AC vs. Check Penalty [Archive] - Wizards Community

AC vs. Check Penalty [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
myusernameis
12-02-07, 06:07 AM Just a quick request for advice, if you will. I'm starting a first level Swordsage with the following skills (all at max ranks): Balance, Concentration, Hide, Iajutsu Focus, Jump, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Tumble. However, I find that I have a rather low ac as a first level character, 14 (+2 from leather armor +2 from dex) and I'm wondering your opinion, is it worth accepting a check penalty to add 1 or 2 points to my armor class?
runestar
12-02-07, 06:35 AM Can't really comment further without knowing what your game will be like. Will it be combat oriented, or will skill-based encounters see their fair share?
mathew99
12-02-07, 06:39 AM You want the AC if your a meelee character, otherwise, if your a caster/ranged fighter, you want hp instead of AC.
sapient
12-02-07, 11:52 AM In the begining, I'd say yes. Most of the physical skills, you can either take a retry if you fail or if the first attempt is critical, be creative in securing circumstance bonuses.

Also, if your party include a divine caster, it is a lot easier to cast a buffing spell that make up for the ACP out of a combat situation, when there are not so much pressure. If you accept a ACP of -1, a low level cleric can counter that easily.

Chain shirt would be a good option I think, if you can afford it. It will raise your AC by two compared to now, it will leave room for a slight raise in your dexterity (as from a Cat's grace) and it will only have an ACP of -2. (As soon as you can, get a masterwork chain shirt for the lower ACP.) So I think it would be good trade off.

Typically (in my experience at least) a low level monster still has +3 or +4 to hit. (A BAB of +1 and maybe some strength bonus.) So with your AC 14 it is more or less a 50/50 chance of getting hit. Increasing it by one or two is good. It will -statistically- take off about five or ten percent of the hits you'd otherwise take.

On the other hand, your skill checks will be impaired - and I can't really say anything about your chances there, because you didn't include so much information. But for Tumble, which is dex-based AND often used in combat situations, your ACP will be balanced by your dex-bonus (or will eliminate that bonus, if you view it that way). In the begining you don't have enough ranks to do anything fancy anyway, but not having those extra +2 from dex might hurt.

It'll limit your options a bit, but not for long (as soon as you can afford the MW chain shirt you're down to an ACP of -1, and have already raised your ranks a few notches I'd guess).

I'd take the extra AC. All things considered, your Hit Points is, more than anything else, a precious commodity. On low levels, you don't have that much of them. But as long as you have some, you can always try to solve what ever problem comes up.
myusernameis
12-02-07, 06:04 PM Thank you for the advice.
SpaceHopper
12-03-07, 08:47 AM What's your wisdom bonus? As a swordsage at level 2, you get wisdom added to AC, so if you've got a decent wisdom your AC will go up significantly.

For the short time you're at level 1, you can either 1) tough it out and wait for the wis bonus to kick in next level or 2) get some better armour at the expense of check penalties to give you a bit more survivability for that first level.

As soon as you can get masterwork armour, that'll drop your ACP by 1. Plu at level 2 you can put that vital 5th rank into jump, tumble, and balance - giving synergy bonuses to each other and making skill checks that little bit easier.

Personally, i'd get the best AC armour i could at level 1 and wear that, the increase in survivability will far outweigh the ACP.
Orenmir
12-03-07, 10:18 AM I would assume you'll be participating in a good amount of combat. So, AC will be more important than skill checks. That being said, I think 14 is an adequate AC at first level for a meleer (in a typical D&D setting).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
myusernameis 12-02-07, 06:07 AM	Just a quick request for advice, if you will. I'm starting a first level Swordsage with the following skills (all at max ranks): Balance, Concentration, Hide, Iajutsu Focus, Jump, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Tumble. However, I find that I have a rather low ac as a first level character, 14 (+2 from leather armor +2 from dex) and I'm wondering your opinion, is it worth accepting a check penalty to add 1 or 2 points to my armor class?
runestar 12-02-07, 06:35 AM	Can't really comment further without knowing what your game will be like. Will it be combat oriented, or will skill-based encounters see their fair share?
mathew99 12-02-07, 06:39 AM	You want the AC if your a meelee character, otherwise, if your a caster/ranged fighter, you want hp instead of AC.
sapient 12-02-07, 11:52 AM	In the begining, I'd say yes. Most of the physical skills, you can either take a retry if you fail or if the first attempt is critical, be creative in securing circumstance bonuses. Also, if your party include a divine caster, it is a lot easier to cast a buffing spell that make up for the ACP out of a combat situation, when there are not so much pressure. If you accept a ACP of -1, a low level cleric can counter that easily. Chain shirt would be a good option I think, if you can afford it. It will raise your AC by two compared to now, it will leave room for a slight raise in your dexterity (as from a Cat's grace) and it will only have an ACP of -2. (As soon as you can, get a masterwork chain shirt for the lower ACP.) So I think it would be good trade off. Typically (in my experience at least) a low level monster still has +3 or +4 to hit. (A BAB of +1 and maybe some strength bonus.) So with your AC 14 it is more or less a 50/50 chance of getting hit. Increasing it by one or two is good. It will -statistically- take off about five or ten percent of the hits you'd otherwise take. On the other hand, your skill checks will be impaired - and I can't really say anything about your chances there, because you didn't include so much information. But for Tumble, which is dex-based AND often used in combat situations, your ACP will be balanced by your dex-bonus (or will eliminate that bonus, if you view it that way). In the begining you don't have enough ranks to do anything fancy anyway, but not having those extra +2 from dex might hurt. It'll limit your options a bit, but not for long (as soon as you can afford the MW chain shirt you're down to an ACP of -1, and have already raised your ranks a few notches I'd guess). I'd take the extra AC. All things considered, your Hit Points is, more than anything else, a precious commodity. On low levels, you don't have that much of them. But as long as you have some, you can always try to solve what ever problem comes up.
myusernameis 12-02-07, 06:04 PM	Thank you for the advice.
SpaceHopper 12-03-07, 08:47 AM	What's your wisdom bonus? As a swordsage at level 2, you get wisdom added to AC, so if you've got a decent wisdom your AC will go up significantly. For the short time you're at level 1, you can either 1) tough it out and wait for the wis bonus to kick in next level or 2) get some better armour at the expense of check penalties to give you a bit more survivability for that first level. As soon as you can get masterwork armour, that'll drop your ACP by 1. Plu at level 2 you can put that vital 5th rank into jump, tumble, and balance - giving synergy bonuses to each other and making skill checks that little bit easier. Personally, i'd get the best AC armour i could at level 1 and wear that, the increase in survivability will far outweigh the ACP.
Orenmir 12-03-07, 10:18 AM	I would assume you'll be participating in a good amount of combat. So, AC will be more important than skill checks. That being said, I think 14 is an adequate AC at first level for a meleer (in a typical D&D setting).