point total does not drop further.

When temporary hit points are lost, they cannot be restored as real hit points can be, even by magic.

Increases in Constitution Score and Current Hit Points
An increase in a character’s Constitution score, even a temporary one, can give her more hit points (an effective hit point increase), but these are not temporary hit points. They can be restored and they are not lost first as temporary hit points are.
Gilfalas_Elaandrin
05-26-06, 02:31 PM Nope. "Epic" tacks a 10x marker on. So your 205k ring just went up to 2,050,000.

Yes and no.

Market Price
Use the guidelines for nonepic magic items to determine the market price of an epic magic item, with one addition: If the item gives a bonus beyond the limit allowed in for normal, nonepic magic items, multiply the portion of the market price derived from that characteristic by 10. Some epic characteristics, such as caster level, don’t trigger this multiplier.

Note the bolded and then Italiscised part.

Only if a BONUS or bonus' are beyond what a non epic item would be, to me that means +6 enhancement Weapon bonus or +10 enhancement armor bonus or +8 Constitution bonus or a combination of more than +10 'total pluses' on a weapon or armor and so forth. And even then only the part that would exceed the normal value has it's cost increased by a factor of ten.

In theory of you made a epic item that conforms to all the non epic limitations on plus sizes with the exeption of cost you would not multiply the cost value at all.

For example:
Adamantine Full plate with +5 Enhancement, Heavy Fortification, Greater Fire, Cold, Sonic, Acid & Lighnting Resistance, Greater Shadow and Greater Silent moves would not have any of it's costs increased by a factor of ten since none of the pluses exceed non epic limitations. It would cost a simple 520,150 gold market price and about 50% that to craft. It would, howevre, require the 'Epic Craft Arms and Armor' feat to make though since it's market price exceeds 200,000 gold.

As for creating this ring on the other manners stipulated in this thread (forging each individual bonus from the spell as a seperate power), my only response is why make it overly complicated and overpriced when there is a rule structure to handle exactly what he requested and that rule structure works to balance out the effect already? Additionally there is no magic item effect in the game that automatically gives you a +1 BAB per level and that would have to be guesstimated.

If he jacks up the caster level on the ring to level 10 or 12 and then makes it usable 1-2 times a day it is actually somewhat affordable and totally craftable as a non epic item.

Assuming caster level 12 Effect, 2 x a day it would be:

Spell Level 4 x CL 12 x 1800 gold = 86,400 gold for the spell.
That total divided by 5/2 for 2 charges a day as a command word activated item = 34,560 Gold Market price.

That would be 1382 XP to make and 17,280 gold (not including the mastercrafted ring cost) cost to create with the normal 'Forge Ring' feat. Eminently doable.

That would cast the spell twice a day for 12 rounds a use.
Thelon Fairblade
05-26-06, 02:52 PM Ah, but your solution - and a good one it is - has removed the key thing that makes the OP's ring broken... CONTINUOUS.

A Sword of True Strike (Continuous) is wickedly broken and much maligned. However, a Sword that can be activated for True Strike 5/day is fine, because it has limits, isn't always on, and an action must be spent to activate it.

Likewise, if this ring of Divine Power were simply "activate 5/day" instead of "Continuous", all my objections go away. Continuous means it's there all the time; +12 hp when surprised, +6 STR when suddenly falling off the cliff, +5 BAB when suddenly confronted with a feinting rogue, +5 dodge AC from Combat Expertise at no accuracy cost (the bonus BAB) on round 1, and most importantly, the ability to qualify for PrCs and feats before your normal BAB would allow.
Gilfalas_Elaandrin
05-26-06, 02:53 PM And all of your points Theron, we 100% agree on.

As for qualifying for prestige classes and feats, no one I know who plays 3.5 uses the silly rule that magic items allow you to qualify for such.

EVERYONE I have ever played with says if your character cannot qualify for the class, feat or ability while stark naked, you cannot get it.

Which I think is a pretty sound rule.

I agree, because I suppose technically, one cannot get a +5, (+5 in special abilities) weapon pre-epic, because it costs 200,xxx gold. I

Actually a 200,000 GP Magic Item is NOT epic. A 200,001 GP magic item IS.

And only the pluses that push the cost OVER 200,000 GP cost have their value increased by a factor of 10, not the whole item. Lastly if you look at the epic magic arms and armor tables, that factor of 10 has already been worked into the cost tables.

As long as none of the bonus' on a weapon or armor exceed the limits for non epic weapons (which is basically +5 Enhancement bonus and 10 total pluses of powers) you use the non epic pricing.

Technically that means you can have a +1 blade with 9 pluses of additional abilities and it is totally non epic.
dragonseth
05-26-06, 06:56 PM Actually a 200,000 GP Magic Item is NOT epic. A 200,001 GP magic item IS.
Yeah, but a +10 total effectiveness dagger would be 200,302 would it not?
Thelon Fairblade
05-30-06, 01:35 PM The enchantments cost 200k. the Materials do not figure in the calculation, although they do have to come from somewhere. No one thinks about the cost of the glass vial when they make a 50gp Potion of CLW, and likewise no one worries about the 315 cost of their masterwork longsword when they are paying the 2000gp to have it enchanted. Okay, I think I just contradicted myself. The POINT is that the Epic Pricing rule is only referring to the magic cost -- you can use a 120,000gp "30-carat rainbow diamond set in celestial mithril with planetar-crafted engravings" ring for your 90k ring of regeneration (total cost: 210,0000), but the magic still only costs 90k, and does not violate the Epic Pricing rule.
Seerow
05-30-06, 02:34 PM EVERYONE I have ever played with says if your character cannot qualify for the class, feat or ability while stark naked, you cannot get it.

Except at least in Epic Levels the designers INTEND for +stat magic items to allow qualify for epic feats. Otherwise it could be late 40s before a character could qualify for several feats. (Even with a +5 from tome or wishes, a character with a natural 18 requires 2 levelup points to qualify for most epic feats). I remember seeing this posted somewhere a while back that it was confirmed that the intention was to allow qualifying with magic items, you simply lose the abilities if you lose the magic items that qualify you.
bondious
05-31-06, 02:57 AM In support of the "Over 200,000gp price does not necessarily mean it's Epic" arguement, I offer these:

1) The Airship in "he Shinning South" costs 400k
2) The Weirdstone in "The Player's Guide to Faerun" costs 250k
3) The Mantle Stone of Hyridaan in the same book costs just over 232k

None of these examples require the "Craft Epic Wondrous Item" feat, and only one has a CL of 20, the rest are lower.
_________

I think that 224,000gp is a perfectly acceptable price for this item, and an illustration that the pricing formula can indeed work for new item creation.

As for the "what happens to those temporary HP...I'd say it could be a "per day" type of effect. Pick a time of the day, one that might be associated with the creator's Deity (dawn for Lathander, for instance), and this will be the time each day that the temporary HP refresh themselves. This refreshment process would not grant extra temp HP if any are already left over.

So, using dawn/sunrise as an example, the Ring of Divine Favor would grant (at 7th level caster) 7 temporary hit points, refreshing each day at dawn. These hit points are lost first when damage is taken (as is the rule), and any remaining temporary HP from the ring are lost in and/or overlap as part of the refreshment process.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TrinityPower 05-25-06, 08:29 PM	I am wondering how much it would cost to buy or Craft a ring that has Divine Power (a 4th level Cleric Spell) as a constant effect. Would it be possable or is such a ring too powerful? I am a crafting n00b so these questions are probaly sorta simple or basic. :) Thanks for reading in advance.
Seerow 05-25-06, 08:36 PM	No. No. And again: No.
Vaelan 05-25-06, 08:37 PM	It is an epic item. The increase in BAB alone would be worth 200,000 gp and the other effects would put it over the top.
Wolfman1987 05-25-06, 09:13 PM	The ring would in fact be an epic item at 224,000 gp. CL 74th level spell2000*4(for continous duration of a rounds/lvl spell). Despite being an epic item I see no reason why it could not be created.
Gilfalas_Elaandrin 05-25-06, 09:22 PM	Assuming you create the ring at the minimum level to cast the spell (7th) then your cost to create is: Use-activated or continuous effect - Spell level × caster level × 2,000gp Since the base spell has a duration measured in combat rounds the rules state to multiply the above formula's result by 4. So 4 x 4 x 7 x 2000GP = 224,000 gold Base Market Price and not including the actual ring itself, which needs to be 'mastercraft' quality and appropriate value as stipulated by the GM. Since the market price is above 200,000 gold pieces this qualifies as an epic magic item according to the creation rules. Therefore it would require the Craft Epic ring feat as well to even attempt. It would cost 112,000 gold plus the actual cost of the ring to make and 12,240 XP if you were fashioning it yourself. Good luck with that.
Chrono Nexus 05-25-06, 11:01 PM	Sorry, the cost guidelines for continuous function spell effects are misleading. Some spells can be ceated using those tables with no problems, but many create gaping opportunities for a player to rig the game. As always, the DM has the final word. Edit: Oh, nice avatar, by the way.
Wolfman1987 05-25-06, 11:21 PM	You're right gilfalas, I did not think about the craft epic ring aspect. The caster level would be so high the ring would be prohibitively expensive.
aelryinth 05-25-06, 11:30 PM	Don't forget the primary rules of making magic items...you first go look for stuff that provides you the same bonuses. Unfortunately, I couldn't see anything that provided you a +3 bonus to hit and a +3 bonus to damage, universally. That tells me that it's going to be pricey right there. To be technically correct, the ring would have to provide bonuses greater then +5 to invoke Epic Pricing. Since +3 to hit and +3 to Dmg is effectively a +6 to damage, I'd kick this into Epic Pricing and add on the big cost kicker. Divine Favor has enough brokenness with Divine feats powering it up. No need to add this as a kicker. ==Aelryinth
Seerow 05-25-06, 11:45 PM	He was asking about Divine POWER not FAVOR. Totally different spells. (And Power is even more broken =P)
sneak_Blast 05-25-06, 11:51 PM	Mind you, the spell gives enhancement bonus to STR, so it would not stack with ANY items that give bonuses to strength. Sorry.
Gilfalas_Elaandrin 05-25-06, 11:54 PM	Mind you, the spell gives enhancement bonus to STR, so it would not stack with ANY items that give bonuses to strength. Sorry. Of course with this ring you would not NEED a seperate Str item in any case so you could replace it with something else.
Sledged 05-26-06, 12:12 AM	An 8th level runecaster (Player's Guide to Faerun) could craft a rune of Divine Power that can be activated x times per day at a minimum cost of 8400 times the # of charges per day.
Despana 05-26-06, 10:31 AM	I'd let someone buy a ring of Divine Power for the appropriate cost of a 4th level continuous spell. It'd be fun watching them have a BAB of 7 forever. :P
Seerow 05-26-06, 10:34 AM	I thought that at first too. But Calling upon the divine power of your patron, you imbue yourself with strength and skill in combat. Your base attack bonus becomes equal to your character level (which may give you additional attacks), you gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, and you gain 1 temporary hit point per caster level. Emphasis mine. The BAB isn't limited by caster level. It's the target's character level.
Thelon Fairblade 05-26-06, 11:41 AM	I can't wait for tarkin to chime in and smash this, but let's look at this in a better light. If you are pondering a new item, you should compare the item to existing items first, before using the simple CLSL2000 pricing (4 for duration). The item will give +6 to STR? There's a 36,000 price component The item will give +1 tempoary hp/lvl? There's a 4,000 price equivalent (+2 CON). (Here's a thought... what happens when those "temporary" hp are gone? Best to just grant +1 hp/lvl.) The item will increase your BAB to a fighter's BAB? For a cleric, that's a +5 to hit at 20th level, plus the extra bonuses involved with actually having* an increased BAB (qualification for feats, use of feats like Power Attack, resisting bluffs and grapples, etc.). +5 to hit: 25,000 Resist Bluffs/Feints at +5: 2500 Resist Grapples at +5: 10,000 (improved Grapple feat) Qualify for other feats: unknown, call it 100,000 (20k for each plus) So 36k + 4k + 25k + 2.5k + 10k + 100k = 177.5k. Less than the formula price, right? Actually, since the benefits don't stack... prices double 100k + 72k + 8k + 5k + 20k = 205k. Okay, still less than 224k. But definately Epic. And, IIRC, "epic" tacks a 1,000,000 price tag increase, doesn't it?
Seerow 05-26-06, 11:49 AM	Nope. "Epic" tacks a 10x marker on. So your 205k ring just went up to 2,050,000.
Witch 05-26-06, 11:51 AM	Nope. "Epic" tacks a 10x marker on. So your 205k ring just went up to 2,050,000. Which is fairly stupid. "Yeah, my item costs 199.999. If it costs one gold piece more, it's epic, and it actually costs 2.000.000 instead of 200.000"
dragonseth 05-26-06, 12:04 PM	Which is fairly stupid. "Yeah, my item costs 199.999. If it costs one gold piece more, it's epic, and it actually costs 2.000.000 instead of 200.000" I agree, because I suppose technically, one cannot get a +5, (+5 in special abilities) weapon pre-epic, because it costs 200,xxx gold. I always thought that was stupid, because the price for such a weapon is given in the DMG, not the Epic Level Handbook.
Witch 05-26-06, 12:06 PM	And so is the calculation table for homemade items.
Sledged 05-26-06, 12:39 PM	what happens when those "temporary" hp are gone?The answer:Temporary Hit Points Certain effects give a character temporary hit points. When a character gains temporary hit points, note his current hit point total. When the temporary hit points go away the character’s hit points drop to his current hit point total. If the character’s hit points are below his current hit point total at that time, all the temporary hit points have already been lost and the character’s hit point total does not drop further. When temporary hit points are lost, they cannot be restored as real hit points can be, even by magic. Increases in Constitution Score and Current Hit Points An increase in a character’s Constitution score, even a temporary one, can give her more hit points (an effective hit point increase), but these are not temporary hit points. They can be restored and they are not lost first as temporary hit points are.
Gilfalas_Elaandrin 05-26-06, 02:31 PM	Nope. "Epic" tacks a 10x marker on. So your 205k ring just went up to 2,050,000. Yes and no. Market Price Use the guidelines for nonepic magic items to determine the market price of an epic magic item, with one addition: If the item gives a bonus beyond the limit allowed in for normal, nonepic magic items, multiply the portion of the market price derived from that characteristic by 10. Some epic characteristics, such as caster level, don’t trigger this multiplier. Note the bolded and then Italiscised part. Only if a BONUS or bonus' are beyond what a non epic item would be, to me that means +6 enhancement Weapon bonus or +10 enhancement armor bonus or +8 Constitution bonus or a combination of more than +10 'total pluses' on a weapon or armor and so forth. And even then only the part that would exceed the normal value has it's cost increased by a factor of ten. In theory of you made a epic item that conforms to all the non epic limitations on plus sizes with the exeption of cost you would not multiply the cost value at all. For example: Adamantine Full plate with +5 Enhancement, Heavy Fortification, Greater Fire, Cold, Sonic, Acid & Lighnting Resistance, Greater Shadow and Greater Silent moves would not have any of it's costs increased by a factor of ten since none of the pluses exceed non epic limitations. It would cost a simple 520,150 gold market price and about 50% that to craft. It would, howevre, require the 'Epic Craft Arms and Armor' feat to make though since it's market price exceeds 200,000 gold. As for creating this ring on the other manners stipulated in this thread (forging each individual bonus from the spell as a seperate power), my only response is why make it overly complicated and overpriced when there is a rule structure to handle exactly what he requested and that rule structure works to balance out the effect already? Additionally there is no magic item effect in the game that automatically gives you a +1 BAB per level and that would have to be guesstimated. If he jacks up the caster level on the ring to level 10 or 12 and then makes it usable 1-2 times a day it is actually somewhat affordable and totally craftable as a non epic item. Assuming caster level 12 Effect, 2 x a day it would be: Spell Level 4 x CL 12 x 1800 gold = 86,400 gold for the spell. That total divided by 5/2 for 2 charges a day as a command word activated item = 34,560 Gold Market price. That would be 1382 XP to make and 17,280 gold (not including the mastercrafted ring cost) cost to create with the normal 'Forge Ring' feat. Eminently doable. That would cast the spell twice a day for 12 rounds a use.
Thelon Fairblade 05-26-06, 02:52 PM	Ah, but your solution - and a good one it is - has removed the key thing that makes the OP's ring broken... CONTINUOUS. A Sword of True Strike (Continuous) is wickedly broken and much maligned. However, a Sword that can be activated for True Strike 5/day is fine, because it has limits, isn't always on, and an action must be spent to activate it. Likewise, if this ring of Divine Power were simply "activate 5/day" instead of "Continuous", all my objections go away. Continuous means it's there all the time; +12 hp when surprised, +6 STR when suddenly falling off the cliff, +5 BAB when suddenly confronted with a feinting rogue, +5 dodge AC from Combat Expertise at no accuracy cost (the bonus BAB) on round 1, and most importantly, the ability to qualify for PrCs and feats before your normal BAB would allow.
Gilfalas_Elaandrin 05-26-06, 02:53 PM	And all of your points Theron, we 100% agree on. As for qualifying for prestige classes and feats, no one I know who plays 3.5 uses the silly rule that magic items allow you to qualify for such. EVERYONE I have ever played with says if your character cannot qualify for the class, feat or ability while stark naked, you cannot get it. Which I think is a pretty sound rule. I agree, because I suppose technically, one cannot get a +5, (+5 in special abilities) weapon pre-epic, because it costs 200,xxx gold. I Actually a 200,000 GP Magic Item is NOT epic. A 200,001 GP magic item IS. And only the pluses that push the cost OVER 200,000 GP cost have their value increased by a factor of 10, not the whole item. Lastly if you look at the epic magic arms and armor tables, that factor of 10 has already been worked into the cost tables. As long as none of the bonus' on a weapon or armor exceed the limits for non epic weapons (which is basically +5 Enhancement bonus and 10 total pluses of powers) you use the non epic pricing. Technically that means you can have a +1 blade with 9 pluses of additional abilities and it is totally non epic.
dragonseth 05-26-06, 06:56 PM	Actually a 200,000 GP Magic Item is NOT epic. A 200,001 GP magic item IS. Yeah, but a +10 total effectiveness dagger would be 200,302 would it not?
Thelon Fairblade 05-30-06, 01:35 PM	The enchantments cost 200k. the Materials do not figure in the calculation, although they do have to come from somewhere. No one thinks about the cost of the glass vial when they make a 50gp Potion of CLW, and likewise no one worries about the 315 cost of their masterwork longsword when they are paying the 2000gp to have it enchanted. Okay, I think I just contradicted myself. The POINT is that the Epic Pricing rule is only referring to the magic cost -- you can use a 120,000gp "30-carat rainbow diamond set in celestial mithril with planetar-crafted engravings" ring for your 90k ring of regeneration (total cost: 210,0000), but the magic still only costs 90k, and does not violate the Epic Pricing rule.
Seerow 05-30-06, 02:34 PM	EVERYONE I have ever played with says if your character cannot qualify for the class, feat or ability while stark naked, you cannot get it. Except at least in Epic Levels the designers INTEND for +stat magic items to allow qualify for epic feats. Otherwise it could be late 40s before a character could qualify for several feats. (Even with a +5 from tome or wishes, a character with a natural 18 requires 2 levelup points to qualify for most epic feats). I remember seeing this posted somewhere a while back that it was confirmed that the intention was to allow qualifying with magic items, you simply lose the abilities if you lose the magic items that qualify you.
bondious 05-31-06, 02:57 AM	In support of the "Over 200,000gp price does not necessarily mean it's Epic" arguement, I offer these: 1) The Airship in "he Shinning South" costs 400k 2) The Weirdstone in "The Player's Guide to Faerun" costs 250k 3) The Mantle Stone of Hyridaan in the same book costs just over 232k None of these examples require the "Craft Epic Wondrous Item" feat, and only one has a CL of 20, the rest are lower. _________ I think that 224,000gp is a perfectly acceptable price for this item, and an illustration that the pricing formula can indeed work for new item creation. As for the "what happens to those temporary HP...I'd say it could be a "per day" type of effect. Pick a time of the day, one that might be associated with the creator's Deity (dawn for Lathander, for instance), and this will be the time each day that the temporary HP refresh themselves. This refreshment process would not grant extra temp HP if any are already left over. So, using dawn/sunrise as an example, the Ring of Divine Favor would grant (at 7th level caster) 7 temporary hit points, refreshing each day at dawn. These hit points are lost first when damage is taken (as is the rule), and any remaining temporary HP from the ring are lost in and/or overlap as part of the refreshment process.