Post/Author/DateTime	Post
M.E. Charm 09-13-05, 09:16 PM	I have had this weaponconcept in my head for a while, and I thought this place was the place to suggest a weapon idea (as I have already seen some great 'official' entries for new weapons). I was thinking among the lines of a ring around the wielder's wrist with a chain ending in a wooden or metal trolley-like wheel, like a big yoyo (where you would hold the chain when swinging and pulling, only letting go to grab the wheel again when it comes back). It'd be an Exotic weapon, One-handed with trip and disarm doing 1d8/x2 Bludgeoning damage. What do you think? Is this a balanced weapon?
InkBlot 09-13-05, 09:26 PM	In America (and most English speaking countries) this is called a yoyo. Does the giant yoyo have reach? If it has reach then it would be like a whip with better damage. In my opinion this would be balanced (I think the whip sucks). If the yoyo doesnt have reach then I think it would be underpowered compared to the halberd, which is a martial weapon.
M.E. Charm 09-13-05, 09:30 PM	Then again, it would be more of a replacement for a whip instead of a new weapon. It could have a +2 bonus on Trip and Disarm like the Spiked Chain, as the chain would wrap around the legs or weapon. Would that make up for it? And I'll correct the jojo/yoyo thing, thanks. EDIT: Now I think about it, making it a replacement for the whip isn't that bad. EDIT2: No wait, the +2 bonus on the Spiked Chain comes from the spikes on the chain. D'oh!
primemover003 09-13-05, 09:39 PM	No when I think trolley I think streetcar... I'm guessing you're not talking something that big!!! A Yo-yo might make a good Light exotic weapon that does 1d6 bludgeoning 20/x2, is finessable and would have a +2 to trip and disarm. Two metal plates and some strong wire rather than chain. I don't think reach would suit it though. Might be a little weak for an exotic? Great flavor weapon for a jester though!
chronocrosselite 09-13-05, 09:46 PM	hmm good idea, there were yoyo like wpns used in 16th century Philippines so... its not so far-fetched of an idea
Yanagita Kunio 09-13-05, 09:57 PM	Yoyos started out as a hunting weapon in various Melanesian societies...I think for birds. A "realistic" yoyo would work more like a thrown bludgeoning weapon that returns, but I'd say a fantasy weapon would be more whip like if you wanted. Heck, I always thought those giant shuriken-like yoyos in cartoons and games were neat.
InkBlot 09-14-05, 12:11 AM	Actually, the earliest known yoyos were toys in ancient Greece. (http://www.spintastics.com/HistoryOfYoYo.asp) Dont be fooled by popular myths. Furthermore, neither the whip nor the spiked chain give you a +2 to trip attempts. They merely enable you to make trip attempts with the weapon, rather than with an unarmed strike. The spiked chain doesnt allow you to make trip attempts and give you a +2 to disarm because it has spikes. It does those things because it is flexible. Notice that all the weapons which can trip are either flexible (flail, whip) or have a hook (halberd, sickle). Similarly with weapons which give a +2 to disarm. Now then, lets get to the crunch: Exotic Weapons Dmg (M) Critical Type One-Handed Melee Weapons War yoyo 1d6 x2 Bludgeoning War YoYo: A war yoyo has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe. You can make trip attacks with the yoyo. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the yoyo to avoid being tripped. When using a war yoyo, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails). You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a war yoyo sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you.
Yanagita Kunio 09-14-05, 02:02 AM	I've seen spindle-based clay toys designed to pivot on string pulled out of ground if Harappa, but "yoyo as hunting tool" is a Melanesian device. I wasn't trying to establish absolute primacy but rather functional primacy...the problem is that the phrasing I used is ambiguous.
BeyondFated 09-14-05, 10:40 AM	Didn't Cadderly from the Cleric Quintet weild a yo-yo like weapon known as a spindle-disk? I remember that it was two hard crystal disks connected with a small metal rod with a string. It was good distraction, but not very good at hurting his opponent.
M.E. Charm 09-14-05, 11:14 AM	Exotic Weapons Dmg (M) Critical Type One-Handed Melee Weapons War yoyo 1d6 x2 Bludgeoning War YoYo: A war yoyo has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe. You can make trip attacks with the yoyo. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the yoyo to avoid being tripped. When using a war yoyo, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails). You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a war yoyo sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you. That looks great! It's like a small Spiked Chain but with bludgeoning damage. I bet it would look awesome as a flaming weapon, like a little fireball on a chain. As a variant, as mentioned, the wooden wheel could be replaced with a metal shuriken-like disk for slashing damage. EDIT: Artistic interpertation http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/howareyougentlemen/waryoyo.jpg Though little knobs on it would be nice too.
M.E. Charm 09-15-05, 11:14 AM	Okay, after giving it some thought, I decided that the returning throwing weapon would be a better idea, and I changed the name. Exotic Weapon, Ranged Chained Discus Cost 5 gp Dmg(s) 1d4/x2 Dmg(m) 1d6/x2 Range Increment¹ 20 ft. Weight 3 lb. Type Bludgeoning Exotic Weapon, Ranged Chained Star Cost 10 gp Dmg(s) 1d4/x2 Dmg(m) 1d6/x2 Range Increment¹ 20 ft. Weight 2 lb. Type Slashing 1 See description http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/howareyougentlemen/chaineddiscuschainedstar.jpg A chained discus is a thick reinforced wooden discus with a deep groove where the metal chain ending in a ring rolls up in. A chained star is a large double shuriken with the metal chain ending in a ring rolling up where they connect. When the discus or star is thrown, the wielder can pull it back again. The chain only reaches to 20 ft; if the wielder wants to throw it any further, she has to let go of the chain, thus becoming none profficient with it and recieving a -4 penalty on her attack roll. In addition, a chained discus or star can attack an adjacedent without provoking an attack of oppertunity or recieving any penalties as if the weapon was of melee-type, while still acting like of ranged-type. A nice magic variants could be a flaming/flaming burst Chained Star; the Fire Windmill, or a 'slay living' Chained Discus; Wheel of Death or Destiny. I think this will be how I'm going to use it in my campaign; any more thoughts or criticism?
abraham 09-15-05, 07:50 PM	in 2nd ed. they acturally had a magic yoyo!
Hairfoot 09-16-05, 12:59 AM	Apart from the 1H bit, what you've described is just a cosmetic variation on the spiked chain. I don't think it warrants an entirely new weapon. I used to play an arcade game with a character who had this kind of weapon. It looked cool, but it's still a spiked chain. I think having it 1H would be overpowered.
M.E. Charm 09-16-05, 07:53 AM	My idea was to make it magical at first, actually, but I thought it could also be done like this. :) Well, on the contrary to a Spiked Chain, for instance, halflings get the racial bonus with it for being a thrown weapon (using the small version). It does as much damage as a shortsword, only through 20 ft range in exchange for spending a Feat on it. If that's not balanced, should I decrease the range to 15 or even 10 ft? I think decreasing the damage would make it not worth the trouble compared to, for instance, a shortbow. Actually, it's already kind of underpowered versus a composite shortbow if you have space to move (making a five foot step to avoid AoO when firing).
ccggenius12 09-16-05, 03:37 PM	wow, this sounds like a great idea. i am going to have to steal it... but seriously, great work. any opinions on a regular sized steel yo-yo? mabe something like this?: Steel yo-yo (exotic) 20gp Size: small 1d4 blugeoning range 10ft +2 bonuses to trip/disarm. cant drop because its tied to finger. 1d6 slashing damage (garrote) the way i see it, the steel wire in this yo yo should be able to be used as a garrote. but with range. strangling opponents with a yo yo feels so right for so many reasons. dont forget, as a small weapon, a human could dual wield these things:). this makes creating a vorpal yo yo a possibility. but the wire and base must be enchanted separately. new skill: Perform(yo-yo tricks) you can do kewl stuff with your yo yo. you master 1 trick per rank. ex. walking the dog, cats cradle, etc. think of the applications. indiana jones would be so much cooler if he used a yo-yo :) new epic feat: yo yo master. Prequisites: weapon focus (yoyo) Weapon Finesse(yoyo) Exotic weapon proficiency (yoyo) lvl 21 or higher 24 ranks in perform(yoyo tricks) you can wield additional yoyos, up to a max of your dexterity bonus or the number of fingers you have, whichver is less. you suffer a cumulative -2 penalty to attack for each yoyo beyond the second.
M.E. Charm 09-16-05, 03:54 PM	Oh it could be a nice alternative for that nasty whip; same stats, but going at 10ft rather than 15 and dealing 1d4 nonlethal damage, plus the ability to do tricks with it (maybe a bonus on intimidate if perform check succesful?). Bards could be automatically proficient, like they are with whips, if they take ranks in Perform (yoyo).
Waterhammer 09-25-05, 02:49 PM	What was that James Bnd movie?. The villian had a yo-yo like weapon with skill saw blades at its end/
DwarvinJedi 09-25-05, 11:43 PM	Is anyone else having flashbacks of Earthbound, and Kirby Super Star?
Jerks 09-26-05, 01:32 AM	Is anyone else having flashbacks of Earthbound, and Kirby Super Star? No, but I am having flashbacks to the movie Octopussy. There was a buzzsaw yo-yo killer in that one. Not as iconic as the guy with the throwing hat, but then again he was wearing a diaper.
Shadowmagyk 09-26-05, 01:39 AM	Didn't Cadderly from the Cleric Quintet weild a yo-yo like weapon known as a spindle-disk? I remember that it was two hard crystal disks connected with a small metal rod with a string. It was good distraction, but not very good at hurting his opponent. I think that it was upgraded to adamantine. When he used it, it would hurt his hand when it returned. After the upgrade, he was destroying opponents' jaws.