About Pixie Arrows [Archive] - Wizards Community

About Pixie Arrows [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Airos
12-19-06, 03:43 AM Hello, all! I'm currently DMing a game with two 4th level characters. My wife is playing a Pixie, using the racial levels variant in Savage Species. The party is at a point in which she would like to begin making both Pixie Sleep Arrows and Pixie Memory Loss Arrows. Reading over the entires in Savage Species, I'm a little confused about how and when a Pixie is able to do this. The entry for the Pixie racial levels says that a Pixie can create Pixie Arrows without meeting the prerequisites, so I understand that a Pixie does not require the feat Craft Magic Arms and Armor, nor the spells. My question, however, pertains to Caster Level. Since this is listed separate from prerequisites, does this still need to be met? Can the Caster Level only be met by a Pixie with Caster Levels?

As a quick ruling, I've allowed her to make Pixie Sleep Arrows which has a Caster Level of 1st, even though she does not have any levels in a spell casting class, and that she will not be able to make Pixie Memory Loss Arrows until she has reached 11th level. She disagrees with me, stating that the Caster Level is also a prerequisite which her race allows her to ignore. We have decided to bring the issue here to the boards to see what the general consensus is.

Thanks for any help you are able to provide us with!
Thomas_Covenant
12-19-06, 04:12 AM This is actual covered in the Main 3.5 FAQ, Page 35.
Effectively, the "Caster Level" was never intended to be a prerequisite at all, even though the wording tends to imply that.
This means its another item in the FAQ that should properly be errata, but WotC continually fails to consult me on these matters.
An oversight I'm certain, but I'm remarkably tolerant of them.

Unless stated specifically, items never have minimum caster level as a prerequisite. (The "CL" entry is the default caster level of the item, not a requirement for creation.)
A 3rd level Wizard with Craft Wondrous Item could create a harp of charming (even though he's not high-enough level to cast suggestion, a prerequisite of creation), as long as he had access to the suggestion spell during creation (such as from a scroll of another character).
Airos
12-19-06, 04:18 AM This is actual covered in the Main 3.5 FAQ, Page 35.
Effectively, the "Caster Level" was never intended to be a prerequisite at all, even though the wording tends to imply that.
This means its another item in the FAQ that should properly be errata, but WotC continually fails to consult me on these matters.
An oversight I'm certain, but I'm remarkably tolerant of them.

Thanks for pointing that out!

So am I correct in assuming that a Pixie does not need any levels in a spell casting class to create Pixie Arrows, since all the other prerequisites have been met through the racial abilities?
Thomas_Covenant
12-19-06, 08:54 AM According to the Savage Species version, yes.

"as though meeting all the prerequisites"
I don't see much wiggle room, all means all.

Note that compared to 3.5 Pixie, your wife is getting the short end.
Using the 3.5 Monster Manual, a Pixie has +4 LA, but any one class level of choice in a fifth level party.
In savage species, she gets level of Fey, instead of Rogue or Sorceror, say.
I don't know of a rule that can tweak that, but I'd make something up, if I were DM'ing.
Airos
12-20-06, 12:58 AM According to the Savage Species version, yes.

"as though meeting all the prerequisites"
I don't see much wiggle room, all means all.

Note that compared to 3.5 Pixie, your wife is getting the short end.
Using the 3.5 Monster Manual, a Pixie has +4 LA, but any one class level of choice in a fifth level party.
In savage species, she gets level of Fey, instead of Rogue or Sorceror, say.
I don't know of a rule that can tweak that, but I'd make something up, if I were DM'ing.

We did talk about that, and I did mention to her that she was going to find herself weaker than the other player. She was going 5 levels with only 1 hit die., not a lot of skills, and really, really weak in combat. What I've allowed her to do is apply her con bonus to at each "level" of pixie she takes, while keeping only 1 hit die. I've also house ruled that Toughness is +1 HP per level, and is retroactive if taken after 1st level, so she's also getting those hit points for each "level" of pixie. It's not much, but it's kept her alive this far. ;)

Thanks for all your help! I know she'll be happy to hear this. :D
Spec_Specter
12-20-06, 01:15 AM I've also house ruled that Toughness is +1 HP per level, and is retroactive if taken after 1st level, so she's also getting those hit points for each "level" of pixie. It's not much, but it's kept her alive this far. ;)

not that it really matters, but that's acually a diferent feat, exaclly as you discribed, with the all so difrent name 'Improved Toughness' <.<;
I think it's in Complete Warrior
but consitering the biggest diffence with what you're doing already is the aditional wording, I'm not sure why I'm bothering pointing it out....
Airos
12-20-06, 01:58 AM not that it really matters, but that's acually a diferent feat, exaclly as you discribed, with the all so difrent name 'Improved Toughness' <.<;
I think it's in Complete Warrior
but consitering the biggest diffence with what you're doing already is the aditional wording, I'm not sure why I'm bothering pointing it out....

The other differences are that there aren't any prerequisites, it may be taken more than once and it stacks.

I'm aware of Improved Toughness, and unless it becomes a prerequisite of another feat, which is unlikely as none of the Toughness feats are prerequisites of the "higher tier" Toughness feats, or a prerequisite of a Prestige Class, it simply doesn't "exist" in my campaign. Ever since I first played Neverwinter Nights, I felt that was how Toughness should have been from the very start, only to have my opinion strengthened when I played Knights of the old Republic and Knights of the old Republic II. I talked it over with my group, they liked the idea and felt that it was now "worth a feat" when they're in short supply to all but Human Fighters.

But I digress... I've moved away from the original point of my own thread. :embarrass
Fallenangel359
12-20-06, 10:55 AM Btw pixie arrows DC is 12+charisma mod... if you weren't aware

also, the savage species pixie, is missing spell resistance, and 10dr/cold iron

10dr/cold iron makes pixie way... way more survivable

I say... once she hits 5, reroll her stats, using the monster manual version of pixie

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Airos 12-19-06, 03:43 AM	Hello, all! I'm currently DMing a game with two 4th level characters. My wife is playing a Pixie, using the racial levels variant in Savage Species. The party is at a point in which she would like to begin making both Pixie Sleep Arrows and Pixie Memory Loss Arrows. Reading over the entires in Savage Species, I'm a little confused about how and when a Pixie is able to do this. The entry for the Pixie racial levels says that a Pixie can create Pixie Arrows without meeting the prerequisites, so I understand that a Pixie does not require the feat Craft Magic Arms and Armor, nor the spells. My question, however, pertains to Caster Level. Since this is listed separate from prerequisites, does this still need to be met? Can the Caster Level only be met by a Pixie with Caster Levels? As a quick ruling, I've allowed her to make Pixie Sleep Arrows which has a Caster Level of 1st, even though she does not have any levels in a spell casting class, and that she will not be able to make Pixie Memory Loss Arrows until she has reached 11th level. She disagrees with me, stating that the Caster Level is also a prerequisite which her race allows her to ignore. We have decided to bring the issue here to the boards to see what the general consensus is. Thanks for any help you are able to provide us with!
Thomas_Covenant 12-19-06, 04:12 AM	This is actual covered in the Main 3.5 FAQ, Page 35. Effectively, the "Caster Level" was never intended to be a prerequisite at all, even though the wording tends to imply that. This means its another item in the FAQ that should properly be errata, but WotC continually fails to consult me on these matters. An oversight I'm certain, but I'm remarkably tolerant of them. Unless stated specifically, items never have minimum caster level as a prerequisite. (The "CL" entry is the default caster level of the item, not a requirement for creation.) A 3rd level Wizard with Craft Wondrous Item could create a harp of charming (even though he's not high-enough level to cast suggestion, a prerequisite of creation), as long as he had access to the suggestion spell during creation (such as from a scroll of another character).
Airos 12-19-06, 04:18 AM	This is actual covered in the Main 3.5 FAQ, Page 35. Effectively, the "Caster Level" was never intended to be a prerequisite at all, even though the wording tends to imply that. This means its another item in the FAQ that should properly be errata, but WotC continually fails to consult me on these matters. An oversight I'm certain, but I'm remarkably tolerant of them. Thanks for pointing that out! So am I correct in assuming that a Pixie does not need any levels in a spell casting class to create Pixie Arrows, since all the other prerequisites have been met through the racial abilities?
Thomas_Covenant 12-19-06, 08:54 AM	According to the Savage Species version, yes. "as though meeting all the prerequisites" I don't see much wiggle room, all means all. Note that compared to 3.5 Pixie, your wife is getting the short end. Using the 3.5 Monster Manual, a Pixie has +4 LA, but any one class level of choice in a fifth level party. In savage species, she gets level of Fey, instead of Rogue or Sorceror, say. I don't know of a rule that can tweak that, but I'd make something up, if I were DM'ing.
Airos 12-20-06, 12:58 AM	According to the Savage Species version, yes. "as though meeting all the prerequisites" I don't see much wiggle room, all means all. Note that compared to 3.5 Pixie, your wife is getting the short end. Using the 3.5 Monster Manual, a Pixie has +4 LA, but any one class level of choice in a fifth level party. In savage species, she gets level of Fey, instead of Rogue or Sorceror, say. I don't know of a rule that can tweak that, but I'd make something up, if I were DM'ing. We did talk about that, and I did mention to her that she was going to find herself weaker than the other player. She was going 5 levels with only 1 hit die., not a lot of skills, and really, really weak in combat. What I've allowed her to do is apply her con bonus to at each "level" of pixie she takes, while keeping only 1 hit die. I've also house ruled that Toughness is +1 HP per level, and is retroactive if taken after 1st level, so she's also getting those hit points for each "level" of pixie. It's not much, but it's kept her alive this far. ;) Thanks for all your help! I know she'll be happy to hear this. :D
Spec_Specter 12-20-06, 01:15 AM	I've also house ruled that Toughness is +1 HP per level, and is retroactive if taken after 1st level, so she's also getting those hit points for each "level" of pixie. It's not much, but it's kept her alive this far. ;) not that it really matters, but that's acually a diferent feat, exaclly as you discribed, with the all so difrent name 'Improved Toughness' <.<; I think it's in Complete Warrior but consitering the biggest diffence with what you're doing already is the aditional wording, I'm not sure why I'm bothering pointing it out....
Airos 12-20-06, 01:58 AM	not that it really matters, but that's acually a diferent feat, exaclly as you discribed, with the all so difrent name 'Improved Toughness' <.<; I think it's in Complete Warrior but consitering the biggest diffence with what you're doing already is the aditional wording, I'm not sure why I'm bothering pointing it out.... The other differences are that there aren't any prerequisites, it may be taken more than once and it stacks. I'm aware of Improved Toughness, and unless it becomes a prerequisite of another feat, which is unlikely as none of the Toughness feats are prerequisites of the "higher tier" Toughness feats, or a prerequisite of a Prestige Class, it simply doesn't "exist" in my campaign. Ever since I first played Neverwinter Nights, I felt that was how Toughness should have been from the very start, only to have my opinion strengthened when I played Knights of the old Republic and Knights of the old Republic II. I talked it over with my group, they liked the idea and felt that it was now "worth a feat" when they're in short supply to all but Human Fighters. But I digress... I've moved away from the original point of my own thread. :embarrass
Fallenangel359 12-20-06, 10:55 AM	Btw pixie arrows DC is 12+charisma mod... if you weren't aware also, the savage species pixie, is missing spell resistance, and 10dr/cold iron 10dr/cold iron makes pixie way... way more survivable I say... once she hits 5, reroll her stats, using the monster manual version of pixie