About Wildshape, the errata and Fleshraker [Archive] - Wizards Community

About Wildshape, the errata and Fleshraker [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Endevor
04-03-07, 03:32 AM Hello everyone, i don't know where to ask this question i will try this section of the forum.

My GM said ok to the fleshraker (i am playing the Savage Tide Adventure path dinausaurs are all over the place), we are using the new rules for wild shape i just hit lvl 5 and i am trying to calculate all my stats, i lowered the dmg for claws (with the new rules i no longer gain the INA claws feat), i understand all the modifiers to my attacks (X1 str to my 2 primary claws, x0.5 for all the other attacks), what i really don't understand is the dmg and to hit bonus for the rake attack... in the book it says +2 to hit and 1D6+2 dmg, this doesn't make sense, the fleshraker have 19 str, bab+3, it can't be +2 to hit, it should be +6 if counted as a primary or +1 if secondary (i don't have Multiattack), it is the same for the rake dmg it should be +3 or +1 nothing else... do you have an idea? Is there a special calculation for rake dmg? Or just a simple mistake?

I have another question about the leaping pounce ability (it is a special attack so i can keep it), it says at the end of the text that if you sucessfully trip your opponent but fail the grapple check your opponent is prone in your square, i don't understand how it work, when you charge do you go directly in the square of your opponent moving back if you don't trip him, going to his square if you trip him? Or do you pull the opponent to your attack square if you successfully trip him?
If it is the first answer do you provoque AOO from other foes when entering the square?
It is really not crystal clear for me...

Thank you in advance for your help (and excuse my poor english this is not my mothertongue feel free to correct me)
DemonMonkeyBoy
04-03-07, 04:34 AM The errata states it works like Alternate form, which I have placed below. Reading it over I don't see why you lose the feats of the creature. So I think you keep INA.

Looking in my MM3 the Str of the raker is 17 so +3 to damage is right.
Your Primary att bonus is Str(+3) + your BAB
Secondary att bonus is Str(+3) + your BAB - 5

The rake is a special type of attack. The listed +2 is a Bonus to your attack. The damage how ever I'm not sure how to aswer. I'd say leave it at d6+2 or count it as a secondary attack.

The whole trip / grapple thing is hard to explain but I'll do my best. As best I see it your jumping into the opponents square and not causing an AoO.
A: Win trip and grapple opponent in prone and pinned and you enter it's square. In a grapple you enter your opponents square and do not provoke an AoO.
B: Win trip lose Grapple as best I see it you trip him and land on top.
C: Lose both at the end of your attacks you take a 5ft step out of your opponents square.

Alternate Form (Su): A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the creature:

The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.

The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).

The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.

The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.

The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or supernatural attacks of its new form.

The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.

Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.

The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.

The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.

Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and viceversa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.
Endevor
04-03-07, 04:41 AM Sorry i wrote 19 but meant 17 thats why it is +6 for primary to hit (3 bab and 3 for STR) or +1 for secondary i was right about that, but it does not explain the +2 for the rake attack to hit (nor the +2 to dmg for rake either).

Your discussion about the feats is interesting, it says you retain your own feat but does not say anything abour gaining the feats of your new form.

The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.

Nothing about gaining Feats of your new form.
Eothain
04-03-07, 07:28 AM Actually you dont get any of the feats of the new creatures... its stated in the new Polymorph Revisited (that has nothing to do with Poolymorph)... Ive read it yesterday... and although you become physically similar to an animal o dyno, they said that you dont have the experience with that body form, so you dont get any of the racial skill or feats (unless you achieve 7th level Master of Many forms).

Racial Traits

Since alternate form doesn't change your type and subtype, it's simplest to rule that you retain any of your racial traits that aren't otherwise barred by the alternate form effect. That means that you'd keep any racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and the like, but you wouldn't gain those of the new form. Even though your body appears similar to that of a normal creature of the new form, you don't have its lifetime of experience in the body, and therefore don't necessarily share its natural aptitudes.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060516a

Hope this help!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Endevor 04-03-07, 03:32 AM	Hello everyone, i don't know where to ask this question i will try this section of the forum. My GM said ok to the fleshraker (i am playing the Savage Tide Adventure path dinausaurs are all over the place), we are using the new rules for wild shape i just hit lvl 5 and i am trying to calculate all my stats, i lowered the dmg for claws (with the new rules i no longer gain the INA claws feat), i understand all the modifiers to my attacks (X1 str to my 2 primary claws, x0.5 for all the other attacks), what i really don't understand is the dmg and to hit bonus for the rake attack... in the book it says +2 to hit and 1D6+2 dmg, this doesn't make sense, the fleshraker have 19 str, bab+3, it can't be +2 to hit, it should be +6 if counted as a primary or +1 if secondary (i don't have Multiattack), it is the same for the rake dmg it should be +3 or +1 nothing else... do you have an idea? Is there a special calculation for rake dmg? Or just a simple mistake? I have another question about the leaping pounce ability (it is a special attack so i can keep it), it says at the end of the text that if you sucessfully trip your opponent but fail the grapple check your opponent is prone in your square, i don't understand how it work, when you charge do you go directly in the square of your opponent moving back if you don't trip him, going to his square if you trip him? Or do you pull the opponent to your attack square if you successfully trip him? If it is the first answer do you provoque AOO from other foes when entering the square? It is really not crystal clear for me... Thank you in advance for your help (and excuse my poor english this is not my mothertongue feel free to correct me)
DemonMonkeyBoy 04-03-07, 04:34 AM	The errata states it works like Alternate form, which I have placed below. Reading it over I don't see why you lose the feats of the creature. So I think you keep INA. Looking in my MM3 the Str of the raker is 17 so +3 to damage is right. Your Primary att bonus is Str(+3) + your BAB Secondary att bonus is Str(+3) + your BAB - 5 The rake is a special type of attack. The listed +2 is a Bonus to your attack. The damage how ever I'm not sure how to aswer. I'd say leave it at d6+2 or count it as a secondary attack. The whole trip / grapple thing is hard to explain but I'll do my best. As best I see it your jumping into the opponents square and not causing an AoO. A: Win trip and grapple opponent in prone and pinned and you enter it's square. In a grapple you enter your opponents square and do not provoke an AoO. B: Win trip lose Grapple as best I see it you trip him and land on top. C: Lose both at the end of your attacks you take a 5ft step out of your opponents square. Alternate Form (Su): A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the creature: The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well. The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature). The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form. The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form. The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or supernatural attacks of its new form. The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution. Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses. The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components. The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise. Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and viceversa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.
Endevor 04-03-07, 04:41 AM	Sorry i wrote 19 but meant 17 thats why it is +6 for primary to hit (3 bab and 3 for STR) or +1 for secondary i was right about that, but it does not explain the +2 for the rake attack to hit (nor the +2 to dmg for rake either). Your discussion about the feats is interesting, it says you retain your own feat but does not say anything abour gaining the feats of your new form. The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form. Nothing about gaining Feats of your new form.
Eothain 04-03-07, 07:28 AM	Actually you dont get any of the feats of the new creatures... its stated in the new Polymorph Revisited (that has nothing to do with Poolymorph)... Ive read it yesterday... and although you become physically similar to an animal o dyno, they said that you dont have the experience with that body form, so you dont get any of the racial skill or feats (unless you achieve 7th level Master of Many forms). Racial Traits Since alternate form doesn't change your type and subtype, it's simplest to rule that you retain any of your racial traits that aren't otherwise barred by the alternate form effect. That means that you'd keep any racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and the like, but you wouldn't gain those of the new form. Even though your body appears similar to that of a normal creature of the new form, you don't have its lifetime of experience in the body, and therefore don't necessarily share its natural aptitudes. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060516a Hope this help!