Acid and Object Hardness [Archive] - Wizards Community

Acid and Object Hardness [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kaladon7779
08-20-07, 01:12 PM Does Acid by pass item hardness?
Devlonir
08-20-07, 01:16 PM From SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#tableSubstanceHardnessAn dHitPoints)

Energy Attacks
Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness.

So actually, the only good thing about acid and sonic is that they actually deal full damage to objects instead of just half damage or one-quarter damage.
Kaladon7779
08-20-07, 01:22 PM So Acid does full damage to the object but Hardness still applies, correct?
Devlonir
08-20-07, 01:34 PM It doesnt state hardness doesnt apply. But full damage instead of half or one-quarter from other energy types is still pretty neat isnt it?

Oh and of course, when fighting with your acidic / sonic weapon you add your acid or sonic damage to the damage to break hardness.
DarkPawn
08-20-07, 02:15 PM It doesnt state hardness doesnt apply. But full damage instead of half or one-quarter from other energy types is still pretty neat isnt it?

Oh and of course, when fighting with your acidic / sonic weapon you add your acid or sonic damage to the damage to break hardness.

Energy Attacks

Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness.

I think it is pretty clear what they are saying here. Acid and sonic does damage normally to objects like creatures. Do creatures add hardness after damage is done? It says nothing about applying hardness after damage is rolled...hence, you don't. It clearly says roll damage and apply it normally. I would deduce this means just subtract the appropriate hit points.

It clearly says you apply hardness to damage for electricity and fire, and the same for cold. There is no reason if hardness applied, they didn't simply say, roll damage normally then apply hardness. The reason they didn't is because you don't.
Devlonir
08-20-07, 02:21 PM Or it could just be a misprint that doesnt break the rules. Applying damage normally against objects means there is hardness to account for. That is how i read the rules.
tarkin
08-20-07, 02:33 PM More literalist logical mistakes. D20 is most definitely NOT written as well as you want it to be written. While what you said would be proper english, D20 rarely follows those rules.

More importantly, you ignored a cardinal rule:

Once a rule is establish, you do not have repeat that it must be followed. You have to say when it does NOT apply, not when it does apply.

This is further confirmed in the FAQ. It clearly states that Hardness DOES apply to acid.

When they say "normal" they meant use all the regular rules, including Hardness.
Kaladon7779
08-20-07, 03:01 PM This is further confirmed in the FAQ. It clearly states that Hardness DOES apply to acid.

Tarkin where did you find that FAQ?
Grumman
08-20-07, 03:07 PM It says nothing about applying hardness after damage is rolled...hence, you don't.
I'd just like to point out that this might have been omitted because you aren't predividing by 2 or 4, so the order doesn't matter, rather than because hardness doesn't apply. For the other energy types you have to specify whether it is (damage/2)-hardness, or (damage-hardness)/2.
DarkPawn
08-20-07, 03:22 PM I'd just like to point out that this might have been omitted because you aren't predividing by 2 or 4, so the order doesn't matter, rather than because hardness doesn't apply. For the other energy types you have to specify whether it is (damage/2)-hardness, or (damage-hardness)/2.

Tarkin is right, I checked the FAQ and it clearly outlines hardness would be applied. Assuming the FAQ is correct I concede my stance.
Kaladon7779
08-20-07, 03:22 PM Tarkin man, I found the FAQ bro so scratch my last post bro.

Page 69 of the Wizards D&D FAQ

Hardness applies to acid and sonic attacks. These
attacks deal normal damage both to creatures and to
objects, and thus would deal normal damage to an
animated object (less the effect of the hardness). You
would subtract 5 points for hardness from whatever
damage a Melf’s acid arrow spell deals to the
animated table in your example.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kaladon7779 08-20-07, 01:12 PM	Does Acid by pass item hardness?
Devlonir 08-20-07, 01:16 PM	From SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#tableSubstanceHardnessAn dHitPoints) Energy Attacks Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness. So actually, the only good thing about acid and sonic is that they actually deal full damage to objects instead of just half damage or one-quarter damage.
Kaladon7779 08-20-07, 01:22 PM	So Acid does full damage to the object but Hardness still applies, correct?
Devlonir 08-20-07, 01:34 PM	It doesnt state hardness doesnt apply. But full damage instead of half or one-quarter from other energy types is still pretty neat isnt it? Oh and of course, when fighting with your acidic / sonic weapon you add your acid or sonic damage to the damage to break hardness.
DarkPawn 08-20-07, 02:15 PM	It doesnt state hardness doesnt apply. But full damage instead of half or one-quarter from other energy types is still pretty neat isnt it? Oh and of course, when fighting with your acidic / sonic weapon you add your acid or sonic damage to the damage to break hardness. Energy Attacks Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness. I think it is pretty clear what they are saying here. Acid and sonic does damage normally to objects like creatures. Do creatures add hardness after damage is done? It says nothing about applying hardness after damage is rolled...hence, you don't. It clearly says roll damage and apply it normally. I would deduce this means just subtract the appropriate hit points. It clearly says you apply hardness to damage for electricity and fire, and the same for cold. There is no reason if hardness applied, they didn't simply say, roll damage normally then apply hardness. The reason they didn't is because you don't.
Devlonir 08-20-07, 02:21 PM	Or it could just be a misprint that doesnt break the rules. Applying damage normally against objects means there is hardness to account for. That is how i read the rules.
tarkin 08-20-07, 02:33 PM	More literalist logical mistakes. D20 is most definitely NOT written as well as you want it to be written. While what you said would be proper english, D20 rarely follows those rules. More importantly, you ignored a cardinal rule: Once a rule is establish, you do not have repeat that it must be followed. You have to say when it does NOT apply, not when it does apply. This is further confirmed in the FAQ. It clearly states that Hardness DOES apply to acid. When they say "normal" they meant use all the regular rules, including Hardness.
Kaladon7779 08-20-07, 03:01 PM	This is further confirmed in the FAQ. It clearly states that Hardness DOES apply to acid. Tarkin where did you find that FAQ?
Grumman 08-20-07, 03:07 PM	It says nothing about applying hardness after damage is rolled...hence, you don't. I'd just like to point out that this might have been omitted because you aren't predividing by 2 or 4, so the order doesn't matter, rather than because hardness doesn't apply. For the other energy types you have to specify whether it is (damage/2)-hardness, or (damage-hardness)/2.
DarkPawn 08-20-07, 03:22 PM	I'd just like to point out that this might have been omitted because you aren't predividing by 2 or 4, so the order doesn't matter, rather than because hardness doesn't apply. For the other energy types you have to specify whether it is (damage/2)-hardness, or (damage-hardness)/2. Tarkin is right, I checked the FAQ and it clearly outlines hardness would be applied. Assuming the FAQ is correct I concede my stance.
Kaladon7779 08-20-07, 03:22 PM	Tarkin man, I found the FAQ bro so scratch my last post bro. Page 69 of the Wizards D&D FAQ Hardness applies to acid and sonic attacks. These attacks deal normal damage both to creatures and to objects, and thus would deal normal damage to an animated object (less the effect of the hardness). You would subtract 5 points for hardness from whatever damage a Melf’s acid arrow spell deals to the animated table in your example.