Abstract Combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Abstract Combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BigFire
06-13-07, 05:38 PM Ok, just recently getting back into Dungeons & Dragons after a decade playing Whitewolf Games, used to play the old Advanced Dungeons & Dragons when I was a kid.

I have the 3 core rule books and have been playing a few solo games with my bro and am almost ready to DM a regular game with a group of friends.

Thing is I want to avoid using minitures/grid combat/attacks of opportunity reasons being that I cant afford a horde of models and I dont expect my mates to pay to play, I was wondering if there is a system out there for playing with a pure abstract combat system?

If there is no such system that supports abstract combat what possible consequences or disadvantages might there be in regards to my way of gaming?
BroadStreetBully
06-13-07, 05:44 PM ouch. if you want abstract combat, i'd stick with d6 Legends, World of Darkness, or something else.

the combat-grid system is pretty integrated into the system, between area of effect spells, flanking bonuses with characters on opposite sides of an opponent, feats that are designed to give bonuses to attacks of opportunity, etc.

as far as a grid goes, that's easy enough if you don't mind scratching a quick one out on paper (or even using graph paper and small place holders). and you don't really need miniatures, just used colored d4's or d6's to represent characters & monsters.
Salla
06-13-07, 05:46 PM You don't need to raid the D&D Minis aisle for your battlemat. It HELPS, sure ... but each player could just buy a single, distinctive lead mini and use it exclusively (Bob is always the Dwarf, etc). For the opponents, you could cut out squares of paper and either label them for one use, or number them (Blue 1 is the hobgoblin, Reds 1-4 are his goblin henchment), or the like.
tarkin
06-13-07, 05:48 PM 1. Removing Attack of Oppoutunity is a BAD idea.

Basically, you incure an AoO whenver someone does something stupid in combat. Look that fool took out a flask and is drinking from it while I am in the middle of attacking him. What a moron, I will definitely hit him know.

The game is built around it a lot. Yes it looks a little complicated, but once you get the hang of it, it is actually pretty simple.

If you just use the rule of "would anyone ever think of claiming this action would make it more likely I am going to be hit" then that is when you get the AoO.

2. Grids can simply be done using a checker board/chess board. you get 8x8, and several tokens of different colors (diferent shapes if you go all out and have a chess board. Stack the checkers if using them. 1 = first guy on the team, 2 = 2nd guy, etc. Who gives a crap if they don't look like the monster. If you can't find a game of checkers, well, make your own with pieces of paper, pennies and dimes.

3. It can be played without grids/minatures. It requires some basic rules about targetting. I suggest the following:

Unless otherwise stated, fireball sized and similar areas get 3 enemies that are not in melee combat with anyone.

Unless otherwise stated, lines and walls get two enemies, period.
BigFire
06-13-07, 05:51 PM so far my games have been heavy on the RP side of things xp is awarded based on your level times 300 per session, flanking hasnt been a problem though reach weapons are a cunundrum, sneak attacks worked out fine though bulls rush has suffered
BigFire
06-13-07, 06:00 PM there is a set of grids in the back of the DMG but I cant bring myself to rip pages out of a book, and I'd prefer not to use grids/minitures at all, I do use hand drawn maps of the adventuring area and players have drawn maps as I've described an area, but I prefer to describe combat and the players do have cinematic liscense to describe their characters actions in a given combat environment, like if theyre in a bar fight there's a good chance there's a chair they could smash against someone even if I havent specifically described a chair being there, or being able to push an enemy over a precipice if they are fighting on a cliff side etc
Elrond Hubbard
06-13-07, 07:36 PM I agree with the above posters. You need some kind of grid system to play D&D properly, with all the rules on tactics, movement, spell effects, etc. BUT - you don't need to spend money to do it, assuming you have access to a printer and some creativity.

http://www.digg.com/tech_news/Free_Online_Graph_Paper_Grid_Paper_PDFs

From that link, you can print out as many sheets of 1"-square grid paper as you like. Draw your maps on there by hand, then just get creative with what pieces you use as markers. The pieces from Monopoly come to mind, chess pieces also, etc. etc.

In general, you're right - it's a game of imagination, so you don't need to have a miniature plastic dwarf to represent a PC. But having something to refer to for tactical movement etc. is essential. Just too confusing otherwise.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BigFire 06-13-07, 05:38 PM	Ok, just recently getting back into Dungeons & Dragons after a decade playing Whitewolf Games, used to play the old Advanced Dungeons & Dragons when I was a kid. I have the 3 core rule books and have been playing a few solo games with my bro and am almost ready to DM a regular game with a group of friends. Thing is I want to avoid using minitures/grid combat/attacks of opportunity reasons being that I cant afford a horde of models and I dont expect my mates to pay to play, I was wondering if there is a system out there for playing with a pure abstract combat system? If there is no such system that supports abstract combat what possible consequences or disadvantages might there be in regards to my way of gaming?
BroadStreetBully 06-13-07, 05:44 PM	ouch. if you want abstract combat, i'd stick with d6 Legends, World of Darkness, or something else. the combat-grid system is pretty integrated into the system, between area of effect spells, flanking bonuses with characters on opposite sides of an opponent, feats that are designed to give bonuses to attacks of opportunity, etc. as far as a grid goes, that's easy enough if you don't mind scratching a quick one out on paper (or even using graph paper and small place holders). and you don't really need miniatures, just used colored d4's or d6's to represent characters & monsters.
Salla 06-13-07, 05:46 PM	You don't need to raid the D&D Minis aisle for your battlemat. It HELPS, sure ... but each player could just buy a single, distinctive lead mini and use it exclusively (Bob is always the Dwarf, etc). For the opponents, you could cut out squares of paper and either label them for one use, or number them (Blue 1 is the hobgoblin, Reds 1-4 are his goblin henchment), or the like.
tarkin 06-13-07, 05:48 PM	1. Removing Attack of Oppoutunity is a BAD idea. Basically, you incure an AoO whenver someone does something stupid in combat. Look that fool took out a flask and is drinking from it while I am in the middle of attacking him. What a moron, I will definitely hit him know. The game is built around it a lot. Yes it looks a little complicated, but once you get the hang of it, it is actually pretty simple. If you just use the rule of "would anyone ever think of claiming this action would make it more likely I am going to be hit" then that is when you get the AoO. 2. Grids can simply be done using a checker board/chess board. you get 8x8, and several tokens of different colors (diferent shapes if you go all out and have a chess board. Stack the checkers if using them. 1 = first guy on the team, 2 = 2nd guy, etc. Who gives a crap if they don't look like the monster. If you can't find a game of checkers, well, make your own with pieces of paper, pennies and dimes. 3. It can be played without grids/minatures. It requires some basic rules about targetting. I suggest the following: Unless otherwise stated, fireball sized and similar areas get 3 enemies that are not in melee combat with anyone. Unless otherwise stated, lines and walls get two enemies, period.
BigFire 06-13-07, 05:51 PM	so far my games have been heavy on the RP side of things xp is awarded based on your level times 300 per session, flanking hasnt been a problem though reach weapons are a cunundrum, sneak attacks worked out fine though bulls rush has suffered
BigFire 06-13-07, 06:00 PM	there is a set of grids in the back of the DMG but I cant bring myself to rip pages out of a book, and I'd prefer not to use grids/minitures at all, I do use hand drawn maps of the adventuring area and players have drawn maps as I've described an area, but I prefer to describe combat and the players do have cinematic liscense to describe their characters actions in a given combat environment, like if theyre in a bar fight there's a good chance there's a chair they could smash against someone even if I havent specifically described a chair being there, or being able to push an enemy over a precipice if they are fighting on a cliff side etc
Elrond Hubbard 06-13-07, 07:36 PM	I agree with the above posters. You need some kind of grid system to play D&D properly, with all the rules on tactics, movement, spell effects, etc. BUT - you don't need to spend money to do it, assuming you have access to a printer and some creativity. http://www.digg.com/tech_news/Free_Online_Graph_Paper_Grid_Paper_PDFs From that link, you can print out as many sheets of 1"-square grid paper as you like. Draw your maps on there by hand, then just get creative with what pieces you use as markers. The pieces from Monopoly come to mind, chess pieces also, etc. etc. In general, you're right - it's a game of imagination, so you don't need to have a miniature plastic dwarf to represent a PC. But having something to refer to for tactical movement etc. is essential. Just too confusing otherwise.