Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WinterPsionic 02-24-07, 12:07 PM	Was curious as to ways to increase an incorporeal's AC? They have a racial deflection bonus so bracers of armor won't work, I'm pretty sure I can't wear armor so I guess things like taking class are one of my few options, I'm think Ninja might work as I have an Ok Dex, Monk would be limited as I don't have a Str score so no bonus damage, though if I could find something to add my Int to ac I'd be set... Any suggestions? I'm a tad unfamiliar with rules for incorporeal's(namely the Unbodied from XPH)
Mooncalf 02-24-07, 07:10 PM	Take the Ghostly Grasp feat (Libris Mortis). Lets you wear, wield and carry items as if you were not incorporeal. (I guess when you pick 'em up, they become incorporeal too.) Being incorporeal means any natural armor AC is ignored, but not armor AC, as long as you can use stuff as mentioned above. Also, a friend of mine informs me that incorporeal creatures use charisma for attacks and damage instead of strength, though I don't know where that's taken from. Supposedly some errata. Though it makes sense, I think. It's all fun and games until someone loses a class feature.
runestar 02-24-07, 10:26 PM	Bracers of armour grants an armour bonus, not a deflection bonus. I suppose you could give it 1 lv of sorc(with the eschew material components feat) and let it cast mage armour and shield on itself...Take practiced spellcaster as necessary...:)
StevenO 02-25-07, 07:34 PM	The Ghost Touch armor ability lets it work for and agaist incorporeal creatures.
unusualsuspect 02-25-07, 07:44 PM	A single level of monk with Carmendine Monk (Some FR book) or Kung Fu Genius (Dragon 314, if memory serves.. could be a different issue, though). Int to AC. Alternate option: Kineticist 7 gives you Control Body, which (if your incorporeal form has a humanoid shape) gives you your int modifier to AC instead of dex for as long as you concentrate on the power... use Solicit Psicyrstal, and you're good to go.
WinterPsionic 02-26-07, 12:23 PM	Hmmm I'll look into the Monk thing though being able to avoid the need for concentration would be nice. I'm also aware of the Ghost Touch property however at level 1 I can't afford it, that will most likely be one of my earliest choices depending on how the rest of these suggestions pound out. By the sounds of it Ghostly Grasp may be my best bet as I'll be walking through walls quite a bit...
unusualsuspect 02-26-07, 12:28 PM	Hmmm I'll look into the Monk thing though being able to avoid the need for concentration would be nice. I'm also aware of the Ghost Touch property however at level 1 I can't afford it, that will most likely be one of my earliest choices depending on how the rest of these suggestions pound out. By the sounds of it Ghostly Grasp may be my best bet as I'll be walking through walls quite a bit... What concentration do you need for the monk? The Monk's AC applies at all times, except when its helpless, encumbered, wearing armor, or wielding a shield.. This means that even a flatfooted monk is getting its wisdom modifier (or in the case of Carmendine Monk, its intelligence modifier) to AC.
wonlee76 02-26-07, 12:50 PM	(I'm presuming you're an incorporeal undead creature. I'm not sure if there are other types of incorporeal creatures). Max out Dex for a Dodge bonus to AC. Max out Charisma for that deflection bonus to AC. Ninja or Monk for Wisdom bonus to AC. Qualify for Duelist or Invisible Blade for Intelligence Bonus to AC. Considering undead have no strength score or constitution score, you could easily "dump" those two stats and focus just on four stats. At lower levels you shouldn't be worried too much about AC since in order to harm you, the enemy needs magical weapons. And even if they had a magical weapon, they get a 50/50 shot of actually hurting you even if they hit barring them having ghost touch weapons or the like.
WinterPsionic 02-26-07, 01:00 PM	(I'm presuming you're an incorporeal undead creature. I'm not sure if there are other types of incorporeal creatures). Max out Dex for a Dodge bonus to AC. Max out Charisma for that deflection bonus to AC. Ninja or Monk for Wisdom bonus to AC. Qualify for Duelist or Invisible Blade for Intelligence Bonus to AC. Considering undead have no strength score or constitution score, you could easily "dump" those two stats and focus just on four stats. At lower levels you shouldn't be worried too much about AC since in order to harm you, the enemy needs magical weapons. And even if they had a magical weapon, they get a 50/50 shot of actually hurting you even if they hit barring them having ghost touch weapons or the like. Actually I'm not undead, I'm an ascended being...so I'm like an anti-undead in a sense... Wow...it was my understanding that even mundane weapons had the 50/50 to hit, am I to understand that normal weapon(ex. Masterwork Bastard Sword) have a 0% chance to hit me?(This is what happens when I've almost never done anything with Incorporeal creatures...) I guess I'll need to check with my DM or rework the progression to put Incoporeal Traits at a higher level. For the purpose of total disclosure I'm trying to work with a homebrewed racial level progression for the Unbodied(XPH, Page 215-217) I had set Incorporeal to level 1 thinking it was as I mentioned, perhaps it needs a later inclusion....
wonlee76 02-26-07, 01:54 PM	Incorporeal Subtype: An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead, but a hit with holy water has a 50% chance of not affecting an incorporeal creature. An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature’s Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus). An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see farther from the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect. An incorporeal creature’s attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight. An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn’t wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks. Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have an innate sense of direction and can move at full speed even when they cannot see. Well, there you go. That lists all the abilities the incorporeal subtype gives which I presume is equally applicable to your PC since its not restricted to Incorporeal Undead.
WinterPsionic 02-26-07, 02:45 PM	Well, there you go. That lists all the abilities the incorporeal subtype gives which I presume is equally applicable to your PC since its not restricted to Incorporeal Undead. Thanks, it had actually only stated "Incorporeal Traits" with like a 5 line passage summarizing most of that outside a few "unrelated" bonuses that are actually quite related... ----------------------------------------- About my comment on concentration...had a brain fart and forgot a few lines, that was about the idea for the Kineticist, with the race having a racial telepathic ability I'm not sure I could get away with this and since I'm trying to stick to the whole Mind Probing and tricking your wife into thinking i'm you but with a few new tricks :-} I don't see it working though thanks for the input!
tarkin 02-26-07, 04:59 PM	Please note that if you are incorporeal you may not use normal armor, as if you are wearing it, it becomes incorporeal and can't help your AC. But you can use ghost touched AC and of course, Force Effects, such as Mage Armor. Force Effects, such as as Mage Armor, will limit your actions, as you won't be able to travel through solid objects. But ghost touched armor will not limit your actions in any way, it is far preferable. My suggestion: Buy some armor, and have it enchanted with Ghost Touched.
WinterPsionic 02-26-07, 06:03 PM	But ghost touched armor will not limit your actions in any way, it is far preferable. My suggestion: Buy some armor, and have it enchanted with Ghost Touched. Well there's an unexpected benfit, so Ghost Touch Armor can pass through walls as wells? I kind of expected Mage Armor and similiar spells to be restricting since it's a force effect between me and the wall but I thought Ghot Touched armor would be the same way.