Post/Author/DateTime	Post
loganic1 02-02-08, 02:30 PM	I wanted to know what people's ideal AC builds were for normal high powered campaigns. This can include must haves like Energy Resistance and Fortification, but I'd like it to remain fairly character unspecific. My personal build is probably fairly typical Celestial Armor -light chainmail +3, 8 max dex Amulate NAC +5 Ring of Prot +5 Ring of Force shield +2 Ioun stone +2 Dex My characters tend to have high dex, so I easily reach past 8 max dex Tally 10 08 dex 08 light Chainmail +3 05 NAC 5 05 prot 5 02 FS 38 AC I know there's rules with which I can pay double to allow an item to not occupy the their slots. Because of that, I'd typically have other basic odds and ends Ring of Sustenance Ring of Freedom of Movement Since the armor is light, it's great for all my castors. I have trouble seeing how heavy armor characters can achieve a higher AC. Depending on the campaign ER would be an ideal addition. I play a mid level melee warlock, so it's perfect for me. Any additonal must have on armor, ER, Fortification? Edit: And Before anyone mentions bracers +8, Supposedly they dont stack with the deflection bonus from armor, therefore the only reason for getting them would be to be able to replace celestial with a better Energy Resistance mods or other such enhancements. Besides, they cost quite a bit more than Celestial.
Dheran 02-02-08, 03:45 PM	There are other reasons to get Bracers of Armor rather than armor: Armor interferes with many Rogue abilities. Armor won't let you get the Monk AC bonus. We can easily combine these, say in a Rogue/Cleric. 10 base AC +8 armor Bracers of Armor +8 DEX bonus +1 Monk's Belt +8 WIS bonus, thanks to the Monk's Belt +5 deflection Ring of Protection +5 +5 natural armor Amulet of Natural Armor +1 insight Dusty rose Ioun stone --- 46 AC It's possible to add 1 level of the Mystic Wanderer PrC and also get a CHA bonus to AC. This ability, like the Monk's AC bonus, requires that the character wear no armor.
loganic1 02-02-08, 05:35 PM	So Monk's Belt and the +1 AC Ioun Stone is great. Any additional ways to buff AC? Spells? Do people wish for crazy AC bonus to their armors?
dman11235 02-02-08, 06:57 PM	They CAN wish for it, they generally don't (not that I've heard anyway). Here's some good AC boosting spells: Shield of Faith, Recitation, Barkskin, Mage Armor and Greater Mage Armor, Armor of Darkness, (Greater) Luminous Armor, Investiture of the Steel Devil, Visions of the Future, and one more I need to look up. Now, some of these are already represented by other items you stated (deflection bonus, nat armor).
runestar 02-02-08, 07:25 PM	For a typical core fighter20, Base 10 +13 armour (+5 mithral fullplate of heavy fortification) +3 dex (dex16, base10+gloves of dex+6) +5 NA (amulet of NA+5) +5 deflection (ring of prot +5) +7 shield (+5 animated mithral heavy steel shield) AC43 average. It is possible to bump that up even higher using expertise and a defending weapon, but at the cost of your own attack rating. Or depending on how readily you can access other forms of AC, such as insight or dodge. +5 animated mithral bucklers should be fairly standard for anyone wishing to not have ASF, such as wizards. Scrap ring of force shield. It is really only useful for monk types who cannot use conventional armour or shields. Wizards can just use shapechange to assume a form with a high NA.
dman11235 02-02-08, 11:31 PM	Actually Runestar, not even monks can use a ring of force shield. It does say: ...can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield
loganic1 02-03-08, 09:52 AM	Can you can still wield a 2 handed weapon with an animated shield? Someone had told me that many of the AC spells like barkskin didn't stack with the deflection bonuses provided by armor, or was it the ring of prot. I can't remember the details quite well, but if that's the case, are there any that do? It is possible to bump that up even higher using expertise and a defending weapon, but at the cost of your own attack rating. Or depending on how readily you can access other forms of AC, such as insight or dodge. I forgot about that, my char had been using an eldritch glaive to hit touch AC, so I could use that. Too bad I've upgraded.
dman11235 02-03-08, 02:42 PM	Read this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking) on stacking. And yes, if you use an animated shield, you can 2-hand a weapon. Your hands are free, aren't they?
Ischtan 02-04-08, 06:36 AM	+1 Monk's Belt +8 WIS bonus, thanks to the Monk's Belt About the Monk's Belt. It says that if you are not a monk, you get the AC Bonus of a 5th Level monk, but not that you gain the WIS to your AC. Maybe it is a point of interpretation, maybe it was somehow figuered out here in the Forum if it is RAW or not. Anyhow, e.g. I would not allow this interpretation.
Nephlite 02-04-08, 06:50 AM	About the Monk's Belt. It says that if you are not a monk, you get the AC Bonus of a 5th Level monk, but not that you gain the WIS to your AC. Maybe it is a point of interpretation, maybe it was somehow figuered out here in the Forum if it is RAW or not. Anyhow, e.g. I would not allow this interpretation. *Um, the Wisbonus of Monk in the ability called AC Bonus: they one and the same.
war_thog 02-04-08, 07:24 AM	You can do the old spiked armour and spiked shield that have + 5 defending on them too cant you? After all they are untyped armour bonuses. To my understanding you dont even have to attack with those weapons to get the benefit, you just have it. *though trading your 2 worst attacks for + 10 armour is still an alright deal*
dman11235 02-04-08, 11:32 AM	@Ischan: A level 5 monk with 18 wis has what AC bonus? +5. Not +1. This was covered in the FAQ I believe, and RAW it allows wis to AC.
mvincent 02-04-08, 02:10 PM	You can do the old spiked armour and spiked shield that have + 5 defending on them too cant you? After all they are untyped armour bonuses.Defending does not stack with itself (i.e. even unnamed bonuses do not stack with themselves)
mvincent 02-04-08, 02:12 PM	This was covered in the FAQ I believeFrom the 3.5 FAQ: 'Does a monk’s belt (Dungeon Master’s Guide, 248) grant a non-monk wearer his Wisdom bonus to AC? Yes. Note, however, that the wearer gains the AC bonus only when unarmored and unencumbered, since the belt clearly states that “this AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.”'
mvincent 02-04-08, 02:18 PM	Another AC boost that has not been mentioned is regular natural armor (say, from being a race that has such). Barkskin and the amulet of natural armor actually stack with regular natural armor (since they actually provide an enhancement bonus to natural armor). Using the alter-self spell (even if you have to get it from a lesser ring of spell-storing) to transform yourself into a troglodyte can provide you with another +6 to AC. Another bonus to AC can be from size. Be small race (or using the reduce person spell) can give you extra AC.
loganic1 02-07-08, 08:02 AM	So that's another reason for bracers +8, so as to be able to wear monk's belt. Here's a break down of current AC Bracers of Armor +8 64k Amulet of Natural Armor +5 50k Ring of Protection +5 50k +7 shield (+5 animated mithral heavy steel shield) 49k Globes of Dex +6 36k Ioun Stone Deep red +2 Dex 8k Ioun Dusty Rose +1 AC 5k Current highest AC: 36 +4 Dex +(base stat bones for dex) = 40 + base dex bonus Total Cost: 262k Possible Alternative to monk's belt Sheild +7 vs 57k for the Wis Ioun Stone Incandescent blue + 2 Wis 8k Periapt of Wisdom +6 36k Monk's Belt 13k Compared to the shield, the wisdom would be better if you have at least 20 base. Ultimately, it's up to you to do a cost benefit analysis comparing to compare it to dex though. Here's a breakdown of price per AC bonus, so you can get the best sooner, in order of most to least Ioun Dusty Rose +1 AC 5k (5:1) Shield +7 49k (7:1) Ioun Stone Deep red +1 AC 8k (8:1) Bracers of Armor +8 64k (8:1) Amulet of Natural Armor +5 50k (10:1) Globes of Dex +3 AC 36k (12:1) Wish the animated shield would stack with monk's belt. (I dont suppose two shields or shield + force shield?)
narack 02-07-08, 08:09 AM	add also a pair of Boots of dodging +4
loganic1 02-07-08, 09:13 AM	Cant find them. There's one that gives the +4 AC only to AoO.
Ischtan 02-07-08, 10:41 AM	@Ischan: A level 5 monk with 18 wis has what AC bonus? +5. Not +1. This was covered in the FAQ I believe, and RAW it allows wis to AC. I never said a monk does not get his Wis to AC ;) And still, I would not be sure to allow it .. but because of the pricing. But anyhow, you are probably right that it would be allowed. add also a pair of Boots of dodging +4 Where can I find them?
narack 02-07-08, 12:34 PM	I never said a monk does not get his Wis to AC ;) And still, I would not be sure to allow it .. but because of the pricing. But anyhow, you are probably right that it would be allowed. Where can I find them? You create them : Boots of Dodge +2 Provide +2 dodge AC 10,000gp Boots of Dodge +4 Provide +4 dodge AC 40,000gp Boots of Dodge +6 Provide +6 dodge AC 90,000gp Boots of Dodge +8 Provide +8 dodge AC 160,000gp for even better create stackable belt of dodge to allow multiple item on the same slot you need to multiply the cost by 2 So a Belt of Dodge + 4 not space limitation Provide 4 Dodge AC 80,000gp for 160,000 you got 2 belt one over the other and easier to make due to the low enhancement. Also you can stack indefinitely until you hit the weight limit you can support. Cheezy but doable.
loganic1 02-07-08, 01:37 PM	So I will put the current highest maximum AC at 48(+dex), thanks to naracks boots of dodge, and current price tag to 422K Can you get a price check on that naracks though? 160k is double what bracers of +8 cost. Perhaps you had already factored in the stacking? Edit, Sorry Naracks, According to the table I found, here's how it goes Natural armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared × 2,000 gp AC bonus (deflection) Bonus squared × 2,000 gp Ring of protection +3 AC bonus (other) Bonus squared × 2,500 gp Ioun stone, dusty rose prism Armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared × 1,000 gp +1 chainmail Which means it's utter genius.
ToastedAmphibian 02-07-08, 04:36 PM	Be a tifeling. Take the Montebank prestige class. Have your first "Alter Ego" be a Xorn...... Your AC is now 23 before dex or anything else.
Ischtan 02-08-08, 03:21 AM	So I will put the current highest maximum AC at 48(+dex), thanks to naracks boots of dodge, and current price tag to 422K ... Natural armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared × 2,000 gp AC bonus (deflection) Bonus squared × 2,000 gp Ring of protection +3 AC bonus (other) Bonus squared × 2,500 gp Ioun stone, dusty rose prism Armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared × 1,000 gp +1 chainmail Xou can also make you a necklace of sacred armor +1 or +5 or ... or with profane bonus, or ... almost anything you want. Or put it into your boots, or your vest, or whatever you want ...
edwardlynxx 02-08-08, 07:25 AM	Defending does not stack with itself (i.e. even unnamed bonuses do not stack with themselves) As far as I know any bonus that isn't named stacks with other unnamed bonuses. That's why they're not named. Thus, someone with two defending short swords could benefit from both of them, because they're both "defending" him. I'm reminded of the old adage, "two heads are better than one." In this case it would be two Swords of Defense are better than one. :D
Vrellum 02-08-08, 09:31 AM	Here's an AC of 63. Could be a lot higher I'm sure. I do think multiple defending weapons stack because it says in the text that the AC bonus granted by a defending weapon stacks with all other bonuses, but I didn't use it here. 10 base 13 Mithril full plate + 5 9 Tower Shield +5 1 Shield Specialization 1 Heavy Armor optimization 1 Greater Heavy Armor Optomization 3 DEX 5 Ring of Protection 5 Amulet of Natural Armor 6 Alterself into troglodyte (I know someone can do much better than this) 1 dodge 1 psionic dodge 5 defending weapon 1 dusty rose ion stone 1 haste (boots of haste for example)
ToastedAmphibian 02-08-08, 04:19 PM	6 Alterself into troglodyte (I know someone can do much better than this) A xorn has 13 nat armor, 3 hands, all round vision, a nasty bite attack. you just have to be an outsider. Like a tiefling. That would bump you up too 71 (7 more NA, +1 size bonus for being small)
WhiteHarness 02-11-08, 05:06 PM	Knight 20 (PHBII) 10-Base 10 14-Reinforced Full plate+5 (Dragon Magazine #358) 7-Large shield+5 5-Amulet of Natural Armour+5 5-Ring of Protection+5 1-Heavy Armour Optimization Feat (Races of Stone) 1-Greater Heavy Armour Optimization Feat (RoS) 1-Shield Specialization Feat (PHBII) 1-Dodge Feat 3-Knight's Shield Block Class Ability (PHBII) Total: AC 48 Not too shabby.
mvincent 02-11-08, 05:27 PM	As far as I know any bonus that isn't named stacks with other unnamed bonuses.I say again: unnamed bonuses from the same source don't stack with themselves. Note that "same source" in D&D does not refer to the "same item" (or same caster), but rather the "same effect” (or “same spell”).
Krusk 02-11-08, 06:31 PM	My shot, at a high AC. Personally if I am going to be worring about AC, it is because I am playing a heavy armored melee character so that is the base of what I will use. i won't be using defending weapons, as I also like to attack, and won't be using any spells I can't cast myself -as a noncaster that means 0. I also generally don't use cutsom items. So im sure this can go higher if you include those. Books used- MIC, DMG, PHB, PHB 2, Races of Stone, CW relavant minimum stats- Dex 16, int 13 relavant Feats- Exotic armor- battle plate, dodge, combat expertise, improved combat expertise, shield specialization, shield ward, armor optimization, greater armor optimization 3 free feats Class- Knight 20 Items- +5 mithril battle plate - 16 AC +/-2 depending on movement +5 mithril tower shield- 9 AC +5 ring of protection +5 amulet natural armor +5 vest resistance- for kicks Cloak of displacement major- 50% miss chance for the duration of most combats, and immune to sneak attacks. ion stone that gives +1 insight bonus to AC 10- Base 16- armor bonus (18 depending on how you move.) 10- Shield bonus (13 vs one opponent) 3- Dex 5- deflection 0 -dodge (1 vs one opponent) 0- Combat expertise (20 if using full improved combat expertise) 5- natural armor 1- insight- ion stone Anywhere from 50-76. 50 is the lowest, and if everything goes right you've got 76. in addition you are immune to sneak attacks, with a 50% miss chance on most attacks. Flat footed- 41 to a max of 65 if you are aware but have been feinted or such. Touch-28 minimum to a max of 52. Again depending on awareness and ammount of opponents. FF and touch may be slightly off.
ragentx 02-11-08, 08:12 PM	If you go Monk...then take at least 1st level of Fist of the Forest...you can add you con bonus to your AC.
Erhnam1982 02-12-08, 12:24 AM	You create them : Boots of Dodge +2 Provide +2 dodge AC 10,000gp Boots of Dodge +4 Provide +4 dodge AC 40,000gp Boots of Dodge +6 Provide +6 dodge AC 90,000gp Boots of Dodge +8 Provide +8 dodge AC 160,000gp for even better create stackable belt of dodge to allow multiple item on the same slot you need to multiply the cost by 2 So a Belt of Dodge + 4 not space limitation Provide 4 Dodge AC 80,000gp for 160,000 you got 2 belt one over the other and easier to make due to the low enhancement. Also you can stack indefinitely until you hit the weight limit you can support. Cheezy but doable. Where are you getting these prices from? According to the PHB: dodge bonus: A bonus to Armor Class (and sometimes Reflex saves) resulting from physical skill at avoiding blows and other ill effects. Dodge bonuses are never granted by spells or magic items.
edwardlynxx 02-12-08, 06:38 PM	I say again: unnamed bonuses from the same source don't stack with themselves. Note that "same source" in D&D does not refer to the "same item" (or same caster), but rather the "same effect” (or “same spell”). The problem with your logic in this instance is that the unnamed bonuses are not coming from the same source, but rather from two seperate sources. You would gain a bonus from each weapon seperately, because each weapon is adding a seperate source of protection.
mvincent 02-12-08, 06:51 PM	The problem with your logic in this instance is that the unnamed bonuses are not coming from the same source, but rather from two seperate sources. You would gain a bonus from each weapon seperately, because each weapon is adding a seperate source of protection.I repeat: "same source" in D&D does not refer to the "same item" (or same caster), but rather the "same effect” (or “same spell”).
Toki_Wartooth 02-12-08, 06:57 PM	The problem with your logic in this instance is that the unnamed bonuses are not coming from the same source, but rather from two seperate sources.mvincent's logic is fine. It is your rules terminology knowledge that is lacking. Say for example you have 10 Lens' of Detection. They would not give you +50 to search checks because, even though they are separate items, the bonus would be from the "same source" aka the same effect.
mandos13 02-13-08, 02:40 AM	also some classes that add int mod to AC. i think bladesinger is one. most of those, you have to be in light or have no armor
Sunchilde 02-13-08, 11:52 AM	The best you could optimize your AC is by being an artificer and taking all the item creation feats from Player's Guide to Ebberon and Magical Artisan (Player's Guide to Faerun) every item you make now costs (depending on what your DM is like, seeing as technically you could attune it to yourself by making it only useable by your alignment and class which according to DMG would lower it by *(0,7)(0,9) but most DMs balk at this even though it is 'raw') anything from (0.5)(0.75)(0.75)=0.28125 of it's market price (+1/25 of MP in xp) so suddenly you have about 4x extra gold to spend. Then you make an item via the similar item rules and put it in an appropriate slot (I would think belt for physical enhancement AKA AC) and make an item with such bonuses (stacking with similar item as they all add AC) +5 deflection AC (50 000) +5 sacred AC (62 500*0.75) +5 exalted AC (62 500*0.5) +5 competence AC (62 500*0.5) +5 insight AC (62 500*0.5) +5 luck AC (62 500*0.5) +8 armour AC (64 000*0.5) =253875gp(0.5)(0.75)(0.75)=+/-rounding up 71 500 for a +38AC before any other items or DEX bonus. Hell - I even forgot natural and shield that you could slap on there as well for a +48 from one item. And not even an expensive item all things considered. Woohoo cheese.
Prime32 02-13-08, 03:47 PM	Try a Sorcerer 1/Monk 13/Abjurant Champion 5/Risen Martyr 1 with Vow of Poverty (and Vow of Peace if your DM can handle it) and the Ascetic Mage feat. Wield a quarterstaff with the Quick Staff feat and use Combat Expertise. Boost Cha as much as possible, and cast shield and mage armour. Take Practised Spellcaster while you're at it, so that your spells have CL19.
Silverthumb 02-13-08, 04:09 PM	I made a Dwarf Fighter 10/Dwarven Defender 10 once, and I can't remember all of the details, but here's what I remember: 10 Base +13 (+5 Interlocking Plate) +1 (Dex mod) +7 (+5 Heavy Steel Shield) +1 (Dodge feat) +2 (Greater Heavy Armor Optimization) +4 (Fighting Defensively w/ 5 ranks in Tumble) +4 (DD's AC bonus) +4 (Defensive Stance) +2 (Interlocking Plate ability, not moving +5 feet) +20 (Improved Combat Expertise) In one round, that'll give you 68 AC. Not really optimized(not the entire build) and not even close to the highest I've seen over on CO, though.
Prime32 02-13-08, 05:15 PM	Wouldn't you be better off using mithral mountain plate? Give that heavy shield some +5 defending shield spikes and take the 8th-level dwarf fighter substitution level from RoS for another +1 boost. Could you wield a Small quarterstaff in one hand with Quick Staff for the AC bonus?
ToastedAmphibian 02-13-08, 06:02 PM	Ok, Tifeling Monk/Montebank With Cadimene Monk feat, Mineral warrior template. 24 dex, 18 int Alter Ego as Xorn 10 Base 20 Nat (12 xorn + 3 Mineral Warrior +5 Amulet Nat Armor) +1 Size (Xorns are small) +10 Dex (18 + 2 Racial + 4 level +6 Item)(Optional +4 Inherient) +7 Int (18 + 2 Racial - 2 Template +6 Item)(Optional +4 Inherent) +8 Bracers of Armor +5 Deflection +1 Ion Stone Total: 62 (66 with wish)(70 with wish and Force Screen) You could also easily add combat expertise, fighting defensivly, and a defending weapon for another +15 You also have all-around-vision, 3 claws, a bite, and dr 8/adamantine and a burrow speed equal to 20 or 1/2 your highest movment rate. (Id have to actually put the build together to see what the monk speed bonus is. I dont have my books with me so im not sure of the prereqs for montebank and cadimene monk. With 9 levels of monk, burrow speed becomes 55ft in xorn form [20+30=50/2=25+30=55])
Silverthumb 02-13-08, 07:28 PM	Wouldn't you be better off using mithral mountain plate? Give that heavy shield some +5 defending shield spikes and take the 8th-level dwarf fighter substitution level from RoS for another +1 boost. Better off how?
ToastedAmphibian 02-13-08, 09:39 PM	Better off how? Considering the nature of this thread, im going to go out on a limb and say he ment that you would be better off AC wise...
Silverthumb 02-13-08, 09:46 PM	Considering the nature of this thread, im going to go out on a limb and say he ment that you would be better off AC wise... There's a lot to be said for someone making a point speaking for themselves. That said, you could buy Mithral Mountain Plate, or you can buy Mithral Interlocking Plate, which would allow for one extra point of AC from Dexterity bonus. One extra point isn't really all that better off, but I was hoping that Prime himself might have a better idea than snide remarks.
war_thog 02-13-08, 09:58 PM	Heres a question about defending. Ok so weve ascertained you cant do it twice. No worries. However.... do you have to actually attack with the defending weapon? Or can it just be there *say +x defending shield spikes*?
ToastedAmphibian 02-14-08, 12:52 AM	There's a lot to be said for someone making a point speaking for themselves. That said, you could buy Mithral Mountain Plate, or you can buy Mithral Interlocking Plate, which would allow for one extra point of AC from Dexterity bonus. One extra point isn't really all that better off, but I was hoping that Prime himself might have a better idea than snide remarks. I RESENT THAT! Snide remarks are ALWAYS THE BEST idea .... or mabey they are just my best idea....
tyrecian 02-14-08, 01:19 AM	However.... do you have to actually attack with the defending weapon? This question comes up every time the Cleric uses his defending weapon and casts :) (animated shield) From the SRD: As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon’s enhancement bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon, and the effect to AC lasts until his next turn. Although we usually don't worry too much about this sort of thing, it has also been mentioned in the past that someone could say quickdraw a weapon and use its defending properties and then drop the weapon and retain its qualities, but I would not rule that way most likely... I don't know about that though, anyone have any ideas? In that case, you could quickdraw two weapons and use them in that manner without having to take the hit to your attack rolls "I quickdraw my flaming collision longbow +2 and my defending short sword +3, i use the defending property on the SS, and drop it, I take a full round attacks at the enemy with my bow, I drop to prone to gain a bonus v/s the enemy's attack at range, and retrieve my SS."
bobotheguy 02-14-08, 01:41 AM	Ok, im not exactly sure of how this happened, Ill talk to the guy, but at 17th lvl, this guy was playing a lich with a 50 CHA! He also took the feat call Aesthtic Mage (or something similar) That let him add his CHA to his AC So, imagine doing what all you guys suggested, but with a 30 Base Not including Nat armor, Deflection, Dodge, Armor, and Misc mods
Tholas 02-14-08, 06:57 AM	Ok, im not exactly sure of how this happened, Ill talk to the guy, but at 17th lvl, this guy was playing a lich with a 50 CHA! He also took the feat call Aesthtic Mage (or something similar) That let him add his CHA to his AC Most probably it's the feat Ascetic Mage from Complete Adventurer. Any mage who takes the feat Improved Unarmed Strike might qualify, but by RAW he would not get the CHA to AC bonus as long as he does not have at least one level of monk. Now someone could argue that wearing a Monk's Belt would be enough ...