Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SilverEyes 03-08-07, 05:48 PM	Quick question, so; you're AC is calculated with all non-stacking bonuses (except dodge bonuses), right? And flat-footed means you don't get Dex to AC (only thing you don't get?) Touch means you don't get; armour, shield or natural armour (only things you don't get?) I understand; shield, deflection, armour, natural armour, Dexterity. Which bonuses are lost for flat-footed or touch AC, immobilized/helpless? (currently wondering about) sacred, divine, insight. Sources are silver beard, a level in aspirant (variant cleric), and dusty rose prism ioun stone. I don't believe any of these sources mention what happens what happens to your touch AC, flat-footed AC, or if they apply when you are immobilized or helpless. (Actually, I think insight is covered in PHB?). Thanks in advance.
MourninStar 03-08-07, 06:15 PM	Flat Footed AC is Natural Armor bonus + Armor Bonus + Deflection + Size + Shield. You lose Dex, Dodge, and Insight, unless you have Uncanny Dodge, in which case you keep your Dex. Your touch AC is your normal AC minus Armor, Shield, and Natural Armor bonuses.
demon42 03-08-07, 06:16 PM	In my campaign I'd rule that sacred, divine and insight bonues all add to both your flat footed and touch ACs (including immobilized/helpless) Divine and sacred are pretty easy to see given their intention. You could see it as a deflection bonus if you like (aka, some deity 'wills' the attack 1 point less successful). Insight on the other hand could be interpreted as putting your armor on just right such that it allows for both the maximum protection and flexibility. Meaning, you're that much better at avoiding a touch attack, or your armor/shield/whatever is that much better at absorbing the blow simply because of your insight. [Edit] Actually, refer to the PHP Board FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=20508)::D Q. How do you calculate your Touch AC, Flat-Footed AC, etc.? A. Your Touch AC does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus (PHB 119, Touch Attacks, PHB 125 Touch Spells in Combat and 282 Touch Attack). All other modifications, such as Dex, Size, Dodge, Deflection, etc., still apply. Your flat footed AC is simply your normal AC, without counting your Dex bonus (if any) or any other bonuses (such as Haste or Dodge bonuses) which you lose when you lose your Dex bonus. In practice, this means that flat-footed AC most often consists of Size Modifier + Armor Bonus + Shield Bonus + Deflection Bonus. (although Luck, Insight, Unnamed, Enhancement, Cover, Natural Armor, Special, Sacred, Profane and Unnamed Bonuses all still apply, they are somewhat rarer in practice) Rules for calculating other types of AC, such as AC vs. Incorporeal can be found in the appropriate section of the DMG (Page 78 for Incorporeal)
ShinAkuma2 03-08-07, 06:28 PM	Flat Footed AC is Natural Armor bonus + Armor Bonus + Deflection + Size + Shield. You lose Dex, Dodge, and Insight, unless you have Uncanny Dodge, in which case you keep your Dex. Do you have some sort of rules text to back that up? I'm sure many sources of Insight bonuses don't work when flat-footed, but I don't think that's indicitive of all Insight bonuses. As it stands, when flat-footed, you lose your Dex to AC. If you don't have Dex to AC for ANY reason, you also lose Dodge to AC. Uncanny Dodge would allow you to keep both when Flat-Footed or attacked by an invisible attacker.
MourninStar 03-08-07, 07:36 PM	Do you have some sort of rules text to back that up? I'm sure many sources of Insight bonuses don't work when flat-footed, but I don't think that's indicitive of all Insight bonuses. I checked the PHB before I replied to the OP, and I didn't see anything that said you keep insight bonuses to your flat footed AC. I think that's because an insight bonus comes from your understanding of your opponent and the battlefield (hence the name), so it wouldn't apply when you're unaware of your opponent or can't react.
SilverEyes 03-08-07, 08:40 PM	Thanks for the responses, PHB FAQ it is :P
ShinAkuma2 03-08-07, 11:24 PM	I checked the PHB before I replied to the OP, and I didn't see anything that said you keep insight bonuses to your flat footed AC. That's because it doesn't tell you what you keep. It tells you what you lose. If they listed everything you keep, the list'd be enormous, plus they'd have to update it every time a new bonus was created. Since it doesn't say you lose an Insight bonus, that's not the default. You'd need to check the source of the bonus to see if it says anything about it.
paladin2019 03-09-07, 01:50 AM	Ummm, I was under the impression you don't lose all armor bonuses. Bracers of armor provide an armor bonus and still apply vs touch attacks. (Or is that incorporeal touch attacks? Damn books being packed.)
Steevo 03-09-07, 02:39 AM	Which bonuses are lost for flat-footed or touch AC, immobilized/helpless? AFAIK, Flat-footed looses Dex Bonus (and therefore also Dodge.) Note the word Bonus. If you have a Penalty (a negative modifier) to Dex, you don't lose it when you're flat-footed. Touch AC loses Armor, Shield and Nat. Armor (and that's it.) Being helpless means you have an effective Dex of 0 (hence -5 Penalty) and melee attacks against you gain a +4 bonus. (And you're susceptible to coup de grace, but that's beside the point.)